For Hockey, a Landscape That Now Includes Palm Trees

[OthmarAmmann]

I know for sure that they are, based on hanging around the local rinks. Most of the actual players are transplants, or kids whose parents are transplants.

Oddly enough, that doesn't really translate to the NHL fanbase.

It might be because they're a different market segment. Those are the people that attend ECHL in Atlanta but not NHL, or the same people who attend AHL in Winnipeg but wouldn't attend NHL if there were a franchise there.

Mod: deleted.

 

[Mike in MN]

This thread will eventually turn into a pissing match between Americans and Canadians

Or we'll let the Canadians argue amongst themselves

Except for those who will then feel the NHL is too watered down with talent and then the circle continues.

Watered down talent is a lame excuse IMHO, but even if that happens, for a few years, the games will get more interesting. Mistakes = goals

 

[Mike in MN]

Back to the topic at hand...

It's great that youth hockey is spreading across the country and growing. But in traditional hockey states, I wonder how much of that growth is from girls hockey? If I had to guess, there are probably more girls playing hockey in MN than boys in 40+ other states.

Of course, those girls can grow up to be lifelong hockey fans too...

 

[tarheelhockey]

If anything, hockey has a huge advantage over football and baseball when it comes to women's participation. AFAIC, growth among girls is just as good as growth among boys.

 

[AllByDesign]

I love these good news stories. I believe all of us can agree that when our favorite sport shows this much positive growth we all give a mighty ---->

 

[Mayor Bee]

USA Hockey lists all the registration numbers on the website.

Here's some interesting things to note. This is "players on the US NTDP U-18 team, by birthplace".
Minnesota - Four
Ohio - Three (Ohio has produced very few NHLers; the two best are Dave Ellett and Cecil Dillon)
Michigan - Three
Wisconsin - Two
Pennsylvania - Two (what's notable here is that Pennsylvania has typically produced almost no NHLers)
Connecticut - Two
California - Two
Arizona - One
Illinois - One
New York - One
Alaska - One

From the U-17 team....
Illinois - Six
Minnesota - Four
Massachusetts - Four
California - Three
Texas - One
Michigan - One
Oregon - One
Arizona - One
Colorado - One
New York - One

 

[Kritter471]

There are also several players from those nontraditional states in recent draft classes (I can think of several Texans off the top of my head, including a few who never lived outside the state).

 

[Shawa666]

There are also several players from those nontraditional states in recent draft classes (I can think of several Texans off the top of my head, including a few who never lived outside the state).

How many of them made their classes in their home states or region?

 

[Fugu]

How many of them made their classes in their home states or region?

Also, two separate issues-- unless a kid was born in state or province X then the family moved when the kid was very young. So, if you were born in California and mainly stayed there until you had to leave home to play at the next lever? That's typical for hockey players. Very few actually stay at home once they get to the junior level.

 

[Derick*]

I don't see why this article's thread can't be on the main board as well. It's not only about business. It's about the culture surrounding the game, more Americans playing it, more American players. Not everything to do with regions is only relevant to "business".

 

[mooseOAK*]

Wake me when it translates to people attending NHL games, or heck, even flipping on the TV to watch hockey.

Youth soccer is massively popular, too. How has that translated to the success of soccer as a spectator sport in the States?

Soccer is an inexpensive sport to play so people without the type of disposable income it takes to attend a professional sporting event can still have their kids play soccer.

I live in San Jose and hockey is booming.

 

[Mathradio]

Or we'll let the Canadians argue amongst themselves



Watered down talent is a lame excuse IMHO, but even if that happens, for a few years, the games will get more interesting. Mistakes = goals

One more goal every couple of games or so.

 

[Blackjack]

For comparison, Florida also has over 100,000 registered soccer players.

So I guess after another 50 years of youth player growth, the NHL down there can look forward to MLS level of support.

OK, let's look at soccer.

In 1994 the United States hosted the World Cup for the first time, and as part of their bid to host, launched MLS in 1996. The league does not compete with European leagues for top level talent, so for the time being, its popularity will be limited.

