Pre-Game Talk: Flyers @ Sens 10/10 7:30

PeterSidorkiewicz

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Apr 30, 2004
32,442
9,701
Lansing, MI
office-2018020042-cecixco93.png


Last night, unblocked shots at EV were 17-9 in his favor despite being matched up against Philly's top line. He was also the only defenseman that didn't allow a goal against at EV, again, in spite of being matched up against their top line.


As someone into data visualization, I have to say this chart just seems absolutely awful to me converting the actual data into something visually appealing.

I have no comment on Ceci, just the fact I feel like if I presented a chart like that I would get nothing but blank stares and a billion questions. :laugh:

What is the very bottom bar chart showing exactly? The top chart isn't too terrible I guess.
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
We'll be able to hang with the bottom half of the league I'd think, we'll see. Man, every time the announcers mentioned a Philly player I was like 'he plays for Philly too?!?'

Voracek, Giroux, Couturier, Simmonds, Patrick, JVR, Ghostberry, Provorov, Konecny, Laughton, that's a good looking mix of solid vets and exciting young talent. Winning the lottery and getting Patrick was insane!

This is what I'd like us to look like in a couple of seasons... Real up and coming squad...
Philly is a bottom half team. Chicago is too. We lost to both of them.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
You new to This team? You know full well Smith would slide over to the wing and Formento or White would be sent down.

Which would be great. Formenton is still too young/skinny. Maybe next year would be a better time to graduate him. He will not impact the game like Tkachuk, Chabot or Lajoie so we can take a bit more time developing him. Regarding White, let him develop a role as the 4th line center for now. I want him to become really responsible. He needs pro experience and he's not a top-6 player at this point.

Tkachuk-Duchene-Dzingel
Ryan-Pageau-Stone
Smith-Tierney-Boedker
Paajarvi-White-Pyatt
McCormick

Chabot-DeMelo
Lajoie-Ceci
Borowiecki/Harpur-Wideman

Which sucks because Smith hasn't earned his role other than being a veteran

I dunno, he has some of the best stats on the team. Small sample size but impressive nonetheless.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

well ok.. I still don't think he should out there when we need a goal.. no jump no urgency. yeah during the duration of a hockey game or a couple games he will create some things.

Due to the nature of his game, he won't be the one driving a line or carrying the play. He's not fast, he's not agressive and not strong enough to be a powerforward. He will make nice zone entries or smart passes to continue the attack but he needs to play with the right players to keep him effective. I believe a guy like Tkachuk would be great. Duchene when he wakes up too, so you'd have :

Tkachuk-Duchene-Ryan

So 2 dynamic fast guys with Ryan as the playmaker. Ryan needs to play with skill and festiveness. He'd be useless with the Pyatts of this world.

so its been one game. not four .. why are you willing to say hes taken a step forward after 1 game. im saying he sucks based on 5 YEARS>

Because you're not considering situational stats. He didn't suck last night because he didn't have the hardest shutdown job in the whole league, maybe it was only because of so many penalties. Boucher might just go back on abusing him.

And I totally disagree with the 5 years.

Philly is a bottom half team. Chicago is too. We lost to both of them.

Totally disagree on Philly, however they don't have great goaltending. They finished 12th last year. Also, not sure about Chicago yet.
 
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Viletho

Registered User
Jan 20, 2015
3,863
1,327
Which would be great. Formenton is still too young/skinny. Maybe next year would be a better time to graduate him. He will not impact the game like Tkachuk, Chabot or Lajoie so we can take a bit more time developing him. Regarding White, let him develop a role as the 4th line center for now. I want him to become really responsible. He needs pro experience and he's not a top-6 player at this point.

Tkachuk-Duchene-Dzingel
Ryan-Pageau-Stone
Smith-Tierney-Boedker
Paajarvi-White-Pyatt
McCormick

Chabot-DeMelo
Lajoie-Ceci
Borowiecki/Harpur-Wideman
I agree that White should continue to play on the fourth line for now. But it could be fun to add to him a guy like chlapik or some kind of talented young player. So that they grow together.

