For Ovechkin´s lovers...

[stockwizard*]

No kidding. This article was rather of a contrast to everything else Ovechkin has done and said for the last two years. There are a lot of things they could twist. They are trying to make him into a Kovalchuk when he's not.

Of course he's no Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk has twice the talent and offensive skills.

 

[kovalchuk17atl]

Of course he's no Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk has twice the talent and offensive skills.

:lol I'd have to agree there, even if Ovy is a more complete package.

 

[Jacob]

No he was not.

You were there?

 

[Gumby]

Of course he's no Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk has twice the talent and offensive skills.

You just can't pass up an oppotunity to blast AO can you?

 

[Epsilon]

There really isn't any way to tell, but from all accounts i've heard that Ovechkin is a team first player. I'm not going to swift in the middle of the current because he's going to Washington. I'm a fan of watching good hockey players play. I would love it if Ovechkin came out with a lot better attitude than other Russian wunderkids that will remain nameless.

This is obviously a veiled shot at Kovalchuk, and a poor one at that. I guess "hate your enemies, love your teammates, and play like there's no tomorrow" is what counts for a "bad attitude" these days. Guys like Gordie Howe and Rocket Richard would probably be disgusted at the p***yfication of fans and players and the loser frame of mind that passes for a "good attitude" these days.

 

[Astaroth]

No kidding. This article was rather of a contrast to everything else Ovechkin has done and said for the last two years. There are a lot of things they could twist. They are trying to make him into a Kovalchuk when he's not.

See I have a real problem with this. It seems that every Ovechkin lover feels the need to degrade Kovalchuk at every turn to prop up Ovechkin. They point out how AO scored more points in exhibition games or in a tournament than Ilya to justify how AO is gonna be greater than Kovalchuk. But the fact of the matter is that those arguments are readily thin when one just looks at Kovalchuk's acheivements this season in the Nhl without Heatly (They aren't even linemates) for the majority of the season. So then they attack his attitude and say how cocky and classless he is. I may not be Kovalchuk's biggest fan but what the man brings on the ice is not debatable; he scores, plays to win and he is 100% behind his teammates. And cockyness is what great and memorable players are made of. HIs coach compared his desire to win only second to Patrick Roy. That should tell you the worth of his character.

 

[Telperiën]

No kidding. This article was rather of a contrast to everything else Ovechkin has done and said for the last two years. There are a lot of things they could twist. They are trying to make him into a Kovalchuk when he's not.

You just can't avoid using the K-word in a negative manner, can you? Though I suppose many young players would love to be associated with the K-word.

 

[AJ1982]

I think that espn writer just grabbed some articles out of the RLR. Drama sells I suppose.

 

[Foppa_Rules]

I'm not saying Ovechkin is better than Kovalchuk in terms of talent--he is not. Kovalchuk IMO has more offensive talent by quite a bit. I do think that Ovechkin is more complete.

No one can deny that Kovalchuk is a bit...arrogant. Pumps his fist while putting the puck in the net one-handed. Uses an illegal stick at any available opportunity. Gets called for using an illegal stick, comes out of the box afetr the penalty, grabs a teammates stick, scores, and skates by the oposing team's bench pretending to check his stick for faults. Then he later says he was cleaning the snow off it.

I meant that Ovechkin's ATTITUDE is different from Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk is more talented offensively, but Ovechkin is more complete and much more mature on and off the ice.

 

[EroCaps]

I'm not saying Ovechkin is better than Kovalchuk in terms of talent--he is not. Kovalchuk IMO has more offensive talent by quite a bit. I do think that Ovechkin is more complete.

No one can deny that Kovalchuk is a bit...arrogant. Pumps his fist while putting the puck in the net one-handed. Uses an illegal stick at any available opportunity. Gets called for using an illegal stick, comes out of the box afetr the penalty, grabs a teammates stick, scores, and skates by the oposing team's bench pretending to check his stick for faults. Then he later says he was cleaning the snow off it.

I meant that Ovechkin's ATTITUDE is different from Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk is more talented offensively, but Ovechkin is more complete and much more mature on and off the ice.

More offensive talent by quite a bit? I'd say the margin if small if it exists at all.

