Forbes Magazine report on the value of NHL franchises

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by BlueAndWhite, Nov 11, 2005.

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  1. BlueAndWhite

    BlueAndWhite Registered User

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    http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1131663013162&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064

    The Forbes magazine recently released it's report on the estimated value of each NHL franchise as well as their operating profits over the last few years.

    Here are some highlights from the Toronto Star article:

    There was a chart accompanying the article in this morning's paper but it's not available online.

    IIRC, here are some key points from the chart:

    - the Hurricanes were the least valuable franchise worth about 65 million USD.
    - the St. Louis Blues had the largest operating loss over the last few (5) years at 91 million USD
    - the Florida Panthers had the biggest decrease in franchise value at -26%.
    - the New Jersey Devils have the highest price to attend games at 310 USD.*
    - the Carolina Hurricanes are the cheapest to attend games at 171 USD.*
    - the New York Rangers have the most lucrative media revenues worth 28 million USD.
    - the Nashville Predators have the least lucrative media revenues at 11 million USD.
    - the Toronto Maple Leafs have the most valuable "brand" at 41 million USD.
    - the Edmonton Oilers have the least valuable "brand" at 11 million USD.
    - the best managed teams in order are: Ottawa, New Jersey, Tampa**
    - the worst managed teams in order are: NYR, Washington and Anahiem.**\

    * The "price" of attending a game includes tickets, concessions, merchandise and parking for a family of four.

    ** The best/worst managed score is based on a wins per player cost (over the past five season) with playoff wins counting as double.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2005
  2. The Mars Volchenkov

    The Mars Volchenkov Registered User

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    Somewhat similar.

    http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Ottawa/2005/11/11/1302538-sun.html

     
  3. Fugu

    Fugu Administrator

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    Misleading on the best/worst management...

    Of course all the young teams that were able to draft TOP talent for several years and were guaranteed to keep that talent until the age of 31 under the old CBA would skew this. How can you compare what they were paying to what teams had to pay for mature talent?

    Fastforward 5-10 years [under the old CBA conditions] and those teams would be in the same boat as the Colorado's and Toronto's of the world. It was the life cycle of the NHL teams, not that these guys were exceptional managers.
     
  4. With NJ's current arena, no way should they be charging that much.
     
  5. Fugu

    Fugu Administrator

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    The Forbes article can be found here .

    (Registration is required.)

    Thanks for the other links.
     
  6. BlueAndWhite

    BlueAndWhite Registered User

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    It's funny because the online Forbes article has barely any mention of any specific teams.

    It's barely two paragraphs long.
     
  7. Fugu

    Fugu Administrator

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    You have to follow through on their little slide shows, kind of the left or right of the main article. The blurb on the Leafs franchise value, and some other stats are buried in the slide shows. I wonder if there is more in the subscription version?
     
  8. BlueAndWhite

    BlueAndWhite Registered User

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    I am using a subscription account right now. Do I feel like a fool. With all their banners for other companies, I barely noticed the one for the full coverage.
     
  9. RingWraith

    RingWraith Registered User

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    From the article:

    Ozanian predicted the viability of at least two NHL franchises will become a relevant topic very soon.

    "The two places where I think there will not be teams in two years are Carolina and Atlanta," Ozanian said, "and I still need more convincing in Florida and Nashville."

    Nyah nyah.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a full blown research document on the value of NHL teams and their profitability. This kind of economic statistical crap makes me horny.
     
  10. Hasbro

    Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

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    Did Oznian also say one would go to Houston?
     
  11. Squiddy*

    Squiddy* Registered User

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    Atlanta??? They draw better than the Atlanta Hawks. Averaging 15,865 people for a team that has been playing rather crappy. If this team was undefeated or something that place would be sold out. It's a bandwagon city, but it is kind of weird that they still draw 15,000 people for a hockey game when they don't even totally bandwagon the Braves until they get to the playoffs. Ohwell..

    Carolina is pretty much a bandwagon place too.. I need not to mention one city in that list that I agree with... because then a bunch of people will start to flame me.
     
  12. StevenintheATL

    StevenintheATL Registered User

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    Hell, the Gwinnett Gladiators can out draw the Hawks. Calling Atlanta a bandwagon city is a bit off-base. The population growth in the Metro Atlanta area over the last 25 years came from folks from other parts of the country (especially from the Northeast), and the number of natives (of which I am one) who have stayed in the area has dropped. These transplants brought with them their team loyalities, and over time, they've begun to support the local teams except when they're playing the team from back home. So it's not uncommon to see from a quarter to a half of a venue decked out in Pittsburgh, Philly, Boston/New England, or New York colors when a team from those cities plays in Atlanta. At one point a few years ago, a Thrashers home game against the Bruins, Isles, Rangers, Flyers, Pens, or Devils looked more like a road game based on the amount of folks wearing the other teams' jersey.
     
