Footballing Hot Takes

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
61,921
8,520
France
I'll give Cristiano this, he's kept his game up waaaay longer than I ever expected. To play the type of game he plays as long as he has is impressive. By any account I've seen he may be an egomaniac but he lives clean and works like crazy to keep his fitness and skills sharp.
That's what I respect the most about him.
Basically all I respet about him in fact :D
 

les Habs

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
22,236
3,964
Wisconsin
I'll give Cristiano this, he's kept his game up waaaay longer than I ever expected. To play the type of game he plays as long as he has is impressive. By any account I've seen he may be an egomaniac but he lives clean and works like crazy to keep his fitness and skills sharp.

Well yes and no. He's kept up is productivity and he's still a good player, but he's a different player now. It may not look it on paper so much, but if you watch him you can see the difference. Still it's impressive how he's performed given his age.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stray Wasp

Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
60,349
2,397
I love the Ronaldo "has the same amount of Ballon d'Ors as Messi" argument.

It's actually one of the biggest symptoms of Cristiano being overrated. The whole football world wanted a rivalry because rivalries sell. If we all talked about Messi as the undisputed best for a decade that'd be pretty boring, wouldn't it? So let's give Cristiano a bunch of Ballons d'or to drive the narrative of a rivalry.
 

Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
60,349
2,397
Came to post her about Martin Ødegaard. Is he still as highly-touted as he was when Madrid signed him? Seems like we'd be seeing more of him by now.

He's still very good. Definitely been passed by Mbappe as far as players his age group, but he's really impressive in the Dutch league. I sort of don't think he's ever going to be a huge goal scorer but he is a magician from a bit deeper. This article about his progress is worth reading.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,925
19,043
w/ Renly's Peach
He's still very good. Definitely been passed by Mbappe as far as players his age group, but he's really impressive in the Dutch league. I sort of don't think he's ever going to be a huge goal scorer but he is a magician from a bit deeper. This article about his progress is worth reading.

Meh, xA never appreciated Raffa & BMG. So it's a useless stat...packing on the other hand...
 

John Pedro

Registered User
Feb 6, 2014
6,643
2,430
São Paulo
This is one argument I just don't like. The avs PP was at 7% when MacKinnon was out, but operates at 20% with him, yet people use that PP as an argument against MacK. Bad coaching can overcome great players, but one player having to deal with bad PP coaching doesn't mean we should eliminte PP production from the conversation entirely...even if it needs to be qualified & taken with a grain of salt.

Otherwise we've gotta start talking about Matt "elite player" Duchene just because he's top 5-10 in ES scoring over the past 6 or 7 years while having been a part of a competent PP once in his career...2013-14.

McDavid does create a lot on the PP, but guys just can't convert on the chances. Plus, Oilers PP strategy is to set up Letestu for one-timers lol. Hall used to be terrible PP player in Edmonton, this season he's 29pp pts and our PP is far from good, it's average with him out there and unwatchable when he's out. I don't like to discredit PP pts cause it's a valuable skill, any team would love to have a PP specialist, but if you take McDavid's PP pts out he is still at a point per game pace and a +17 while playing for a team like the Oilers. It's stupid how good he is. Other than MacKinnon I don't think there's anyone playing better or close to his level.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cgf

John Pedro

Registered User
Feb 6, 2014
6,643
2,430
São Paulo
xG hated Favre's BMG, true. Eventually it was right though lol.

If I'm not mistaken, Favre's Nice also had the same problem in their first season, as they overachieved according to advantage stats then failed to their real level in the next season. I like his defensive structure, though. I'd like to see him at a richer club.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,925
19,043
w/ Renly's Peach
If I'm not mistaken, Favre's Nice also had the same problem in their first season, as they overachieved according to advantage stats. I like his defensive structure, though. I'd like to see him at a richer club.

He keeps getting brought up in connection with BVB, but I dunno if I'd want to see Lucien deal with that chaos. He's very much most comfortable in a smaller locale where he can just draw up passing sequences to drill into his sides. That's why he only left Switzerland for small, quiet Gladbach, and went to small, quiet Nice after that.

...though I do wonder how he would do with Leipzig, they are still so in love with having a first division team that he'd have time to win their love with his football.
 

John Pedro

Registered User
Feb 6, 2014
6,643
2,430
São Paulo
He keeps getting brought up in connection with BVB, but I dunno if I'd want to see Lucien deal with that chaos. He's very much most comfortable in a smaller locale where he can just draw up passing sequences to drill into his sides. That's why he only left Switzerland for small, quiet Gladbach, and went to small, quiet Nice after that.

...though I do wonder how he would do with Leipzig, they are still so in love with having a first division team that he'd have time to win their love with his football.