But it has absolutely developed the game. Tim Howard, Damarcus Beasly, Landon Donovan, Joze Altidore and many others have used the league as a springboard to successful European careers.

Conversely, with the designated player rule, high profile players like David Beckhem and Henri have been added. The league started with 10 teams and will soon be up to 20. Most teams are not profitable, but that has a lot to do with payrolls which have quickly grown with the league's popularity.

I know people like to point to soccer as a metaphor for youth participation not correlating with professional level competitiveness, but they really need to stop because the truth is actually the opposite.

 

[Dado]

I know people like to point to soccer as a metaphor for youth participation not correlating with professional level competitiveness...

Wrong (non)correlation - not competitiveness, rather profitability.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Wake me when it translates to people attending NHL games, or heck, even flipping on the TV to watch hockey.

Youth soccer is massively popular, too. How has that translated to the success of soccer as a spectator sport in the States?

Top 25 Metered Markets for USA-Canada Olympic Gold Medal Hockey Game: (bolded are non-NHL or "non-traditional")
1. Buffalo, 32.6/51
2. Pittsburgh, 31.9/50
3. Detroit, 26.9/47
4. Minneapolis, 26.4/53
5. Milwaukee, 24.5/43
6. Boston, 24.1/46
7. Chicago, 23.5/41
8. Columbus, 22.3/37
9. Denver, 22.2/42
10. Philadelphia, 20.9/35
11. West Palm Beach, 20.3/33
12. Kansas City, 19.5/35
13. St. Louis, 19.4/39
14. Seattle, 19.3/45
15. Cincinnati, 19.2/31
16. New York, 19.0/36
17. Hartford, 18.5/30
18. Providence, 18.4/34
T19. Salt Lake City, 18.3/38
T19. Cleveland, 18.3/32
T21. Washington, D.C., 18.1/33
T21. Baltimore, 18.1/32
23. Ft. Myers, 18.0/34
T24. Austin, 17.1/34
T24. Indianapolis, 17.1/29

 

[Mayor Bee]

How many of them made their classes in their home states or region?

Also, two separate issues-- unless a kid was born in state or province X then the family moved when the kid was very young. So, if you were born in California and mainly stayed there until you had to leave home to play at the next lever? That's typical for hockey players. Very few actually stay at home once they get to the junior level.

That's just the thing. With what I could find of the USNTDP rosters, the only "non-traditional" kid who didn't come up through the same local system as his hometown was the one from Oregon, and he came up through Denver.

I'd like to find the old rosters since the program began and really take a look at it, but it'll have to wait.

 

[MoreOrr]

Top 25 Metered Markets for USA-Canada Olympic Gold Medal Hockey Game: (bolded are non-NHL or "non-traditional")
1. Buffalo, 32.6/51
2. Pittsburgh, 31.9/50
3. Detroit, 26.9/47
4. Minneapolis, 26.4/53
5. Milwaukee, 24.5/43
6. Boston, 24.1/46
7. Chicago, 23.5/41
8. Columbus, 22.3/37
9. Denver, 22.2/42
10. Philadelphia, 20.9/35
11. West Palm Beach, 20.3/33
12. Kansas City, 19.5/35
13. St. Louis, 19.4/39
14. Seattle, 19.3/45
15. Cincinnati, 19.2/31
16. New York, 19.0/36
17. Hartford, 18.5/30
18. Providence, 18.4/34
T19. Salt Lake City, 18.3/38
T19. Cleveland, 18.3/32
T21. Washington, D.C., 18.1/33
T21. Baltimore, 18.1/32
23. Ft. Myers, 18.0/34
T24. Austin, 17.1/34
T24. Indianapolis, 17.1/29

Pardon me, but how do you call Denver a "traditional market" and Hartford and Providence not?

 

[Kritter471]

He said non-NHL or non-traditional. Denver is an NHL market and Hartford/Providence are not. All the cities he skipped have NHL teams.

 

[AZPenguins]

keep in mind this article mentions growth in percentages, not absolute numbers...its kinda like tv ratings..they will say ratings are up 50%..but what they wont mention is that the actual increase was 5000 viewers to 7500.