 

[Astaroth]

I'm not saying Ovechkin is better than Kovalchuk in terms of talent--he is not. Kovalchuk IMO has more offensive talent by quite a bit. I do think that Ovechkin is more complete.

No one can deny that Kovalchuk is a bit...arrogant. Pumps his fist while putting the puck in the net one-handed. Uses an illegal stick at any available opportunity. Gets called for using an illegal stick, comes out of the box afetr the penalty, grabs a teammates stick, scores, and skates by the oposing team's bench pretending to check his stick for faults. Then he later says he was cleaning the snow off it.

I meant that Ovechkin's ATTITUDE is different from Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk is more talented offensively, but Ovechkin is more complete and much more mature on and off the ice.

That's fine by me but maturity is quite ... ambiguous. I don't necessarily think that being a good boy and humble is being mature. I think that it is more about realizing your faults and overcoming them. Ilya was benched several times for either defensive laspes or staying too long on the ice I believe but each time he has come back and played a better game. A testament to that is that he was used on the PK and given defensemen-like minutes. He rose up to be the leader on a team that had been devastated by the Heatly and Snydner tragedy and when Atlanta was in the slump, he got hot. If that doesn't tell you something favorable about his character well then... Kovalchuk is very very flashy. You think it's arrogant and quite a few other people think so too. It's your perrogative but that air of cockyness is trait of a superstar. He is loved by his teammates, disliked or even hated by the opposition. If the NHL had any idea how to market the sport, they would use Ilya non-stop. That being said, I must say I enjoy his antics immensely, he adds excitement in a sport that has been in a slump since 1994. He is the definition of win at any cost, that I cannot but respect. The example of him scoring the goal with his teammates' stick and then showin' up the opposition is pure poetry. The sport needs this kind of ... lack of a better word, entertainement.

EroCap you say that the talent between the two is nearly non-existent, offensively that is. I have only seen Ovechkin in the odd games in tournaments (WJC,WC) and he looks good. I have never seen him live in person so I don't claim to be able to be the definite judge on him but I'll tell you this; He doesn't have the aura of dominance of a superstar. He plays good, shows great work ethic and looks like he belongs. However when I see Kovalchuk play... wow is the word. I only seen him live in Mtl but he is truly a beast. He dominates even when he doesn't produce. He goes from end to end (back and forth, he does backcheck alot if it isn't stellar stuff) and each time he's on the ice; you're on the edge of your seat waiting for somehting to happen. I think he's just that good. I don't see anything amazing in Ovechkin from what I have seen. Scouts says he's the best thing to come since Mario; everyone is the best thing since Mario. He might have the potential to outstrip or equal Ilya but until he produces like Ilya at the NHL level, it's all potential. To tell you how 1st picks are hyped and that they are all seen as the second coming of the Messiah and how reality is harsh. Let's throw some names around since 1990; Owen Nolan, great Career cut short by injuries but never even close to Mario. 1991; Eric Lindros, what he could have been if not for the concussions and lockouts. 1992;It was a defenseman. 1993; Alexandre Daigle, what a bust, he's decent now but no superstar. 1994;defenseman. 1995;defenseman. 1996; defenseman. 1997; Big Joey, he's developed into a strong case for superstardom though his vanishing act in the playoffs this year and his team not leaving the first-round for the last three years is not helping him. 1998; Vinnie the Prince, he had problems with his first year and then with the coach but he has proven he can play with the elite and well. A breakout year next season (More than his career high 80 points) would cement his superstar status. He is the first forward first pick to hoist the cup in this era. 1999;Patrik Stefan, he's evolved into a decent third-line checking forward. Nowhere near elite. 2000; goalie, Heatley was second overall, he's proving to be worth it. 2001; Kovalchuk, same thing as heately. 2002; Rick Nash, he can score, can he do anything else? One-dimensional as hell. And a terrible plus minus but the potential is there. 2003; goalie. So being the landed first pick doesn't mean you're going to be a guaranteed superstar and franchise player.

 

[stardog]

I'm not saying Ovechkin is better than Kovalchuk in terms of talent--he is not. Kovalchuk IMO has more offensive talent by quite a bit. I do think that Ovechkin is more complete.