Tuchel or Nagelsmann to Leipzig would be nice too. Lot of talent to work and create a nice offensive team.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,925
19,043
w/ Renly's Peach
Tuchel or Nagelsmann to Leipzig would be nice too. Lot of talent to work and create a nice offensive team.

If Bayern screw up Nagelsmann, it would be sweet to see him go to BVB while Tuchel or Favre takes over Leipzig...with the other going to BMG or Union, depending on which one gets the RB job :naughty:
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Pedro

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
I think this is interesting, also.

29216347_1772602192800286_1427706726156599296_n.jpg


Messi is the GOAT but CR7 is certainly up there.

Also, in the knockout stages: Messi - 37 goals in 58 matches, Ronaldo - 54 goals in 68 matches.
 
  • Like
Reactions: S E P H

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Messi plays a lot deeper, particularly at the start of his career and now for the last few seasons, so I'm not surprised by that in the least.
No he doesn't, and Messi starting a bit deeper suits his strengths better. Ronaldo is a master of getting into scoring positions and finding space. Messi is better at running at the defence and his long shots are ridiculous. If anything Ronaldo started the furthest back of the two when he played for United. But anyway...it doesn't matter. Nobody ever changes their minds in these discussions. Ronaldo consistently produces at the highest level and there's always an excuse as to why -- it's certainly never because he's an amazing player (he is).
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Abusement Park

Duchene2MacKinnon

In the hands of Genius
Aug 8, 2006
45,300
9,465
Messi started out wide than drafted centrally first forward(deeper when in need) then even deeper. He simultaneously plays 2/3 positions
 

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,000
7,443
LA
No he doesn't, and Messi starting a bit deeper suits his strengths better. Ronaldo is a master of getting into scoring positions and finding space. Messi is better at running at the defence and his long shots are ridiculous. If anything Ronaldo started the furthest back of the two when he played for United. But anyway...it doesn't matter. Nobody ever changes their minds in these discussions. Ronaldo consistently produces at the highest level and there's always an excuse as to why -- it's certainly never because he's an amazing player (he is).

Of course he is one of the GOAT's and I don't even know why you have to say that part, but one plays deeper than the other, and Ronaldo plays with other attacking players who aren't awesome goal scorers. Especially the last few seasons Ronaldo plays further forward. Therefore the statistical argument doesn't really wash. Messi is also 3 years younger.
 

Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
60,349
2,397
Cristiano is capable of being an amazing player and also not the second best of his generation or top 5 all-time
 
  • Like
Reactions: cgf

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Of course he is one of the GOAT's and I don't even know why you have to say that part, but one plays deeper than the other, and Ronaldo plays with other attacking players who aren't awesome goal scorers. Especially the last few seasons Ronaldo plays further forward. Therefore the statistical argument doesn't really wash. Messi is also 3 years younger.
You said "much deeper" which isn't really true and their heat maps support that. I don't know what you mean by the statistical argument doesn't really wash. I wasn't trying to say that Ronaldo was better than Messi. He's clearly not to anyone that will watch. With that said I don't think that Messi's starting position is really that relevant when he's still the focal point of the team and the one expected to be the main goal scorer. Systems are different but Barcelona is geared up to get the best out of Messi (as it should be) and likewise for Ronaldo. They go about it in different ways but their end goal is pretty similar. They also both contribute about the same amount defensively (that is to say they both walk a hell of a lot relative to other players).

Not sure what Messi being younger matters with those stats above either. It's just on a per-game basis. If anything being older would hurt Ronaldo (though we know he's managed his aging incredibly well).

I mean...Messi hasn't played with some incredible creative players throughout his career? The majority of it has been spent with Iniesta, Xavi, Alves and Busquets (who while doesn't get a lot of direct assists opens up the play from the back brilliantly with his line breaking passes). Messi has always been the focal point and main goal scorer in some very strong, creative teams.
 

kov

Registered User
Jul 5, 2002
6,776
20
NYC
<snip>

Also, in the knockout stages: Messi - 37 goals in 58 matches, Ronaldo - 54 goals in 68 matches.

Overall Messi's assist numbers are like 20% higher than Cristiano's, so these CL assist numbers for him surprised and impressed me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YNWA14

Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,163
22,980
New York
Late to this discussion, but completely agree with @Evilo.

Malkin's had such an underrated career. 13th all time among guys to score 500 points in PPG average, yet the league doesn't list him as a top 100 player of all time. :help:

McDavid's PPG average so far is just slightly ahead of Malkin's, he'd be 12th if he could be added to the list, so I think you can argue that McDavid is the better player right now, but there's not a big difference here, and Malkin might be having the better season. He's also probably just as talented as McDavid offensively.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->