Confirmed with Link: For health reasons, Derek Dorsett will not be returning to the Canucks

[Nomobo]

Yeah, Rypien doesn't really belong in with the rest of the list of enforcer suicides.

The guy had serious depression/bipolar issues dating from his time in junior and into his time in Manitoba - Craig Heizinger gave a great interview about this when he died. This isn't a player who had issues in his 30s/40s after 15 years of fighting - he was struggling with a lot of stuff from a very early age before concussion stuff ever was an issue.

Yeah, that's the way I remember it as well and was responding to someone who was posting " Rick Rypien died from fighting ".

 

[Bad Goalie]

Keep hiding behind your belief system. I'm sure the concussive effects suffered from 8 years of taking punches to the head and his concussions did nothing to exacerbate Rypien's mental issues when all the experts state categorically that it does. Yes he had problems but all the punches to the head and his concussions simply added to the problem. You cannot simply dismiss his suicide because he had mental issues as well. He went through exactly the same issues that Boogard and Belak and they are not players from the "old days". All three ended their careers at basically the same time 21010-2011. All 3 were fighters. All 3 committed suicide.

 

[Nomobo]

Keep hiding behind your belief system. I'm sure the concussive effects suffered from 8 years of taking punches to the head and his concussions did nothing to exacerbate Rypien's mental issues when all the experts state categorically that it does. Yes he had problems but all the punches to the head and his concussions simply added to the problem. You cannot simply dismiss his suicide because he had mental issues as well. He went through exactly the same issues that Boogard and Belak and they are not players from the "old days". All three ended their careers at basically the same time 21010-2011. All 3 were fighters. All 3 committed suicide.

Yeah ok, everyone involved with him was wrong and you're right..happy?

How the **** do you know what my beliefs are regarding this?

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

Yeah ok, everyone involved with him was wrong and you're right..happy?

How the **** do you know what my beliefs are regarding this?

Hmm, food for thought.

 

[LeftCoast]

Anxiety, depression, addictive behavior, drug and alcohol abuse are all symptomatic of CTE. You can't really separate Rypien's CTE from his mental health issues.

Just to put some perhaps familiar names to the symptoms. Of course there are many hockey players and people from all walks of life who have had many of or all of these symptoms (well suicide is not really a symptom - it's pretty final) but were not NHL enforcers. However the numbers and the connection are becoming hard to deny.

Suicides:

• Rick Rypien
• Derek Boogaard
• Wade Belakk
• Todd Ewen
• Steve Montador
• Trevor Ettinger
• Marc Potvin

Drugs, Alcohol and addictions

• Bob Probert
• Stu Grimson
• Brantt Myhres
• Todd Fedoruk
• Darren McCarty
• Ken Daneyko
• John Kordic

One of the links to drug abuse is addition to opioids and other pain killers that pretty much all enforcers take regularly and in increasingly large doses as they require more and more to deal with the constant pain.

Depression

• Rich Clune
• Gino Odjick
• Stephen Peat

Additionally Corey Hirsch has talked about his struggles with anxiety, OCD and depression. He was not a fighter, but as a goalie he had multiple concussions.

Then there is the NFL were the league settled with over 4500 former players. Studies cited in the case linked concussions and CTE to depression, anxiety, additions, and neurodegenerative disorders such as ALS and Alzheimers.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Doesn't have to be one way or the other. Hockey enforcers in a sense are comparable to wrestlers (WWE not collegiate if that means to be said).

A lot of them have concussion issues. A lot of them develop dependencies of pain killers. A lot of them die young either by suicide or drug overdose. It takes a certain type of person drawn to that type of career. No idea if it's true of hockey enforcers but w wrestlers a lot came up in abusive households. It's a big mish mash of different factors.

I like fighting in hockey, but it doesn't mean I can't see the correlation between fighting and concussions, concussions and CTE, CTE and ruined lives. But if we are going to put a stop to anything that makes concussions more likely in life, then we won't be playing contact sports anyways. Oops rambling again and lost train of thought.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

That feeling when u post something and see someone just did a much better job addressing the subject.

 

[I am toxic]

Anxiety, depression, addictive behavior, drug and alcohol abuse are all symptomatic of CTE. You can't really separate Rypien's CTE from his mental health issues.

