Confirmed with Link: Flyers Sign Philippe Myers, D to ELC (9/21/15)

[deadhead]

The fact that Ron didn't want to give more than 2 years to a center, didn't sign an experienced RHD (Folin doesn't count), and hasn't made any of the big trades people keep suggesting simply supports that he's hasn't varied an iota from his long-term plan, and that is to build around his draft picks.

But Ron is also the one who hires/keeps the scouts, Gordon and Hakstol, and sets the philosophy for the organization.
And you read the same thing from the scouts talking to prospects, Gordon in Lehigh and Hakstol in Philly.
The organization values hockey IQ, responsible two way play, back checking, gap control, etc.
This is Hextall's approach to hockey, and if Hakstol was fired tomorrow, the next coach would adhere to this philosophy. Reliable players over flash.
SO GET OVER IT.

As far as my "opinions:"

I was one of the earliest champions of TK, I think he will be a great player in a few years, but he has a way to go, love his explosiveness, his fieriness, his raw skills. But he plays out of control at times, channeling his inner Rinaldo (without the stupid penalties), and he doesn't make players around him better - one of the marks of a great player like Couts. Couts was the same player on the 3rd line with dreck as he was on the first line with quality. TK plays down to his linemates. But TK will only be 21 this year, he's still maturing physically and as a player. Right now he's a top scorer with the right help, but he's not a top NHL player. That is still probably a couple years away. I know that distinction is too subtle for certain posters to grasp.

I simply don't see Giroux as a dominant player, a great PP QB, a very good even strength scorer, meh defensively, lacks size and speed and can't impose his will. It's OK to be a very good player but not quite HOF quality. I don't think Patrick Kane is a great player either, great scorer but that's not enough in my book (unless you're off the charts great as a scorer, i.e. Sidney). Giroux will bounce back in the playoffs when the 2nd and 3rd lines are good enough to take the pressure off him. But great players by definition don't need help, they are the help.

Ghost played like a 3rd pair defenseman in 2016-17.
2016-17: 0.48 pp/60, Corsi 52.86, CorsiRel +2.32, xGF 49.45, xGFrel -0.14, power play 4.89 pp/60 (16th in the league)/last year 6.85 (5th in the league)
Those are bad numbers for an undersized offensive defenseman.
Part of the problem was his injury, part of his problem was his refusal to change his game to compensate for his injury.

Ghost has also come up small in the playoffs, he has yet to score an even strength point in 12 playoff games.
12 games: 0.00 pp/60, Corsi 48.37, CorsiRel +1.61, xGF 42.81, xGFrel -0.44, power play 2.19 pp/60

Facts are facts, Ghost wasn't a good player in 2016-17, he was much better last season, but he has come up small went it counts.

 

[deadhead]

Getting back to Myers, I expect him to win a job in training camp, if he gets sent down, he'll be up with Vorobyev by January or so.
I expect him to struggle this year, make his share of mistakes, get benched once or twice. This is the norm for most rookies on most teams.
I also expect him to be a physical presence because of his speed and size. Just his shadow will intimidate some players.
I don't expect a lot of scoring, it's really hard for most rookies to put up big numbers, the game is too fast at first and they rush things and blow scoring chances.
You saw this with Lindblom and Sanheim last year, they could generate scoring chances but struggled to finish.

I expect a lot more of Sanheim, and will be really disappointed if he doesn't step up this year.
He got his feet wet, he knows what he has to do to improve, if he doesn't show up at TC stronger and more focused, that will not be a good thing.

 

[bauer]

By being an equally delusional contrarian or someone who also hates skill players.

But for the educated fan, it's impossible to value information from a source who is so aggressively wrong, so often.

Giroux isn't a franchise/elite player, Ghost is a 3rd pairing defensemen, Konecny is a bottom 6 forward who just got carried, all kinds of Sanheim lies, loves Hakstol, defends guys like Manning and Hagg, losing streaks are because of the stars, winning streaks are thanks to Hakstol, and so much more... and then on top of all that the lies, contradictions, and dishonesty seal it. It's not opinion differences, it's the intentional spreading of incorrect information for a super transparent agenda.

you forgot one of my favorites. for years many posters here have said that this team was in need of a top 6 LW sniper, only to have DH immediately jump in and proclaim how the team didn't need one and how stupid it would be to go after one. then Hextall goes out and signs one for 5 years saying it was a major need. just one of about 100 examples of how out of touch he is with this team.

and yeah, the constant lying is annoying as well. i don't think anyone minds the difference of opinions. we don't all agree on everything. but the constant lies and bulls**t that comes out of his mouth is crazy. he needs to learn to be more honest, it's ok not to be right about everything. and when you get called out on something, have the balls to stand up and admit you're wrong. i've never seen him do that once.

 

[deadhead]

JVR is a sniper?

I thought his strength was scoring around the net, not flying down the wing and letting loose killer wrist shots a la Boeser and Laine.

 

[Jettany]

Any old flyer fans see Phil Myers as a John Dailey type defenseman?

