Confirmed with Link: Foligno Extension - 3.1 Million AAV

[Spurgeon]

The Brodin contract should be being discussed right now. Doing that deal before even starting the offseason made no sense

The only benefit on waiting on a Brodin extension would've been waiting until the next offseason to do a "handshake agreement" extension that allowed us to expose him in the ED as a pending UFA. All things considered, I think Brodin got a very fair contract for what he brings to this team.

 

[thestonedkoala]

8 Million this year, 6 million next year. I don't count that as low cash owed in the years when the NHL is losing a billion dollars.

And then 2 million, then 1 million and another million.

Wonder if the New York is still available; something around Eberle + Ladd for Parise? Wild need right wingers, Eberle is still a top 6. Ladd is buried at the moment...

 

[Spurgeon]

And then 2 million, then 1 million and another million.

Wonder if the New York is still available; something around Eberle + Ladd for Parise? Wild need right wingers, Eberle is still a top 6. Ladd is buried at the moment...

That's an increase in AAV of $2.5M for the next 3 seasons. Wild can't afford that now or the following seasons.

 

[ThatGuy22]

The Brodin contract should be being discussed right now. Doing that deal before even starting the offseason made no sense

If you think they should be discussing it now, it's pretty irrelevant that it was done in September. BG wasn't going whale hunting in free agency, with the only other significant move being Talbot. And that's barely significant. Everything else was an RFA gimmie, or dime a dozen vet 700k 1 year deal.

There are certainly schools of thought that suggest getting your biggest priorities done right away is the way to go. Brodin was probably at worst his 2nd biggest priority after upgrading the goaltending.

 

[2Pair]

The only benefit on waiting on a Brodin extension would've been waiting until the next offseason to do a "handshake agreement" extension that allowed us to expose him in the ED as a pending UFA. All things considered, I think Brodin got a very fair contract for what he brings to this team.

He could've had an entire offseason to entertain possible trades. Waiting until today would've changed nothing from Brodin's end. Why paint yourself into a corner for no reason?

 

[2Pair]

If you think they should be discussing it now, it's pretty irrelevant that it was done in September. BG wasn't going whale hunting in free agency, with the only other significant move being Talbot. And that's barely significant. Everything else was an RFA gimmie, or dime a dozen vet 700k 1 year deal.

There are certainly schools of thought that suggest getting your biggest priorities done right away is the way to go. Brodin was probably at worst his 2nd biggest priority after upgrading the goaltending.

His biggest priority this offseason was #1 center. Giving your best trade chip a NMC before the offseason even starts seems like a bad idea to me. Also had the added benefit of decreasing the value of your #2 trade chip.

 

[Spurgeon]

He could've had an entire offseason to entertain possible trades. Waiting until today would've changed nothing from Brodin's end. Why paint yourself into a corner for no reason?

There's definitely some benefit to waiting, but there's also consequences. If he sees an expanded role and continues to increase his offensive productivity, he would've demanded more money. The one benefit of waiting would have been increased leverage in trade negotiations, I'll give you that. Still, I don't think there was ever a chance that BG was trading Brodin. Dumba @ $6M vs. Brodin @ $6M is a pretty easy decision, especially when you consider our defensive depth at RD.

Dumba still doesn't have to be traded though. The Wild are in a position where they can comfortably go 8 skaters and be completely fine with the outcome. So BG still has the leverage in any trade discussions revolving Dumba.

 

[ThatGuy22]

His biggest priority this offseason was #1 center. Giving your best trade chip a NMC before the offseason even starts seems like a bad idea to me. Also had the added benefit of decreasing the value of your #2 trade chip.

The extension with NMC indicates to me BG didn't consider Brodin a trade chip, rather a core piece of the team he wants to build.

As far as decreasing the value of Dumba, it would only decrease his value if you're dead set on trading him in some defined time period. If you're happy to keep Dumba, it doesn't really decrease his value.

I think the moves he's made show he understands the value in our D core, and keeping it together. Sure he'd move Dumba in the right move, but it was only on HFBoards where the conclusion became "He has to 100% move Dumba now".

 

[thestonedkoala]

That's an increase in AAV of $2.5M for the next 3 seasons. Wild can't afford that now or the following seasons.

Eh...what if we took %25 of the cap hit from Parise and just did Ladd for Parise.

Given the changes made over the past two seasons, I have to strongly wonder if Parise is in the long term plans for Minnesota.

 

[2Pair]

There's definitely some benefit to waiting, but there's also consequences. If he sees an expanded role and continues to increase his offensive productivity, he would've demanded more money. The one benefit of waiting would have been increased leverage in trade negotiations, I'll give you that. Still, I don't think there was ever a chance that BG was trading Brodin. Dumba @ $6M vs. Brodin @ $6M is a pretty easy decision, especially when you consider our defensive depth at RD.