No one can deny that Kovalchuk is a bit...arrogant. Pumps his fist while putting the puck in the net one-handed. Uses an illegal stick at any available opportunity. Gets called for using an illegal stick, comes out of the box afetr the penalty, grabs a teammates stick, scores, and skates by the oposing team's bench pretending to check his stick for faults. Then he later says he was cleaning the snow off it.

I meant that Ovechkin's ATTITUDE is different from Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk is more talented offensively, but Ovechkin is more complete and much more mature on and off the ice.

Because you know the both of them so very well.

 

[EroCaps]

That's fine by me but maturity is quite ... ambiguous. I don't necessarily think that being a good boy and humble is being mature. I think that it is more about realizing your faults and overcoming them. Ilya was benched several times for either defensive laspes or staying too long on the ice I believe but each time he has come back and played a better game. A testament to that is that he was used on the PK and given defensemen-like minutes. He rose up to be the leader on a team that had been devastated by the Heatly and Snydner tragedy and when Atlanta was in the slump, he got hot. If that doesn't tell you something favorable about his character well then... Kovalchuk is very very flashy. You think it's arrogant and quite a few other people think so too. It's your perrogative but that air of cockyness is trait of a superstar. He is loved by his teammates, disliked or even hated by the opposition. If the NHL had any idea how to market the sport, they would use Ilya non-stop. That being said, I must say I enjoy his antics immensely, he adds excitement in a sport that has been in a slump since 1994. He is the definition of win at any cost, that I cannot but respect. The example of him scoring the goal with his teammates' stick and then showin' up the opposition is pure poetry. The sport needs this kind of ... lack of a better word, entertainement.

EroCap you say that the talent between the two is nearly non-existent, offensively that is. I have only seen Ovechkin in the odd games in tournaments (WJC,WC) and he looks good. I have never seen him live in person so I don't claim to be able to be the definite judge on him but I'll tell you this; He doesn't have the aura of dominance of a superstar. He plays good, shows great work ethic and looks like he belongs. However when I see Kovalchuk play... wow is the word. I only seen him live in Mtl but he is truly a beast. He dominates even when he doesn't produce. He goes from end to end (back and forth, he does backcheck alot if it isn't stellar stuff) and each time he's on the ice; you're on the edge of your seat waiting for somehting to happen. I think he's just that good. I don't see anything amazing in Ovechkin from what I have seen. Scouts says he's the best thing to come since Mario; everyone is the best thing since Mario. He might have the potential to outstrip or equal Ilya but until he produces like Ilya at the NHL level, it's all potential. To tell you how 1st picks are hyped and that they are all seen as the second coming of the Messiah and how reality is harsh. Let's throw some names around since 1990; Owen Nolan, great Career cut short by injuries but never even close to Mario. 1991; Eric Lindros, what he could have been if not for the concussions and lockouts. 1992;It was a defenseman. 1993; Alexandre Daigle, what a bust, he's decent now but no superstar. 1994;defenseman. 1995;defenseman. 1996; defenseman. 1997; Big Joey, he's developed into a strong case for superstardom though his vanishing act in the playoffs this year and his team not leaving the first-round for the last three years is not helping him. 1998; Vinnie the Prince, he had problems with his first year and then with the coach but he has proven he can play with the elite and well. A breakout year next season (More than his career high 80 points) would cement his superstar status. He is the first forward first pick to hoist the cup in this era. 1999;Patrik Stefan, he's evolved into a decent third-line checking forward. Nowhere near elite. 2000; goalie, Heatley was second overall, he's proving to be worth it. 2001; Kovalchuk, same thing as heately. 2002; Rick Nash, he can score, can he do anything else? One-dimensional as hell. And a terrible plus minus but the potential is there. 2003; goalie. So being the landed first pick doesn't mean you're going to be a guaranteed superstar and franchise player.

The draft process on the whole is improving.

As far as the Ilya-Ovechkin comparison is concerned, I can only say I've seen Ilya play enough during the regular season (Atlantav.Washington) to feel underwhelmed. He's been a cherry picker each time I've watched, and when Heatley plays, and the flow doesn't revolve around him, his play drops a little. It reminds me some of Jagr/Bure. I do love his intensity, but when I see him start to take over games for the Thrashers like a true superstar is when I jump on board. They trailed off miserably last season, as opposed to picking up steam and actually making the postseason.