Just to put some perhaps familiar names to the symptoms. Of course there are many hockey players and people from all walks of life who have had many of or all of these symptoms (well suicide is not really a symptom - it's pretty final) but were not NHL enforcers. However the numbers and the connection are becoming hard to deny.

Suicides:

• Rick Rypien
• Derek Boogaard
• Wade Belakk
• Todd Ewen
• Steve Montador
• Trevor Ettinger
• Marc Potvin

Drugs, Alcohol and addictions

• Bob Probert
• Stu Grimson
• Brantt Myhres
• Todd Fedoruk
• Darren McCarty
• Ken Daneyko
• John Kordic

One of the links to drug abuse is addition to opioids and other pain killers that pretty much all enforcers take regularly and in increasingly large doses as they require more and more to deal with the constant pain.

Depression

• Rich Clune
• Gino Odjick
• Stephen Peat

Additionally Corey Hirsch has talked about his struggles with anxiety, OCD and depression. He was not a fighter, but as a goalie he had multiple concussions.

Then there is the NFL were the league settled with over 4500 former players. Studies cited in the case linked concussions and CTE to depression, anxiety, additions, and neurodegenerative disorders such as ALS and Alzheimers.

Well said.

 

[MS]

Anxiety, depression, addictive behavior, drug and alcohol abuse are all symptomatic of CTE. You can't really separate Rypien's CTE from his mental health issues.

Just to put some perhaps familiar names to the symptoms. Of course there are many hockey players and people from all walks of life who have had many of or all of these symptoms (well suicide is not really a symptom - it's pretty final) but were not NHL enforcers. However the numbers and the connection are becoming hard to deny.

Suicides:

• Rick Rypien
• Derek Boogaard
• Wade Belakk
• Todd Ewen
• Steve Montador
• Trevor Ettinger
• Marc Potvin

Drugs, Alcohol and addictions

• Bob Probert
• Stu Grimson
• Brantt Myhres
• Todd Fedoruk
• Darren McCarty
• Ken Daneyko
• John Kordic

One of the links to drug abuse is addition to opioids and other pain killers that pretty much all enforcers take regularly and in increasingly large doses as they require more and more to deal with the constant pain.

Depression

• Rich Clune
• Gino Odjick
• Stephen Peat

Additionally Corey Hirsch has talked about his struggles with anxiety, OCD and depression. He was not a fighter, but as a goalie he had multiple concussions.

Then there is the NFL were the league settled with over 4500 former players. Studies cited in the case linked concussions and CTE to depression, anxiety, additions, and neurodegenerative disorders such as ALS and Alzheimers.

Has it ever been confirmed anywhere that Rypien had CTE?

Because there are plenty of people with depression who don't have CTE and plenty of people who were fighters in hockey who don't have CTE.

In fact, one of the examples you gave above conclusively didn't have CTE when his brain was examined after his suicide :

Death of Todd Ewen, former NHL enforcer found not to have CTE, shows how little we know about brain injuries

 

[ChilliBilly]

Doesn't have to be one way or the other. Hockey enforcers in a sense are comparable to wrestlers (WWE not collegiate if that means to be said).

A lot of them have concussion issues. A lot of them develop dependencies of pain killers. A lot of them die young either by suicide or drug overdose. It takes a certain type of person drawn to that type of career. No idea if it's true of hockey enforcers but w wrestlers a lot came up in abusive households. It's a big mish mash of different factors.

I like fighting in hockey, but it doesn't mean I can't see the correlation between fighting and concussions, concussions and CTE, CTE and ruined lives. But if we are going to put a stop to anything that makes concussions more likely in life, then we won't be playing contact sports anyways. Oops rambling again and lost train of thought.

You miss the point. Fighting can be removed and not really change the game. Contact can not. They have changed the rules so that targeting the head is a penalty. All for the better. Yes, hockey players and football players will suffer from contact. But fighting is totally unnecessary. To try to apply the slippery slope argument (well if we get rid of fighting contact is next) is bull crap. Get rid of this useless aspect of hockey ie fighting .... work on reducing CTE in hockey (ie . like they did, no first point of impact is the head) and try to make it a skill game.

 

[member 290103]

Has it ever been confirmed anywhere that Rypien had CTE?

Because there are plenty of people with depression who don't have CTE and plenty of people who were fighters in hockey who don't have CTE.