Dumba still doesn't have to be traded though. The Wild are in a position where they can comfortably go 8 skaters and be completely fine with the outcome. So BG still has the leverage in any trade discussions revolving Dumba.

I agree with this in general, not quite as much when it comes to Foligno and this contract specifically. How good would he have to be to be able to demand more than what he just got? It's a different story if he would've signed a "team friendly" type of deal. To add to it, if he plays so well that $3.1M isn't enough to sign him, he's probably pretty valuable at the deadline? No?

 

[2Pair]

The extension with NMC indicates to me BG didn't consider Brodin a trade chip, rather a core piece of the team he wants to build.

As far as decreasing the value of Dumba, it would only decrease his value if you're dead set on trading him in some defined time period. If you're happy to keep Dumba, it doesn't really decrease his value.

I think the moves he's made show he understands the value in our D core, and keeping it together. Sure he'd move Dumba in the right move, but it was only on HFBoards where the conclusion became "He has to 100% move Dumba now".

It doesn't really matter if he wanted to trade Brodin or not, throwing away that leverage for no gain is just bad management.

A GM who has Nick Bjugstad as his 1st line center can't be "happy to keep everyone". It can be argued how much the Brodin NMC hurt his ability to make certain trades, but it can't possibly be argued that it improved his leverage. If you're going to give up that leverage then there has to be a benefit to doing so.

 

[Spurgeon]

I agree with this in general, not quite as much when it comes to Foligno and this contract specifically. How good would he have to be to be able to demand more than what he just got? It's a different story if he would've signed a "team friendly" type of deal. To add to it, if he plays so well that $3.1M isn't enough to sign him, he's probably pretty valuable at the deadline? No?

I agree on Foligno. I really would have rather seen him traded out of here because the future outlook is that we're going to be paying a 4th line LW $3.1M for 3 years and he definitely would've returned something at this TDL. He does play an important role on this team, but his role is going to be diminished every year as players like Boldy start to make the team.

 

[Webster]

Nothing to worry about. How many players are under contract in the 21-22 season, 6? Then Guerin has an ocean of cap space...

 

[GordieGallant]

Again I have no problem with any of Guerin's moves. He wants a team that comes to play everynight.
There was definitely a rift in the locker room.

 

[Spurgeon]

Nothing to worry about. How many players are under contract in the 21-22 season, 6? Then Guerin has an ocean of cap space...

14 players with roughly $22.5M in cap space to re-sign Fiala, Kap, Ek, and 4-5 other players. Rask will definitely be bought out to include some room, but there isn't anywhere close to an ocean of cap-space.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

14 players with roughly $22.5M in cap space to re-sign Fiala, Kap, Ek, and 4-5 other players. Rask will definitely be bought out to include some room, but there isn't anywhere close to an ocean of cap-space.

there is when you dont consider resigning people

 

[thestonedkoala]

I agree on Foligno. I really would have rather seen him traded out of here because the future outlook is that we're going to be paying a 4th line LW $3.1M for 3 years and he definitely would've returned something at this TDL.

I don't understand this; why are we worrying about 3 years from now? A lot can change.

Look at next year:

21-22
Parise - ??? - Kaprizov
Boldy - Rossi - Fiala
Foligno - Eriksson-Ek - Zuccarello
Greenway - Sturm - ?

22-23:
Boldy - Rossi - Kaprizov
Parise 2021 rookie ??? - Fiala
Foligno - Eriksson - Ek - Zuccarello
???

By the time Foligno becomes an issue will be on the last year of his contract.

Beckman MAY break into the lineup in 22-23, but I'd put that as more 23-24 (20-21 in the WHL, 21-22, 22-23 in the AHL).

I also don't see a lot of top 6 wingers outside of Boldy pushing to get into the line up.

 

[Spurgeon]

I don't understand this; why are we worrying about 3 years from now? A lot can change.

Look at next year:

21-22
Parise - ??? - Kaprizov
Boldy - Rossi - Fiala
Foligno - Eriksson-Ek - Zuccarello
Greenway - Sturm - ?

22-23:
Boldy - Rossi - Kaprizov
Parise 2021 rookie ??? - Fiala
Foligno - Eriksson - Ek - Zuccarello
???

By the time Foligno becomes an issue will be on the last year of his contract.

Beckman MAY break into the lineup in 22-23, but I'd put that as more 23-24 (20-21 in the WHL, 21-22, 22-23 in the AHL).

I also don't see a lot of top 6 wingers outside of Boldy pushing to get into the line up.

