Former Canucks: Players & Management (Willie Desjardins fired by Kings, COO Victor De Bonis to SEA)

[Zippgunn]

Are you saying Nilsson should split the net with Markstrom? Rotating starts? Otherwise, all you're saying is that Nilsson had some terrible starts as a backup goalie. Some goalies can't be backup goalies and come in cold and deliver a good start. Some goalies don't do well when they have competition for the #1 goalie spot. Cory Schneider wasn't like that. And for Demko's sake, I hope he isn't like that either. For Nilsson he didn't get a chance to be the man nor did he deserved the chance. If what Nilsson needed was given a chance to be the de facto #1 starter then it is what it is. The Canucks did not and could not have afforded that opportunity.

I'm saying that you have to a) play your backup goalie more than once every 10-14 days and b) give him some games he is likely to win. The Canucks have given almost all the easy home games to Marky and saved a lot of the challenging games for Nilsson. Saving Nilsson for the two Tampa games tells me that the Canucks are trying to coddle Marky and set up a situation where he isn't overly challenged and this at the expense of their backup. It has worked in that Marky is playing as well as he ever has in his career but it cost us a very capable backup and hastened the promotion of our heir apparent Demko who is now the guy sitting game after game which is doing his development no good whatsoever. Nilsson's deployment in Ottawa has been much more sensible and the result is he has played some good hockey (it helps that he doesn't have a tired team in front of him for almost every start as was the case in Vancouver) and almost certainly extended his career in the NHL so JB did him a solid by unloading him but I still think the team is poorer for his leaving.

 

[PG Canuck]

This sounds like a great interview already. Adrian Aucoin talks about Mogilny in this clip.

 

[President of Hockey]

Nilsson is having a pretty hot streak with the Sens. Save perct >. 930 as of now. Should've gotten a 5th rounder

 

[Paulinvancouver]

Nilsson is having a pretty hot streak with the Sens. Save perct >. 930 as of now. Should've gotten a 5th rounder

Yep. should have held on until the deadline and showcased him. Give him a few games to get that rhythm and drive the price up if you need to deal him. Big fan.

 

[Hit the post]

Yep. should have held on until the deadline and showcased him. Give him a few games to get that rhythm and drive the price up if you need to deal him. Big fan.

Ahh, much as I dislike Benning & Co., I'm not going to complain about the trade. Bigger issues to whine about.

 

[RandV]

Ahh, much as I dislike Benning & Co., I'm not going to complain about the trade. Bigger issues to whine about.

Until the Sens trade him at the deadline for a 2nd.

 

[mathonwy]

Until the Sens trade him at the deadline for a 2nd.

Which would be awesome.

 

[Melvin]

Until the Sens trade him at the deadline for a 2nd.

To the canucks.

 

[Jyrki21]

Nilsson is having a pretty hot streak with the Sens. Save perct >. 930 as of now. Should've gotten a 5th rounder

Yep, two more solid starts since I posted on the last page pointing out what a "magical" renaissance he's had simply by getting played a normal schedule.

If you simply reverse his starts with Markström, are Nilsson's stats in Vancouver really all that different from Jacob's? And that isn't a knock on Markström – I just think in the modern NHL there isn't nearly the variance top to bottom in goaltending that there used to be, and pretty much anyone can look good/bad.

 

[F A N]

I'm saying that you have to a) play your backup goalie more than once every 10-14 days and b) give him some games he is likely to win. The Canucks have given almost all the easy home games to Marky and saved a lot of the challenging games for Nilsson. Saving Nilsson for the two Tampa games tells me that the Canucks are trying to coddle Marky and set up a situation where he isn't overly challenged and this at the expense of their backup. It has worked in that Marky is playing as well as he ever has in his career but it cost us a very capable backup and hastened the promotion of our heir apparent Demko who is now the guy sitting game after game which is doing his development no good whatsoever. Nilsson's deployment in Ottawa has been much more sensible and the result is he has played some good hockey (it helps that he doesn't have a tired team in front of him for almost every start as was the case in Vancouver) and almost certainly extended his career in the NHL so JB did him a solid by unloading him but I still think the team is poorer for his leaving.

Complaints about the backup goalie getting the more difficult matchup has been prevalent during the Eddie Lack days (before that it was more or less wanting to see more of Schneider who had no issue coming in cold and delivering a solid performace). In that time, there have been 3 head coaches.