Also, if he isn't going to get much ES time because he is on the 4th line, they need to give him PK time or PP time, he is a capable offensive player especially near the net.

Smith and Stone are doing well om the PK but the second PK should see White on it.

Special team make a huge difference in term of usage.
 
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swiftwin

★SUMMER.OF.PIERRE★
Jul 26, 2005
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As someone into data visualization, I have to say this chart just seems absolutely awful to me converting the actual data into something visually appealing.

I have no comment on Ceci, just the fact I feel like if I presented a chart like that I would get nothing but blank stares and a billion questions. :laugh:

What is the very bottom bar chart showing exactly? The top chart isn't too terrible I guess.

Seems pretty obvious to me. Hits, faceoffs and penalties his linemates have drawn are in grey, the ones in black are by Ceci himself. Left side is for opponents.
 

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,703
9,650
Montreal, Canada
It's not even because I'm a fan. I like Andy but he's not near the top of my favorite Sens or even active goaltenders in the NHL. It's the irrational hate for a number of players on here, it doesn't matter what happens, but if certain players are on the ice, posters will find a way to place the blame on them. It's impossible to have an actual discussion about hockey with most because they are so set on pointing out mistakes or looking for ways to blame certain players.

Heck, sometimes those culprits are even blamed when they are NOT on the ice! like Ceci last night :laugh:

Actually, it would be nice to have an "alter-GDT", a place just for game observation and analytical purposes, so not a place for rant and emotional reactions. To simplify, it could be an ongoing GDT for the season. Seriously, I would like that because it would be so much faster and more interesting to read if you cut the crap (blaming game, whining, bashing, ranting, cognitive bias, etc). We'd have to be disciplined though so if I want to rant or blame (happens to everybody heh), I'd have to go on the other GDT. But it's easy as you can have several pages open

I agree that White should continue to play on the fourth line for now. But it could be fun to add to him a guy like chlapik or some kind of talented young player. So that they grow together.

Also, if he isn't going to get much ES time because he is on the 4th line, they need to give him PK time or PP time, he is a capable offensive player especially near the net.

Smith and Stone are doing well om the PK but the second PK should see White on it.

Special team make a huge difference in term of usage.

Yeah maybe instead of Paajarvi who is completely useless IMO. Or Pyatt who does many good things but is not strong enough in the end.

We have to be patient with young players and integrate them progressively. White doesn't have a ton of pro experience, I think he is a guy who will progressively get better while guys like Tkachuk and Chabot are studs right away, and surprisingly, maybe Lajoie too lol

Let me know when the B-Sens come to Laval, we should go ;)
 
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PeterSidorkiewicz

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Apr 30, 2004
32,442
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Lansing, MI
Seems pretty obvious to me. Hits, faceoffs and penalties his linemates have drawn are in grey, the ones in black are by Ceci himself. Left side is for opponents.

Why is the left side opponents when its labeled defenders on the left side?

The chart is way too convoluted.

So just to clarify, Ceci drew 1 penalty took 0 penalties, and his on ice teammates took no penalties and drew no penalties in those 20 minues TOI?
 
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swiftwin

★SUMMER.OF.PIERRE★
Jul 26, 2005
23,559
12,935
Why is the left side opponents when its labeled defenders on the left side?

The chart is way too convoluted.

So just to clarify, Ceci drew 1 penalty took 0 penalties, and his on ice teammates took no penalties and drew no penalties in those 20 minues TOI?

Because that's for the chart above it.

And yes, your bottom statement is correct.

The chart has 4 sections:
-Shots for/against
-Location of shots for/against
-Time on ice, including linemates/opponents
-Actions (hits, penalties and faceoffs) during time on ice, including those of linemates/opponents while on the ice
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,157
9,903
As someone into data visualization, I have to say this chart just seems absolutely awful to me converting the actual data into something visually appealing.

I have no comment on Ceci, just the fact I feel like if I presented a chart like that I would get nothing but blank stares and a billion questions. :laugh:

What is the very bottom bar chart showing exactly? The top chart isn't too terrible I guess.