I mean, it’s incredibly important to forecast the future outlook of a team for cap purposes. The fact of the matter is that we’re going to have a ton of skill on our wings and a guy like Foligno could very easily be the 4th line LW next year or the following year.

As I’ve said before, I like Foligno’s game and think he brings a lot on the defensive side of the game (and in his apparent leadership). I just think there’s a lot of people that aren’t accounting for the cap because it appears we have a lot. Soucy makes a lot for a 3rd line defenseman. Foligno is going to make a lot for a 4th line wing. We’re going to have a ton of money committed to our wings and we already have a ton of money committed to our defense.

Dumba will likely be traded though, which will allow the ELCs of Addison/Mennell to lighten the load.

 

[thestonedkoala]

The fact of the matter is that we’re going to have a ton of skill on our wings and a guy like Foligno could very easily be the 4th line LW next year or the following year.

Foligno appears to play on is off-wing as well (they moved him to right wing).

I don't see a ton of skill on the wings coming in; we're going to lose Johansson, opening up a slot in the top 6. That makes room for Boldy. Who else are we looking at?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Foligno appears to play on is off-wing as well (they moved him to right wing).

I don't see a ton of skill on the wings coming in; we're going to lose Johansson, opening up a slot in the top 6. That makes room for Boldy. Who else are we looking at?

Two of them are already there. Zuccarello, despite what people think of him here, is a skilled player. Greenway (as of now).

 

[123TripleDoge]

Which also ties into the question, what is gained by signing this contract now instead of the offseason?

Comfort for the player by showing that the team is invested in him, and not playing all year wondering where his next destination will be on an expiring deal. Not being sidetracked by negotiating during the season. If the numbers are right there's no point in not doing the deal here. The only caveat would've been if there was a wink wink agreement to re-sign after expansion, but since he doesn't need to be protected, that point is moot.

There's no proof that he "rushed" this deal or any others.

 

[Spurgeon]

Foligno appears to play on is off-wing as well (they moved him to right wing).

I don't see a ton of skill on the wings coming in; we're going to lose Johansson, opening up a slot in the top 6. That makes room for Boldy. Who else are we looking at?

Beckman will be here by 22-23 at the latest IMO. He’s a player that’s not going to be on a 4th line. There’s also a lot that can happen over the course of 4 years. I find it hard to believe that there won’t be at least 1 winger other than Boldy that finds their way onto this team. I simply don’t think Foligno is a 3rd line winger on a contending team.

Things will be clearer after the ED, but this is how I’d rank next year’s wing depth:

Fiala, Kap, Boldy, Zucc, Parise, Greenway, Foligno, Hartman

I think Greenway will be lost in the ED so Foligno will likely get 3rd line time next season, but the following season is when I see Beckman emerging.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Beckman will be here by 22-23 at the latest IMO.

That's a pretty big stretch goal for Beckman. 21-22, he'll have a season in the AHL. He could be a callup in 2022-2023, unless he absolutely destroys the AHL in his rookie debut and even that could be a stretch.

I find it hard to believe that there won’t be at least 1 winger other than Boldy that finds their way onto this team. I simply don’t think Foligno is a 3rd line winger on a contending team.

Foligno is considered to be an elite defensive forward, and one of the best PKers in the entire NHL. He may drop off some, but I see Foligno as a quintessential 3rd liner. That's why teams like Tampa Bay trade for guys like Goodrow.

Fiala, Kap, Boldy, Zucc, Parise, Greenway, Foligno, Hartman

Hartman probably won't be back, and Guerin is really down on Greenway. Unless Greenway has an explosive year, regardless if Seattle takes him or not, Guerin may ship him out.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Comfort for the player by showing that the team is invested in him, and not playing all year wondering where his next destination will be on an expiring deal. Not being sidetracked by negotiating during the season. If the numbers are right there's no point in not doing the deal here. The only caveat would've been if there was a wink wink agreement to re-sign after expansion, but since he doesn't need to be protected, that point is moot.

There's no proof that he "rushed" this deal or any others.

On the flip side, we had the perfect excuse to push the discussion until after the season without making him feel “unwanted”. In fact, it could’ve been the opposite.

 

[HotDish]

That's a pretty big stretch goal for Beckman. 21-22, he'll have a season in the AHL. He could be a callup in 2022-2023, unless he absolutely destroys the AHL in his rookie debut and even that could be a stretch.



Foligno is considered to be an elite defensive forward, and one of the best PKers in the entire NHL. He may drop off some, but I see Foligno as a quintessential 3rd liner. That's why teams like Tampa Bay trade for guys like Goodrow.



Hartman probably won't be back, and Guerin is really down on Greenway. Unless Greenway has an explosive year, regardless if Seattle takes him or not, Guerin may ship him out.

I seriously hope we trade greenway before we lose him for nothing to seattle.