  13. Squiddy*

    Squiddy* Registered User

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    I don't know... they were facing the Lighting last night and had a pretty good crowd full of thrashers fans... I doubt there are Hardcore hockey transplants from florida in Atlanta...
     
  14. se7en*

    se7en* Guest

    "least valuable brand", what the hell does that mean?
     
  15. GSC2k2*

    GSC2k2* Guest

    Another typical article from Forbes. They guess at franchise values, without a single piece of data. Anyone with a scintilla of business sense has to laugh - hard - at this entire exercise.
     
  16. btn

    btn Gone Hollywood

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    Over 26,000 people watched hockey in the Atlanta area last night. The Thrashers had 15k, and the ECHL team in Gwinett county had 11k.
     
  17. RedSoxNation

    RedSoxNation Registered User

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    Does anyone know where the link is to the complete list of all teams?
     
  18. RangerBoy

    RangerBoy TRUST THE PROCESS

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  19. Dr Love

    Dr Love Registered User

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    They don't bandwagon the Braves in the playoffs.

    I love this statement:

    Ozanian predicted the viability of at least two NHL franchises will become a relevant topic very soon.

    "The two places where I think there will not be teams in two years are Carolina and Atlanta," Ozanian said


    I guess he missed the part where the Thrashers were bought as a package deal only two years ago with the Hawks and Phillips Arena, and that 1) Atlanta Spirit wouldn't turn a profit worth selling for and 2) they're not going to sell them individually because no one is going to buy the Hawks.
     
  20. Fugu

    Fugu Administrator

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    Not Atlanta, but there is an ICU list....

    The NHL needs Atlanta to succeed. The Queen of the South. With the growth and increasingly global feel to the city, any major sports league that wants to consider itself "major" should do all it can to make an NHL team there not only survive, but prosper.


    And as several posters have noted, the Thrashers are drawing fans at an acceptable rate compared to many other NHL teams (like Chicago, St. Louis, the Isles, Anaheim and Devils!!!), currently at number 20 overall for attendance (84.3% of capacity). Imagine if they actually started winning a few more games.
     
    Last edited by moderator : Nov 12, 2005
  21. Fugu

    Fugu Administrator

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    The Ducks were sold for $75 million, which included facilities. The prospect for the Blues just bowed out, saying $150 million was too much- this for an established NHL franchise. Regardless of what figures Forbes puts forth, there has been a decline in the franchise value of some teams. On the other hand, the Leafs allegedly have appreciated in value. It would be nice to see what the Wings, Bruins or Rangers would garner if they ever were put on the market.
     
    Last edited by moderator : Nov 12, 2005
  22. StevenintheATL

    StevenintheATL Registered User

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    11K for the Glads last night even with 5 Gwinnett H.S. football teams playing in the playoffs last night (7 if you throw the 2 Hall County teams in as well since that area is nearby), with the Thrash playing as well, that's impressive.
     
  23. Squiddy*

    Squiddy* Registered User

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    Atlanta is not the average souther market for hockey... They had the flames who drew well before they moved and there are just a lot of people that appreciate hockey down there. Their sports radio station give them good exposure and the location of the arena is really good. Like a early post says.. there are a lot of transplants and it's a fairly young growing metropolis just like Phoenix.
     
  24. StevenintheATL

    StevenintheATL Registered User

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    :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

    680 The Fan is a joke. They have 8 hours of local sports talk a day outside of game broadcasts (790 13 hours), and the Thrashers may get an average 15 minutes a day. Back when 790 The Zone was the Thrashers' broadcast home, they covered the team quite well (I guess because the guys running it and most of the talent are transplants from up north). When the Heatley trade went down, the boys at 790 covered it better than 680 (hell, the morning show on one of the FM stations covered it better than 680) The main reason why 680 got the contract was because they didn't have any other contracts that would confict with Thrashers games (790 had gotten the GT contract and as part of the deal Tech games would take priority over Thrashers games.) plus they have a more powerful signal at night.
     
  25. Squiddy*

    Squiddy* Registered User

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    If you think that 680 is a joke... they do a heckkkkkkk of a better job than WGFX.. I've heard Buck and Kincade talk about the thrashers wayyyy more than anyone on WGFX unless it is the predators pre/post.
     
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