Nilsson has had plenty of opportunities in his almost 2 years here. The same thing happened to him in Edmonton. When he was given the #1 role he played very well then his game collapsed when he had to share the net. In his time here he was off to hot starts in consecutive seasons. His game then fell apart and couldn't be relied upon to start another game. Getting a start once every 10-14 days is nothing if you're the backup goalie and the schedule affords the team to play their #1 goalie. Maybe if Nilsson gets a chance to be the defacto #1 goalie he ends up establishing himself as a #1 goalie in the NHL, but he hasn't been given this opportunity and he hasn't earned it.

I think you're a bit confused about the whole Demko demotion. It wasn't Nilsson's play that "hastened the promotion" of Demko. It's that the Canucks needed and wanted to promote Demko so that he can further develop.

My point is that the Canucks need/want a backup to start in ~25-30 games. Depending on the schedule, starts can be few and far between. That's the role of the backup goalie and unless the backup goalie is your goaltender of the future you don't really worry about whether it's better for your backup goalie to get more frequent starts. Nilsson wasn't good in a backup role and his poor starts made him unreliable in that role.

 

[moog35]

Yep, two more solid starts since I posted on the last page pointing out what a "magical" renaissance he's had simply by getting played a normal schedule.

If you simply reverse his starts with Markström, are Nilsson's stats in Vancouver really all that different from Jacob's? And that isn't a knock on Markström – I just think in the modern NHL there isn't nearly the variance top to bottom in goaltending that there used to be, and pretty much anyone can look good/bad.

Nilsson sucks. He went on streaks like this with the Canucks then his game would completely fall apart. He’s done this his whole career

 

[Jay Cee]

We were showcasing Nilsson and we couldn't play him because he was terrible.

 

[MS]

Nilsson seems to be a guy who can’t handle the nature of being a backup and performs better when he can get in a rhythm with a consistent workload.

 

[Zippgunn]

Nilsson seems to be a guy who can’t handle the nature of being a backup and performs better when he can get in a rhythm with a consistent workload.

...like almost every goalie ever. Funny, seems like he can handle being a backup for the worst team in the league now that he gets regular starts. Looks like he might even usurp Anderson. Meanwhile we're a groin pull away from having a WHLer as our #1 goalie. Brilliant management and/or coaching...

 

[Jyrki21]

Nilsson sucks. He went on streaks like this with the Canucks then his game would completely fall apart. He’s done this his whole career

"Player sucks because he has long stretches of good play, but not 100% of the time" seems like a weak position.

Nilsson seems to be a guy who can’t handle the nature of being a backup and performs better when he can get in a rhythm with a consistent workload.

I mean, you would think the solution here would simply have been to play him more... this isn't particular to the Canucks, of course. The need to anoint "the number one guy" and then overplay him while shielding him from all criticism/challenge/adversity seems to be common with coaches (at least those who have passed through Vancouver), but also seems responsible for some self-fulfilling prophecies.

 

[The Stig]

...like almost every goalie ever. Funny, seems like he can handle being a backup for the worst team in the league now that he gets regular starts. Looks like he might even usurp Anderson. Meanwhile we're a groin pull away from having a WHLer as our #1 goalie. Brilliant management and/or coaching...

You're digging to find something to blame management for. Nilsson was moved to make room for Demko. It was time. This is how literally every team develops a young goalie. A few years back, under Gillis, we were a groin pull away from having Curtis Sandford, Andrew Raycroft, or Dany Saborin as a starter. And that was when we were good!

 

[Zippgunn]

You're digging to find something to blame management for. Nilsson was moved to make room for Demko. It was time. This is how literally every team develops a young goalie. A few years back, under Gillis, we were a groin pull away from having Curtis Sandford, Andrew Raycroft, or Dany Saborin as a starter. And that was when we were good!

All of those goalies were veterans of the NHL not kids who have never played an NHL game. As for Demko he played ONE game for us before getting hurt. It was obvious that he wasn't going to get much more action than Nilsson was so my question is why bring him up just to sit him when he NEEDS TO PLAY. Nilsson is proving that this organization hasn't got a clue how to rotate their goalies; people here dissing him are just choked that he has almost instantly shown that he is a far better goalie than he looked like here when he was being wasted and that we threw him away for nothing because our coach is a fool.

 

[The Stig]

All of those goalies were veterans of the NHL not kids who have never played an NHL game. As for Demko he played ONE game for us before getting hurt. It was obvious that he wasn't going to get much more action than Nilsson was so my question is why bring him up just to sit him when he NEEDS TO PLAY. Nilsson is proving that this organization hasn't got a clue how to rotate their goalies; people here dissing him are just choked that he has almost instantly shown that he is a far better goalie than he looked like here when he was being wasted and that we threw him away for nothing because our coach is a fool.

