MHA
Registered User
What's wrong with a salary cap and competitive balance. Why is that bad for hockey?
Nothing ..MHA said:What's wrong with a salary cap and competitive balance. Why is that bad for hockey?
ya the nfl is great - tell that to abc - lousy teams by the number - parody sucks -Flyguy_1ca said:How does setting the cap so that all 30 teams can spend at least a similar amount hurt competitive balance? I'm a little lost on that one. Some teams will suck because they're managed bad...but that's how sport is supposed to be. Money just ruins it...it strips all the fun out of it. That's why the NFL is so great. All teams if managed well, can afford to sign good players.
That's a great post .. and explains the concept of a union in negotiations very well, as to their intent .sirkraut_82 said:clearly, even before the CBA cloud loomed, goodenow realized that there were going to have to be major changes to realign the economics of the sport. he probably knew it would require a salary cap, just as 2/3 of the 'Big 3' have.
i don't think the brass of the PA is against competitive balance, by definition. it's a nice notion that any team can draft well, sign some free agents and be very competitive, like the NFL. no one likes the evil in baseball that small-market teams not only have zero chance of winning the world series but aren't even going to come close to making the playoffs (pirates, royals, devil rays, etc) solely because of what type of market they're in.
but the function of the players association is to group the players together and try to impose maximum leverage, in order to extend the monies they'd receive. it's not really goodenow's business to see that the league is balanced and perfectly competitive. it's his job to set up the most favorable conditions for his employers (the players) to get the most $$ possible from owners, whether it comes from entry contracts, qualifying offers, arbitration or unrestricted free agency.
and to tie in what i orginally said, the player's association has made major concessions on all those points from the very beginning. the devil is in the details of just how much the players are going to have to conceded. the head of any union is going to be against a cap mandating how much employers can pay their employees because that automatically sets a limit on how much money can be earned.
whether these concepts are right, wrong, unethical is another issue. but that's what it all boils down to.
19nazzy said:Why should good teams with strong management and a dedication to winning be hindered because some owners are either inept or don't want to spend money to win?
Is it Colorado's/Detroit's/Toronto's fault they don't have the money?Flyguy_1ca said:what about a team like Edmonton? They're not managed poorly..they're not inept...they simply don't have the revenue stream to spend with detroit and philly etc....should they be left to become a farm team for the "have" teams in the league? I guess that depends on your opinion.
19nazzy said:There is no "idiot proof system". There will always be holes in an agreement.
19nazzy said:Is it Colorado's/Detroit's/Toronto's fault they don't have the money?
Nope.Flyguy_1ca said:No it's not, so you're saying Edmonton should be a farm team for the Detroits of the league?
19nazzy said:Nope.
But they shouldn't be the reason to turn this league upside down. This is just my personal opinion on these things. I just prefer to let the good teams win and have the crappy teams lose without having things to be evened out. Owners that are willing to spend, and that have money shouldn't be penalized because other teams can't afford to do something.
How balanced do you think it will be?Flyguy_1ca said:Interesting, my viewpoint couldn't be more opposite. I'm a Flyer fan (see my tag I think turning the league upside down over this issue is not only worthwhile, it's absolutely needed. I think having an even playing field financially so that the sport is all about how teams are managed would make hockey and any sport for that matter 100 times better. But as you say, I guess it's just as personaly preference.
Why do you need 30 teams ??..Flyguy_1ca said:Interesting, my viewpoint couldn't be more opposite. I'm a Flyer fan (see my tag I think turning the league upside down over this issue is not only worthwhile, it's absolutely needed. I think having an even playing field financially so that the sport is all about how teams are managed would make hockey and any sport for that matter 100 times better. But as you say, I guess it's just as personaly preference.
Great post .The Messenger said:Why do you need 30 teams ..
Pick your 20 strongest markets and teams and lets play .. Why turn the league upside down for some markets to try to keep them alive ??
Those remaining teams would have better talent higher skill level, be more entertaining almost equivalent to the World Cup ..
The NHL is one big CYA for Bettman by blaming the players .. The league is so watered down an non-entertaining that poker ratings are double that or hockey on ESPN ..
Tearing down the strong teams for the sake of the weak is counter productive to success IMO .. Good Businessmen use the strengths of profitable ones to carry the rest and remove the biggest bleeders ..
The Bain group that wants to buy the NHL said it would immediately shut down 6-8 teams .. Why do they make that recommendation and Bettman wants to turn the NHL upside down and inside out and build around those very teams that a 4 bil offer would cut out like it was a cancer ..
19nazzy said:How balanced do you think it will be?
Just go by the rumoured deal for now, since its all we have to go on.
Well look at the NFL, all the teams are relatively equal, but you have the Patriots dynasty happening right now. You will always have those top tier teams no matter what the circumstances are. I'll bet that we still see, Detroit/New Jersey/Colorado and the teams that are upper echalon now, continue to win the cup consistentlyFlyguy_1ca said:With a cap floor at around 24 and a ceiling at around 37 million I think that would be okay. Certainly much better than the difference between teams like Nashville and Detroit last season. I'm not too sure what the difference was exactly, but it was close to 50 million I think. I just don't see how that would be good for the league.
I don't think it's terrible for the Mike Illitch either, as he will likely make more money under this type of system even with revenue sharing. The game simply starts becoming more about management and less about how much money a team can afford to spend.
You keep mentioning this, who would force them to be farm teams? Something I haven't heard?Flyguy_1ca said:Oh, I have no problem with contraction. Heck, I think it's a wondeful idea! Get rid of Nashville, Carolina, Florida etc etc...I totally agree. But don't keep them around and force them to be farm teams. No good/fun comes from that. But if you want to contract them, by all means!
19nazzy said:Well look at the NFL, all the teams are relatively equal, but you have the Patriots dynasty happening right now. You will always have those top tier teams no matter what the circumstances are. I'll bet that we still see, Detroit/New Jersey/Colorado and the teams that are upper echalon now, continue to win the cup consistently
19nazzy said:Well look at the NFL, all the teams are relatively equal, but you have the Patriots dynasty happening right now. You will always have those top tier teams no matter what the circumstances are. I'll bet that we still see, Detroit/New Jersey/Colorado and the teams that are upper echalon now, continue to win the cup consistently
19nazzy said:You keep mentioning this, who would force them to be farm teams? Something I haven't heard?
The old CBA was forcing them to be Farm teams....The oilers amongst other teams (calgary with Iginla was about to happen) get players and once they get good they're traded away because they can no longer afford to keep them. Mike Comrie is an example...Kevin Lowe said the Oilers couldn't afford to pay him what he wanted so off to Philly he went. Essentially making them a feeder team for the rich. They also never land free agents like Jeremy Roenick etc...for the same reason...not enough green backs.