 

[Jtown]

Any old flyer fans see Phil Myers as a John Dailey type defenseman?

myers reminds me of a pronger lidstrom hybrid....but better.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Any old flyer fans see Phil Myers as a John Dailey type defenseman?

Myers is more of a Bobby Orr type

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

There can only be one John Daly.

 

[deadhead]

He's John Kruk's long lost brother.

 

[Stizzle]

 

[deadhead]

"he can be more of that stay at home, shutdown guy . . ."

No, I don't think so, not with Hakstol as HC, don't look now but defensemen have scored at a much higher rate at ES under Hakstol than Lavi.
We're talking Provorov, Ghost, MacDonald, and Manning v Kimmo, Carle, Meszaros, Coburn and Pronger.

Myers will get plenty of opportunities to score once he comes up in this scheme, and he's got the shot that will make him dangerous sneaking up the middle like Provorov.

When he's ready, he'll be a mainstay D-man, 66 minutes in that 5 OT game, that's just ridiculous, tells you what a bull he is.

 

[FlyTimmo]

No, I don't think so, not with Hakstol as HC, don't look now but defensemen have scored at a much higher rate at ES under Hakstol than Lavi.
We're talking Provorov, Ghost, MacDonald, and Manning v Kimmo, Carle, Meszaros, Coburn and Pronger.

A big factor is that the system they play is extremely ineffective at generating high percentage scoring chances close to the goal and they are forced to take long point shots to generate offense. This is partly a personnel problem and partly a system problem. Hakstol isn't an aggressive coach, nor does his preferred playstyle best suite Myers. He could be a force out there, but maybe his best attributes, his skating and aggressiveness, will not be put to best use here.

 

[deadhead]

I think that's a myth, look at Ghost among the league leaders in scoring, look at Provorov attacking the net and scoring goals.
Even better, look at Manning in the 30s in pp/60 5x5 among all defensemen, that's scheme not talent!

Hakstol likes to use one of the defensemen as a "4th forward" and take advantage of teams not accounting for both defensemen.
The other D-man plays it safe, now with Ghost and Provorov, Ghost "plays it safe" by hanging out by the blue line and making plays.
Gudas plays it safe by staying deep and shooting from the right top corner of the O-zone.
Hagg and Folin (and Morin some day) will be used in a similar fashion to Gudas, but players like Sanheim and Myers will be encouraged to attack the O-zone.

What Hakstol doesn't want is for them to skate end to end instead of looking to pass the puck to an open forward (the puck moves faster than a skater), or getting caught deep in the O-zone b/c they're too focused on scoring and don't realize the puck has changed possession and its time to put on the jets getting back on defense.

 

[FlyTimmo]

I think that's a myth, look at Ghost among the league leaders in scoring, look at Provorov attacking the net and scoring goals.
Even better, look at Manning in the 30s in pp/60 5x5 among all defensemen, that's scheme not talent!

Hakstol likes to use one of the defensemen as a "4th forward" and take advantage of teams not accounting for both defensemen.
The other D-man plays it safe, now with Ghost and Provorov, Ghost "plays it safe" by hanging out by the blue line and making plays.
Gudas plays it safe by staying deep and shooting from the right top corner of the O-zone.
Hagg and Folin (and Morin some day) will be used in a similar fashion to Gudas, but players like Sanheim and Myers will be encouraged to attack the O-zone

What Hakstol doesn't want is for them to skate end to end instead of looking to pass the puck to an open forward (the puck moves faster than a skater), or getting caught deep in the O-zone b/c they're too focused on scoring and don't realize the puck has changed possession and its time to put on the jets getting back on defense.

I might respond more in detail later, but there is a reason that the Flyers average the furthest shot distance from the goal in the NHL, as well as having mediocre at best 5v5 scoring. That sounds like a scheme issue to me. But, it isn't 100% the system. There still are personnel issues. Last year we were a one/two line team. Maybe that changes with the JVR and possible Frost addition.

 

[deadhead]

I think JVR and a healthy Simmonds will change that quite a bit, both work well near the net.
Giroux and TK aren't going to attack the net when you're set up in the O-zone, but Couts can work between the circles.
Lindblom is another who works well near the net. And Patrick with muscle should be a terror down there.
Weal is also good at finding "soft spots" near the net on offense (like a WR finding soft spots in a zone).

But the low to high also reflects Hakstol's wish to get the puck to an undercovered D-man who has room to make plays, with players like Provorov, Myers and Sanheim, I think you'll see D-men be more aggressive attacking since they all have the speed to recover, you don't want players like Hagg or Gudas to be caught down low, and even Manning and MacDonald didn't have the jets to get back if they were careless on offense.

Ghost is a special case, I think he works best getting the puck near the blue line, and using both his agility and vision to set up the defense and make plays, whether finding someone open near the net or firing through a crowd onto the net. What he had to learn was the patience to dump it back deep when there was nothing there instead of forcing a play, and wait for the puck to come back to him.