I admit having not watched more than a few tapes of Ovy, but what I've seen is comparible to Kovalchuck offensively. He did outscore Ilya over the course of a few prelim./exhibition games last month, against men. McPhee, notoriously tight-lipped went as far as to say he hasn't seen a prospect play that well in an elite tourney. I doubt whether or not Ovechkin can meet Kovalchuck's stats over the next two seasons w/so many factoes, but the potential shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[craig1]

I really can't wait til AO plays in the NHL.....That way, we won't have to hear this anymore (from either side!) and let his play speak for itself.....If he's great, he's great. If he's ok, he's ok.....If he flops, he flops! I'm just really tired of hearing about it............


.........I just realized how much I am going to be sick of hearing about Crosby next year......even if my favorite team (Pens) land him..........Oh wait, I'm tired of that already too!!!!!!!

 

[Jacky]

As far as the Ilya-Ovechkin comparison is concerned, I can only say I've seen Ilya play enough during the regular season (Atlantav.Washington) to feel underwhelmed. He's been a cherry picker each time I've watched, and when Heatley plays, and the flow doesn't revolve around him, his play drops a little. It reminds me some of Jagr/Bure. I do love his intensity, but when I see him start to take over games for the Thrashers like a true superstar is when I jump on board. They trailed off miserably last season, as opposed to picking up steam and actually making the postseason.

He plays worse when Heatley is around because Heatley is placed with the better center and Kovy, well he gets Stefan or a 3rd or 4th line center. Stefan's more of a defensive minded player, so their styles don't mesh too well.

One thing I've noticed about him (I'm from Atlanta) is that he plays horrible against Kolzig. And yeah he does have a tendency to cherry pick sometimes, but most of the time it is against goalies he does bad against (which is really stupid and annoying since it makes it easy fro the goalies to know what he is doing). My family and I don't buy tickets for Atlanta v. Washington anymore since we'ld rather see Kovalchuk actually play well.

Now this is something I didn't notice until my dad pointed it out to me. The Thrashers played above .500 until Heatley skated with the team and spoke to the press, then I think they won a game and then the next nine games they either tied, lost, or lost in overtime. Then they won two games and didn't win again for like ten more games.

 

[EroCaps]

He plays worse when Heatley is around because Heatley is placed with the better center and Kovy, well he gets Stefan or a 3rd or 4th line center. Stefan's more of a defensive minded player, so their styles don't mesh too well.

One thing I've noticed about him (I'm from Atlanta) is that he plays horrible against Kolzig. And yeah he does have a tendency to cherry pick sometimes, but most of the time it is against goalies he does bad against (which is really stupid and annoying since it makes it easy fro the goalies to know what he is doing). My family and I don't buy tickets for Atlanta v. Washington anymore since we'ld rather see Kovalchuk actually play well.

Now this is something I didn't notice until my dad pointed it out to me. The Thrashers played above .500 until Heatley skated with the team and spoke to the press, then I think they won a game and then the next nine games they either tied, lost, or lost in overtime. Then they won two games and didn't win again for like ten more games.

He has had bad luck w/Kolzig. I've witnessed a few blowouts and high-scoring affairs where Kovalchuck basically went *** for tat with Jagr, but when the chips were on the table, it was a guy like Heatley or who Halpern who came through.

 

[Astaroth]

EroCap; it's your opinion if you feel that Kovalchuk is a cherry picker and whatnot but from what I've enough of him to feel that he has really stepped it up and really developed into what his stats indicate; one of the elite of the league. About your comment about how thet Trashers just crashed and burned, well Ilya was red hot when they were in their slump, so he stepped up to the plate but the rest of the team just didn't follow.

I really dislike that stat of how he outscored Kovalchuk over a few prelim./exhibition games. In my book it doesn't mean that much if anything at all. It's in the real games that things are proven. I mean how many preseason stars have we seen (I'm from Mtl so trust me I've seen prospects heat it up during camp) only to fall on their face when the competition winds up. That being said however I do see great potential in Ovy, just not as high as the ceiling that Kovalchuk's upside is.