Okay fine. Schneider and Lack. Both young goalies that were in Demkos shoes. Backing up a goalie that played an insane workload.

 

[Addison Rae]

Nillson is inconsistent garbage.

 

[Hit the post]

You're digging to find something to blame management for. Nilsson was moved to make room for Demko. It was time. This is how literally every team develops a young goalie. A few years back, under Gillis, we were a groin pull away from having Curtis Sandford, Andrew Raycroft, or Dany Saborin as a starter. And that was when we were good!

Andrew Raycroft actually didn't play all that badly for us (granted I sure as heck didn't want him as our starter)...(got him "free" via free agency).



Dany Saborin was never Canuck property under Gilligan. Maybe you're thinking of Labarbera? We had Lab for one season (and had 4 or 5 reasonable seasons as a backup after he left the Canucks). My memory is kind of hazy but I think he got Lab for a 7th round pick because one (or both) Luongo or Sanfrod was hurt.

 

[Zippgunn]

Nillson is inconsistent garbage.

Consistent enough to have won the WHC last year and be voted best goaltender. Of course that was when he got a chance to play regularly, like he is now in Ottawa and where he is once again thriving. Vancouver did it's goalie graveyard thing to him but he survived it. Not like, say, Peter Skudra...

 

[Addison Rae]

Consistent enough to have won the WHC last year and be voted best goaltender. Of course that was when he got a chance to play regularly, like he is now in Ottawa and where he is once again thriving. Vancouver did it's goalie graveyard thing to him but he survived it. Not like, say, Petr Skudra...

Do you just lurk around and come out to defend garbage players and coach's?

He was absolutely terrible in Edmonton and New York, went to a garbage Buffalo team the bled shots which in effect boosted his save percent% then went back to being below average junk in Vancouver.

But yeah, 6 game tournament, all other evidence.

 

[Zippgunn]

Do you just lurk around and come out to defend garbage players and coach's?

He was absolutely terrible in Edmonton and New York, went to a garbage Buffalo team the bled shots which in effect boosted his save percent% then went back to being below average junk in Vancouver.

But yeah, 6 game tournament, all other evidence.

I love this board! So Nillson is a "garbage player"? Let's see 127 career games, almost all of which were as a backup, .908 career save % 13 games under .500. Meanwhile Marky is at 209 games, 14 games under .500 and a .908 save % and this with the benefit of regular work since he's been a #1 for awhile now. Is he garbage also in your opinion? I'm betting that if I tell you that Luongo was a terrible big game goalie you bring up the Olympics...

 

[Addison Rae]

I love this board! So Nillson is a "garbage player"? Let's see 127 career games, almost all of which were as a backup, .908 career save % 13 games under .500. Meanwhile Marky is at 209 games, 14 games under .500 and a .908 save % and this with the benefit of regular work since he's been a #1 for awhile now. Is he garbage also in your opinion? I'm betting that if I tell you that Luongo was a terrible big game goalie you bring up the Olympics...

Uh, yeah let's just look at career numbers without context. Markstrom was a lost case in Florida and his game was pretty much destroyed and trending towards being one of the biggest goaltending busts in the past 10 years.

His game was totally reconstructed here under Rollie and in his last ~120 games as a starter has been ~.912 and is having the best year of his career.

Nilsson played ~40 games in the system and posted a .900 save%.

You can't be serious with this, can you?

 

[Zippgunn]

Uh, yeah let's just look at career numbers without context. Markstrom was a lost case in Florida and his game was pretty much destroyed and trending towards being one of the biggest goaltending busts in the past 10 years.

His game was totally reconstructed here under Rollie and in his last ~120 games as a starter has been ~.912 and is having the best year of his career.

Nilsson played ~40 games in the system and posted a .900 save%.

You can't be serious with this, can you?

It is you that doesn't get my point. Both are good goalies and ironically both are probably playing the best hockey of their careers right now. Markstrom is likely benefiting from the relentless coddling he has received; up until the last 25 games or so he was distinctly ordinary with a terrible penchant for bad goals. To do this the team had to basically abandon Nilsson to the wolves which hurt his game immeasurably (as it would hut anyone's game) and once he got away from that (by getting traded to a team that would actually play him halfways regularly) he almost instantly re-established himself as a good goalie. So it's been win win for these two but the cost to the Canucks is that they had to give up on one of them and, as always happens it seems, injuries have now left us a bit thin in the net. My problem is that we wasted a valuable asset which would be coming in handy right now and we got almost nothing for him all because our coach didn't want to play his favoured goalie in tough games against good teams. I hope we make the playoffs if only to see how Marky fares then...