In fact, one of the examples you gave above conclusively didn't have CTE when his brain was examined after his suicide :

Death of Todd Ewen, former NHL enforcer found not to have CTE, shows how little we know about brain injuries

I had thought that Rypien's mental health issues could be traced back to his time as a younger teenager - something to do with someone close to him passing away?

 

[Wo Yorfat]

You miss the point. Fighting can be removed and not really change the game. Contact can not. They have changed the rules so that targeting the head is a penalty. All for the better. Yes, hockey players and football players will suffer from contact. But fighting is totally unnecessary. To try to apply the slippery slope argument (well if we get rid of fighting contact is next) is bull crap. Get rid of this useless aspect of hockey ie fighting .... work on reducing CTE in hockey (ie . like they did, no first point of impact is the head) and try to make it a skill game.

I'm not saying you can't take out fighting or else you have to take out contact. I agree that you can't have competitive hockey without a great deal of contact. And i would care very little if fighting was removed. To me it hasn't added much entertainment since Gino.

I'm saying that if it's determined that things that lead to CTE, or are highly dangerous in general, shouldn't be practised, then we shouldn't have hockey at all. Or football or nascar or mma or boxing or surfing etc.

All of these are unnecessary and lead to death and injuries, directly or indirectly. We allow adults to make decisions that are harmful to them.

You say fighting in hockey is unnecessary. I say so is boxing. You know a version of the nhl without fighting will still lead to thousands of concussions, yet you want it to exist. You understand the consequences, but are comfortable with them. Same goes for the folks who want to keep fighting in hockey.

I think fighting in hockey will die soon. But it's not because of concern for anyone's well being, it's because the fear of lawsuits will force the league to remove it and keeping it will no longer be financially viable.

I just hate the thought of legislating lifestyle and in a weird way this reminds me of bloomberg banning large sodas because they're bad for people.

 

[ChilliBilly]

I'm not saying you can't take out fighting or else you have to take out contact. I agree that you can't have competitive hockey without a great deal of contact. And i would care very little if fighting was removed. To me it hasn't added much entertainment since Gino.

I'm saying that if it's determined that things that lead to CTE, or are highly dangerous in general, shouldn't be practised, then we shouldn't have hockey at all. Or football or nascar or mma or boxing or surfing etc.

All of these are unnecessary and lead to death and injuries, directly or indirectly. We allow adults to make decisions that are harmful to them.

You say fighting in hockey is unnecessary. I say so is boxing. You know a version of the nhl without fighting will still lead to thousands of concussions, yet you want it to exist. You understand the consequences, but are comfortable with them. Same goes for the folks who want to keep fighting in hockey.

I think fighting in hockey will die soon. But it's not because of concern for anyone's well being, it's because the fear of lawsuits will force the league to remove it and keeping it will no longer be financially viable.

I just hate the thought of legislating lifestyle and in a weird way this reminds me of bloomberg banning large sodas because they're bad for people.

well then we disagree. I think fighting is overdue to die in hockey. Its not necessary, it doesn't protect players from cheap shots. Boxing is a stupid sport, hit you your opponent enough times until he suffers enough brain damage that he can't stand up.

my main point is that you can reduce the amount of CTE by simply getting rid of fighting, and it won't change the game at all. And people legislate lifestyle all the time, pot is a good example. And yes it was wrong. And I am all for banning large sodas.

You may be surprised to know that I think sugar is worse than fighting in hockey. And obesity isn't a disease; it people refusing to take responsibility for their own health. I think you should have to pay more for health insurance if they are overweight, smoke, take drugs or drink too much (and I would have to pay more because I fall under one of those groups).

 

[Wo Yorfat]

well then we disagree. I think fighting is overdue to die in hockey. Its not necessary, it doesn't protect players from cheap shots. Boxing is a stupid sport, hit you your opponent enough times until he suffers enough brain damage that he can't stand up.

my main point is that you can reduce the amount of CTE by simply getting rid of fighting, and it won't change the game at all. And people legislate lifestyle all the time, pot is a good example. And yes it was wrong. And I am all for banning large sodas.

You may be surprised to know that I think sugar is worse than fighting in hockey. And obesity isn't a disease; it people refusing to take responsibility for their own health. I think you should have to pay more for health insurance if they are overweight, smoke, take drugs or drink too much (and I would have to pay more because I fall under one of those groups).