 

[EroCaps]

EroCap; it's your opinion if you feel that Kovalchuk is a cherry picker and whatnot but from what I've enough of him to feel that he has really stepped it up and really developed into what his stats indicate; one of the elite of the league. About your comment about how thet Trashers just crashed and burned, well Ilya was red hot when they were in their slump, so he stepped up to the plate but the rest of the team just didn't follow.

I really dislike that stat of how he outscored Kovalchuk over a few prelim./exhibition games. In my book it doesn't mean that much if anything at all. It's in the real games that things are proven. I mean how many preseason stars have we seen (I'm from Mtl so trust me I've seen prospects heat it up during camp) only to fall on their face when the competition winds up. That being said however I do see great potential in Ovy, just not as high as the ceiling that Kovalchuk's upside is.

I don't buy the "this guy played well, but the rest sucked" arguments, great players lead teams. Lemieux, Gretzky, Sakic, even Lindros could not just score but put Ws on the board for their team.

As far as the prelimin/exhibition games go, If I'm not mistaken, the Russian's poor play hurt their Olympic bid. The games did matter. I suppose time will tell.

 

[Gumby]

I really can't wait til AO plays in the NHL.....That way, we won't have to hear this anymore (from either side!) and let his play speak for itself.....If he's great, he's great. If he's ok, he's ok.....If he flops, he flops! I'm just really tired of hearing about it............


.........I just realized how much I am going to be sick of hearing about Crosby next year......even if my favorite team (Pens) land him..........Oh wait, I'm tired of that already too!!!!!!!

I'm really not tryin to be a smartass, but if you're tired of readin this stuff why are you reading the threads? Honestly, I'm a bit tired of the same ol AO/Kovy, AO/Mario recycled babble but I'm a big Caps fan so I read the threads, but if you don't wanna hear anymore AO hype/bashing why click on a AO thread?

Great avatar BTW.

 

[Jacky]

I don't buy the "this guy played well, but the rest sucked" arguments, great players lead teams. Lemieux, Gretzky, Sakic, even Lindros could not just score but put Ws on the board for their team.

But he did put Ws on the board for the Thrashers. At twenty years old. He is the reason they did so well during the first half of the season. During the second half Dany was skating or practicing with them and he had just spoken to the press. Maybe the team couldn't keep losing themselves in hockey and had to deal with all the emotions they had tried to put off from October.

Even Gretzky couldn't lead the Rangers to the playoffs in 97-98 and 98-99 or LA in 93-94 or 94-95. When Sakic played for the Nordiques they reached the playoffs twice in seven years. When Lemieux played more than sixty games in a season, the Penguins made it to the playoffs half of the time. Same for if he played a game in the season. Lindros did worse than that.

Let's take a look at the best players on the Thrashers. Dany Heatley, Ilya Kovalchuk, Marc Savard, Slava Kozlov, Garnet Exelby, Patrik Stefan, and Andy Sutton. Marc Savard played 45 games. He's the Thrashers best center, with Stefan being second-best. Heatley was out for most of the year. Kozzie played horrible except when he was played as a center for Kovalchuk. Then it was decided that since that wasn't his orginal postion he shouldn't keep playing there so they moved him back to a winger.

Like I've said before, Stefan is a defensive forward, Kovy is an offensive one. Ilya is very important to our PP, Stefan is important to our PK. They don't mesh like they need to if they want to be an awesome line. And Stefan is kinda streaky. But he's been doing much better this year. He benefitted from playing with Kovalchuk. Sutton started playing really well at the end of the year. He won games for the Thrashers, not many but at least two. Exelby did pretty good, but this was his first season playing more than fifteen games for the Thrashers.

McEachern is also an ok player but he's been having these really bad tendancies to take bad penelties at times. So do Tamer and Tremblay. Pasi burned himself out trying to hard at the beginning of the year to get the number one goalie spot. And then Dafoe slipped on the ice later in the season.

How many Thrashers games have you seen from this season? Because I've seen at least fifty either on tv or in person. And he did elevate the whole team. Even in games where he didn't score or get an assist, his line normally still did well. Even though they often times weren't second or first line material. You need more than a few good players to have a good team. The effort was there (most of the time) on the teams part, but let's face it, many of their second line players would be third or fourth line players on another team. In a couple of years, they will be a great team or at least when better defensemen are gotten.