Fancy charts are nothing but a way to intimidate people into agreeing with you through authoritative means
 
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Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
64,989
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It's 4 games in though. They are getting sheltered minutes because that's what they need right now. Once they show that they can handle those minutes they will get more. Chabot was the same deal last year and it looks to have been positive for him.

The kids need to not only earn more ice time, but play confident in the reduced ice time the start with. Sheltering them isn't a negative, like you would shelter a player that lacks skill, it's a positive where you're protecting a young player's confidence and making sure that they aren't on the hook for blame as much as possible.

White has not shown much, I remember hearing his name for the first time in the second period and thinking 'oh yeah, he's playing'. It's actually helpful when you have two other rookies in BT and ML that are on fire to start. Tierney is looking like a real good NHLer, as is Boedker so we can afford to shelter the kids just a little.

Outside the 1st game where he was deployed with Stone and Smith.. I agree. I did not like that they moved him with Duchene the next game and said so before the game. He ended up getting his ice time cut considerably. After than he has been essentially on the 4th line. I agree he has to earn it. I agree he hasn't done a whole lot playing on the 4th line with other shifts sprinkled here and there.

SKef5M.jpg


For a young rookie player every game is a big game where they want to perform. Starting the game at 1:31 of ice in the 1st period.. does absolutely nothing positive for the kid and it makes it an up hill battle to feel your way into the game. I am not just saying .. give White better minutes or give White more icetime.. My stance is this.. If he isn't good enough to get on the ice in situations where he can develop an array of skills both offensively and defensively .. send him the hell down where he can play and develop. We know he has some good pluses in his game .. and he needs to grow those and improve .. If he is not good enough for a role here that is above 4th line filler minutes .. send him down.
 
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PeterSidorkiewicz

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Apr 30, 2004
32,442
9,701
Lansing, MI
If the goal is to get people to nod and pretend they understand yes :laugh:

And I mean "fancy" in a negative way, I assume that you are not into fancy charts and co. but effective ones.

Yeah I was just joking.

I find it to be quite the skill to take data, know the data people really need, and convert that data into a visualization that is effective, yet simplistic enough where someone can look at it and have very few questions. It sure as hell isn't easy!
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,157
9,903
Yeah I was just joking.

I find it to be quite the skill to take data, know the data people really need, and convert that data into a visualization that is effective, yet simplistic enough where someone can look at it and have very few questions. It sure as hell isn't easy!

Agreed.

This is why I find game design such an interesting topic: create a system that leads people to behave in a very specific way. Fascinating stuff.
 

solidprospect

Borveetzky
Sep 30, 2017
4,422
1,274
They absolutely are with Pickard and Elliott as their goalies. That team is bad. The Sharks walked all over them the other night. They had 24 shots against in a single period.
Yeah and they still had 98 points last year. Elliotts GAA was 2.66 last year. That's not bottom half.
 

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
Yeah and they still had 98 points last year. Elliotts GAA was 2.66 last year. That's not bottom half.
He also had a .909 sv% and the year before .910. That's not gonna cut it. That team's D sucks. They were 13th in the league last year with 98 points, Florida missed the playoffs with 96 points in the East. The cut off in the west was 95 in Colorado who were the final seed. Philly will be a bottom half team until their goaltending is improved.
 

solidprospect

Borveetzky
Sep 30, 2017
4,422
1,274
He also had a .909 sv% and the year before .910. That's not gonna cut it. That team's D sucks. They were 13th in the league last year with 98 points, Florida missed the playoffs with 96 points in the East. The cut off in the west was 95 in Colorado who were the final seed. Philly will be a bottom half team until their goaltending is improved.
98 Points last season put them 13th in the NHL out 31 teams.They may need a better goalie to help them go further in the playoffs but they already have a goalie good enough to get them there. Elliott only played in 44 games last year. Ghost and Provorov on the upswing.

Chicago is the bad team, with declining d and goaltending, finshed 25th in the league last year.
 

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