But it did list the numbers:

Participation throughout the United States has increased from 195,000 male and female players of all ages registered with USA Hockey in 1990-91 to 475,000 in 2009-10. Earlier this year, it registered its 100,000th player at the 8-and-younger level.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

Top 25 Metered Markets for USA-Canada Olympic Gold Medal Hockey Game: (bolded are non-NHL or "non-traditional")
1. Buffalo, 32.6/51
2. Pittsburgh, 31.9/50
3. Detroit, 26.9/47
4. Minneapolis, 26.4/53
5. Milwaukee, 24.5/43
6. Boston, 24.1/46
7. Chicago, 23.5/41
8. Columbus, 22.3/37
9. Denver, 22.2/42
10. Philadelphia, 20.9/35
11. West Palm Beach, 20.3/33
12. Kansas City, 19.5/35
13. St. Louis, 19.4/39
14. Seattle, 19.3/45
15. Cincinnati, 19.2/31
16. New York, 19.0/36
17. Hartford, 18.5/30
18. Providence, 18.4/34
T19. Salt Lake City, 18.3/38
T19. Cleveland, 18.3/32
T21. Washington, D.C., 18.1/33
T21. Baltimore, 18.1/32
23. Ft. Myers, 18.0/34
T24. Austin, 17.1/34
T24. Indianapolis, 17.1/29

Good thing the NHL wants to kill that game.

What would the ratings look like if the American team hadn't been playing?

 

[Brodie]

Probably the same in the top 4 markets, lower elsewhere.

 

[Dado]

What were the US tv ratings for Shaun White's half pipe performance?

Edit: seems Shaun White Night was the first time in over half a decade anyone beat American Idol's ratings. From which I conclude the ratings for the gold medal game had far more to do with US competing for gold than with hockey itself.

 

[in the hall]

Wake me when it translates to people attending NHL games, or heck, even flipping on the TV to watch hockey.

Youth soccer is massively popular, too. How has that translated to the success of soccer as a spectator sport in the States?

The NHL has had their three most attended seasons, and their highest in net revenue each of the last 3 years.

Also they have had tremendous growth in viewership the past few years, despite having a national broadcast partner that is significantly smaller than the networks other leagues are partnered with.

Forgot to add, all this in an economic environment that has been less than favorable to sports. Also, the NBA was down around 10% in attendance last year.

 

[ebox99]

Where Hockey Is Growing, State by State

Sorry, how do you copy and paste a chart here?

Here are the numbers:

Where Hockey Is Growing, State by State

http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/where-hockey-is-growing-state-by-state/?ref=hockey

Below, USA Hockey’s state-by-state figures on player participation for all registered boys, girls and adults, ranked by rate of per capita growth between 1998-99 and 2009-10. (These figures tell half the story of hockey in America — the other half will be examined in figures to be presented in a second post later today):