 

[Magua]

".....and you look at the direction Philadelphia is going: Travis Sanheim, Provorov, Robert Hagg.......I mean you're talking about Gostisbehere. A really young defensive core, that if you can keep these guys together, Myers doesn't have to come in and be a point producer."

 

[Striiker]

Peoples opinion on Hagg is the easiest way to tell if they watch games and have a clue what they’re talking about.

So many fail the test, especially hockey writers. I don’t expect national writers to know everything about every player, but then just don’t talk about the ones you’re not familiar with.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

A big factor is that the system they play is extremely ineffective at generating high percentage scoring chances close to the goal and they are forced to take long point shots to generate offense. This is partly a personnel problem and partly a system problem. Hakstol isn't an aggressive coach, nor does his preferred playstyle best suite Myers. He could be a force out there, but maybe his best attributes, his skating and aggressiveness, will not be put to best use here.

He’s a pretty aggressive coach. He had to tone down his forechecking system last season because he didn’t have the personnel to execute it & it was opening too many holes.

They have not been a deep team at forward 5 on 5 since he took over. For 2/3 seasons Giroux was not a good ES first line player. Simmonds is pretty much 3rd line caliber at ES. Filppula? Ha. Patrick wasn’t an NHL caliber player for half the season. Weal foundered. They simply don’t have many players who can create offense off the rush 5 on 5. But Provorov & Ghost are two of the best goal scoring defensemen in the league. Maybe the system was designed to get the best out of the personnel they have?

 

[Striiker]

An aggressive coach wouldn’t go turtle-mode at the end of games.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You think Gallant is a “turtle” for playing the hell out of Bellemare in the last 5 minutes with the lead?

 

[FlyTimmo]

He’s a pretty aggressive coach. He had to tone down his forechecking system last season because he didn’t have the personnel to execute it & it was opening too many holes.

They have not been a deep team at forward 5 on 5 since he took over. For 2/3 seasons Giroux was not a good ES first line player. Simmonds is pretty much 3rd line caliber at ES. Filppula? Ha. Patrick wasn’t an NHL caliber player for half the season. Weal foundered. They simply don’t have many players who can create offense off the rush 5 on 5. But Provorov & Ghost are two of the best goal scoring defensemen in the league. Maybe the system was designed to get the best out of the personnel they have?

There are plenty worse teams in the league with way worse personnel that outproduce the Flyers at 5v5 and manage to create higher percentage scoring chances. He isn't an aggressive coach. An aggressive coach doesn't turtle with a one goal lead in front of a team that doesn't have good goaltending and only has 2 to 3 good defenseman. Like really... . Talk about designing a strategy that poorly fits your team.

We have shaking goaltending and in reality only a couple solid defenseman. So, of course the best strategy is to turtle with a one goal lead early in 3rd periods, so that the other team can dominate possession and pepper whatever bozo we have in net that night. Better yet, he often relieves the teams best breakout defenseman of duties late in close games to allow even more icings and even more shots on goal.

 

[Adtar02]

You think Gallant is a “turtle” for playing the hell out of Bellemare in the last 5 minutes with the lead?

Didn’t see him say. That. He commented on our coach not Las Vegas

 

[Ghosts Beer]

There are plenty worse teams in the league with way worse personnel that outproduce the Flyers at 5v5 and manage to create higher percentage scoring chances. He isn't an aggressive coach. An aggressive coach doesn't turtle with a one goal lead in front of a team that doesn't have good goaltending and only has 2 to 3 good defenseman. Like really... . Talk about designing a strategy that poorly fits your team.

We have shaking goaltending and in reality only a couple solid defenseman. So, of course the best strategy is to turtle with a one goal lead early in 3rd periods, so that the other team can dominate possession and pepper whatever bozo we have in net that night. Better yet, he often relieves the teams best breakout defenseman of duties late in close games to allow even more icings and even more shots on goal.

Where do you think the Flyers ranked in the league talent-wise?

Vegas had them tied for 21st. They finished 12th.

I’m not seeing how Hakstol’s coaching made them finish worse than their talent.

I mean, you even acknowledge, “We have shaking goaltending and in reality only a couple solid defenseman.” And they still finished with 98 points & 12th in the league.

You think the forwards at ES were so talented to compensate for the D & goaltending? With Filppula, a 19 year old Patrick who was terrible for half the season, Simmonds who has never been anything special at ES & had an abysmal ES season due to injury?

Yeah, Giroux & Couturier both had two career seasons — most likely as a result of a coaching decision.

And I’ll ask you the same question — is Gallant “turtling” because he plays Bellemare when protecting a lead in the last few minutes? Do you think that he was coaching poorly?

The Flyers are not a deep team. They had to change from a more aggressive 1-1-3 to a more passive 1-2-2 in November because they didn’t have the talent to execute the more aggressive system. You acknowledge their weakness at goalie & D. Yet you are blasting the coach, alleging he cost them games by not being aggressive enough in the last few minutes. It just doesn’t jive.

 

[Adtar02]

You think it was a coaches decision not being healthy for giroux? Being healthy had no barring??

 

[Adtar02]

And for the record galant had a different team.