I agree wholeheartedly with parts and disagree just as much with others, but hey fair enough. It's a pretty fundamental argument re personal liberty/responsibility and those will rage on forever. When they ban fighting in 2020, I'll toast you with a small rootbeer

 

[ChilliBilly]

I agree wholeheartedly with parts and disagree just as much with others, but hey fair enough. It's a pretty fundamental argument re personal liberty/responsibility and those will rage on forever. When they ban fighting in 2020, I'll toast you with a small rootbeer

small? my feelings are hurt.

 

[LeftCoast]

Has it ever been confirmed anywhere that Rypien had CTE?

Because there are plenty of people with depression who don't have CTE and plenty of people who were fighters in hockey who don't have CTE.

In fact, one of the examples you gave above conclusively didn't have CTE when his brain was examined after his suicide :

Death of Todd Ewen, former NHL enforcer found not to have CTE, shows how little we know about brain injuries

It's impossible to know if Rypien had CTE because until just this year, a definitive diagnosis could only be made by dissection of the brain after death. Todd Ewan's brain was dissected after death and they didn't find the physical signs of CTE in his brain tissue. However Todd's wife (who donated his brain for study) maintains that he had all of the symptoms of CTE including memory loss, confusion, personality changes (including depression and suicidal thoughts), erratic behavior, problems paying attention and organizing thoughts, difficulty with balance and motor skills and addictive behaviour. So Todd had multiple concussions and all of the symptoms, but not the physical damage to the brain. So like the article says -it shows how little we know about brain injuries.

Fighting has been a part of the culture of hockey for generations. There is also a long history of opposition to changes that improve player safety from goalie masks, helmets, visors, hits to the head, etc., But I think this is one of those areas where you don't want to be on the wrong side of history. It's heart breaking to see some of the most colourful characters and personalities in the game living in a fog, in constant pain, driven to suicide or lost in addictions.

It's difficult when the evidence says a change in the culture is require. There will always be those who don't accept the evidence because the love and are committed to the culture. Kind of like climate change.

 

[Cogburn]

So did Dorsett.....die? Was he diagnosed with brain damage from fighting? Or was it still an injury unrelated to his fighting?

What the hell is with all this anti-fighting pro-fighting crap? I just came in here to wish Dorsett well, and say his energy even won me over and I've been pushing for him to be bought out before this season. This is like Daniel's 1000 points thread being hijacked by pro and anti tank arguments.

 

[m9]

Has it ever been confirmed anywhere that Rypien had CTE?

Because there are plenty of people with depression who don't have CTE and plenty of people who were fighters in hockey who don't have CTE.

In fact, one of the examples you gave above conclusively didn't have CTE when his brain was examined after his suicide :

Death of Todd Ewen, former NHL enforcer found not to have CTE, shows how little we know about brain injuries

This is just it - you can't make a list of names and blame it on CTE.

There is a mix of causation and correlation, and I don't think it's up for debate. People are born with things, people have hard upbringings, people play sports, people get concussions, and people have issues when they're older.

How it all fits together, it's way too early to tell. I think we'll know much, much more in 10 years with the increased focus on mental health and CTE. But when you list 20 NHL enforcers with issues you can guarantee some had major issues prior to concussions, especially when it comes to things like addiction. You can also guarantee that some guys on that list had either new issues or pre-existing issues due to head injuries.

 

[Ozone]

Totally agree - you wonder the mentality

Also agree with the comments on Dorsett being a warrior. Tremendous heart. No one saw him becoming much coming out of Junior and he had to just out-work and often out-fight others to stick around. If anyone epitomized a player doing the grunt work and taking on the hard roles it was Dorsett. When ever he tied up with some of the biggest and toughest players in the League (and Dorsett took on them all) I thought he was going to get killed. Somehow he survived and often won when the only thing he had going for him was guts. Maybe not the PC thing to say these days but Dorsett was a man's man.

Nice that he could go out in a blaze of glory establishing he was a bona vide NHL player. Hopefully the team provides a tribute to this guy who represents every player that worked away in the trenches of the NHL and was true teammate who absolutely always had a teammate's back.

Boom! Drop the mic.....

 

[Ozone]

I don't care what someone does for a living, how much they make....
I care for the person, and what they just lost...

 

[member 290103]

Would have been nice to honor him when it was not Daniel Sedin's point celebration night. WTF?

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Nice read: A Message from Derek Dorsett