Rnk State 1998-99 players State pop Players per capita 2009-10 players State pop Players per capita Pct chng per capita
1 D.C. 82 519,000 0.016 742 591,833 0.125 693.5
2 N.C. 2,149 7,650,789 0.028 5,598 9,222,414 0.061 116.1
3 Ga. 911 7,788,240 0.012 2,142 9,685,744 0.022 89.1
4 Tenn. 1,176 5,483,535 0.021 2,430 6,214,888 0.039 82.3
5 Fla. 5,606 15,111,244 0.037 10,856 18,328,340 0.059 59.7
6 Ky. 948 3,960,825 0.024 1,619 4,269,245 0.038 58.4
7 Va. 4,077 6,872,912 0.059 7,251 7,769,089 0.093 57.3
8 Tex. 5,932 20,044,141 0.030 10,909 24,326,974 0.045 51.5
9 S.C. 821 3,885,736 0.021 1,407 4,479,800 0.031 48.7
10 Mont. 2,259 882,779 0.256 3,568 967,440 0.369 44.1
11 N.M. 752 1,739,844 0.043 1,207 1,984,356 0.061 40.7
12 Md. 4,913 5,171,634 0.095 7,326 5,633,597 0.130 36.9
13 Utah 2,400 2,129,836 0.113 3,981 2,736,424 0.145 29.1
14 Wash. 5,447 5,756,361 0.095 7,615 6,549,224 0.116 22.9
15 N.D. 3,733 633,666 0.589 4,547 641,481 0.709 20.3
16 Pa. 22,372 11,994,016 0.187 27,549 12,448,279 0.221 18.6
17 Colo. 9,319 4,056,133 0.230 13,437 4,939,456 0.272 18.4
18 S.D. 1,672 733,133 0.228 2,151 804,194 0.267 17.3
19 Ohio 11,528 11,256,654 0.102 13,579 11,485,910 0.118 15.4
20 Minn. 43,053 4,775,508 0.902 53,450 5,220,393 1.024 13.6
21 Idaho 2,146 1,251,700 0.171 2,958 1,523,816 0.194 13.2
22 Calif. 16,771 33,145,121 0.051 20,404 36,756,666 0.056 9.7
23 Wyo. 1,503 489,602 0.313 1,810 532,668 0.340 8.4
24 Ill. 21,048 12,128,370 0.174 24,018 12,901,563 0.186 7.3
25 Alaska 7,249 619,500 1.170 8,477 686,293 1.235 5.6
26 Ala. 1,015 4,369,862 0.023 1,114 4,661,900 0.024 2.9
27 Me. 5,812 1,253,040 0.464 6,180 1,316,456 0.469 1.2
28 Okla. 960 3,358,044 0.029 1,051 3,642,361 0.029 0.9
29 N.J. 15,081 8,143,412 0.185 16,041 8,682,661 0.185 -0.2
30 Conn. 11,508 3,282,031 0.351 12,088 3,501,252 0.345 -1.5
31 Neb. 1,400 1,666,028 0.084 1,459 1,783,432 0.082 -2.6
32 Mass. 43,001 6,175,169 0.696 43,445 6,497,967 0.669 -4.0
33 Del. 943 753,538 0.125 1,049 873,092 0.120 -4.0
34 W.Va. 1,115 1,806,928 0.062 1,060 1,814,468 0.058 -5.3
35 Mich. 54,991 9,863,775 0.558 51,404 10,003,422 0.514 -7.8
36 R.I. 4,756 990,819 0.480 4,641 1,050,788 0.442 -8.0
37 Vt. 4,632 593,740 0.780 4,443 621,270 0.715 -8.3
38 Ind. 5,052 5,942,901 0.085 4,927 6,376,792 0.077 -9.1
39 Wis. 18,225 5,250,446 0.347 17,697 5,627,967 0.314 -9.4
40 N.Y. 47,958 18,196,601 0.264 46,389 19,490,297 0.238 -9.7
41 N.H. 6,922 1,201,134 0.576 6,120 1,315,809 0.465 -19.3
42 Iowa 3,037 2,869,413 0.106 2,549 3,002,555 0.085 -19.8
43 Kan. 1,978 2,654,052 0.075 1,574 2,802,134 0.056 -24.6
44 Mo. 7,771 5,468,338 0.142 6,295 5,911,605 0.106 -25.1
45 Nev. 881 1,809,253 0.049 940 2,600,167 0.036 -25.8
46 Miss. 401 2,768,619 0.014 259 2,938,618 0.009 -39.1
48 Ark. 318 2,551,373 0.012 216 2,855,390 0.008 -39.3
49 Ore. 1,200 3,316,154 0.036 804 3,790,060 0.021 -41.4
50 La. 970 4,372,035 0.022 466 4,410,796 0.011 -52.4
51 Hawaii 223 1,185,497 0.019 11 1,288,198 0.001 -95.5

 

[kdb209]

Sunday's Murky News had a front page feature story on local Womens Hockey:

http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_17432664

An interesting sidebar (I can't find a link for it, though) has a chart showing the growth of womens hockey in the US - based on %-age of players who are registered with USA Hockey that are women - it has grown from 3% in '90-'91 to 13% today.