CupsOverCash
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2009
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According to HockeyReference his goalies had a .918 SV% at even strength when he was on the ice which is not good so his goalies definitely weren't bailing him out. Regardless, in one post you say Ghost is a trainwreck defensively but conveniently don't mention it here when trying to make it seem like Provorov isn't good defensively. Is it possible that the "trainwreck" defender is the cause for those scoring chances? How do the charts say defenders perform with and without Provorov? Which side of the ice are the majority of the shots and chances coming from?
I know you like to play with stats and all, that's a great tool, but actually watching games can be a good thing too. You can watch Provorov play and see that he's good. Check the box scores and see that the results were good. But instead, let's use hypothetical like shots and chances to form an opinion. It's not like a team with terrible possession numbers just won the Cup or anything.
Define effective.
Last season.
14th in the leaague in GA/GP. Two spots ahead of the Caps.
5th in fewest shots against per game.
You were saying?
Regarding the bolded, I see what you're saying and I know you aren't really arguing it but it's easy to see that none of that is true about Provorov. He played 24 minutes a game for a playoff team last season and every night would draw the toughest matchups. He finished +17 and tied for 8th in ES points and 1st in goals among defenseman while playing less than 2 minutes a game on the PP (2nd unit). he was an absolute rock and earned those minutes.
Provorov is good. Still overrated af
But ghost is garbage. And their other young dman arent good.
Atleast philly fans have been knocked down a peg. Was sick of them claiming to have a future elite dcore. Dont look elite to me lmao
Provorov is good. Still overrated af
But ghost is garbage. And their other young dman arent good.
Atleast philly fans have been knocked down a peg. Was sick of them claiming to have a future elite dcore. Dont look elite to me lmao
Provarov is the real deal. Ghost is a solid top 4 guy as well. Honestly the only place their other d prospects were overrated was this board when some Flyers fans convinced themselves they had 5 future top pairing guys in the pipeline
Oh scoring chances. That is such a precise stat. LOLI'll tell you what it isn't....
9th worst scoring chances for %
13th worst high danger scoring chances for %.
Depends what you consider "really good".
Provorov is a good defenseman for sure. But I've seen Flyers fans refer to him as a top 10 dman in the NHL. That is, without a doubt, overrated. While on the ice he is outshot, outchanced, outCorsi-ed........
Ghost scores a lot, but he's a trainwreck in his own end, on the rare occasions he's even allowed on the ice in his own zone (although, he isn't actually allowed out there when it's in their own zone, most of the ice time he gets in his own zone follows a faceoff in the oppositions zone).
I understand you want to blame all this on the coach, and their d partners. And you may even be right. But until these guys actually prove they CAN dominate, you can't assume they will with a different coach. Because as of now, these guys may be young and playing big roles, but they're not really doing so successfully.
The only one that is a bust is Morin.
My fellow Flyers' fans can fight me on that, but IMO they're delusional if they think he ever tops out at more than a bottom pair guy if he even becomes an NHL regular at all. That's not what you want from an 11th overall pick.
Morin may be the worst 1st round pick the org has made since what? like 2000? I'll give them a pass because I understand the logic that *if* he hits his potential, he could be a poor man's Pronger because it's rare you find big dmen who can skate. Instead he's trending to a better skating version of Boris Valabik.
Provarov is the real deal. Ghost is a solid top 4 guy as well. Honestly the only place their other d prospects were overrated was this board when some Flyers fans convinced themselves they had 5 future top pairing guys in the pipeline
Provorov - He's better than 'good', he's a very good defenseman, currently top 20 in my eyes and he will be top 10. I haven't seen many (or any to that matter) people say he's currently top 10. A considerable amount of the praise comes from rival fans too, which says a lot.
Ghost - I'm a little tired of this. He isn't a trainwreck in his own end so please stop furthering this ridiculous narrative. We give him a lot of o-zone starts because that's where his strengths lie and why not utilise his strengths?
We want to blame it on the coach and the PK coach, because they're the major problem with this team and a rising tide lifts all boats. Provorov was a top defenseman in the league last year and still is. Ghost was one of the premier offensive defensemen in the league last year and still is. They've both done it very successfully for some time, and you're gauging your opinion over what....9 slightly undewhelming games?
In reality, they are promising but none of the parts are where we thought they would be at and as a group, they no longer look like something we all want to emulate.
Please... let’s make some outlandish comments based off of a 9 game sample size.Lets talk about it, Flyers spent a couple of high picks over the past couple of years drafting D prospects and outside of Gostisbehere selected in the third round of the 2012 draft, no one is looking very good... I recall watching Provorov at the Memorial cup, quietly thinking that this kid was soooo overrated while alot of people were praising him as a top end prospect lol, well about 3 years later, he didnt do anything to prove me wrong and doubt about my scepticism, vanilla player to say the least, he is average at everything, gets beat defensively and doesnt generate much offensively... Sanheim 17th overall, Morin 11 th overall, how disappointing it must be for the fans while they were all thinking that their scouting staff was building an elite blueline no long ago... My point here is not to troll anyone, Im just pointing out something that is becoming evident for any hockey fan, Flyers' young D core is simply not very good and certainly overrated! Lets hope Carter Hart becomes a solid number one, cause they really need it!
Ghost - I'm a little tired of this. He isn't a trainwreck in his own end so please stop furthering this ridiculous narrative. We give him a lot of o-zone starts because that's where his strengths lie and why not utilise his strengths?
Provy maybe but ghost is a third pair pp player.Both Provorov and Ghost are bonafide top pairing defensemen. Where exactly did you think they would be?
Top 20 - exactly, overrated. This is exactly what posters refer to when they say overrated.,
You can say it until you're blue in the face, it won't make it true. Ghost IS a trainwreck defensively.
That's 5v5 instead of ES so I guess that's where the discrepancy comes in. Regardless, what's your point? How does that point to Provorov being good or bad?Natural stat trick says .924 last year.
Ivan Provorov - Summary - Natural Stat Trick
See bottom of page.
Yes flyers fans think provotov is league top 20 and ghost is good defensively.I'm pretty sure you're in a minority if you don't think he is. He slots in at 18 on my list if i remember correctly.
And i'll say it as long as i like because I actually watch him play. Ghost is absolutely more than passable in his own end, it's just that his errors are more high profile and obvious than the less flashy skaters who probably don't get the same level of critique.
That's 5v5 instead of ES so I guess that's where the discrepancy comes in. Regardless, what's your point? How does that point to Provorov being good or bad?
I'm not sure where you're getting that I'm mad at you. I just asked you why you think his oiSV% is relevant and I still don't see your point. His oiSV% wasn't even "really good" as you said. It's not like his goalies had a .950SV% or something and they were bailing him out.One of your Flyers friends pointed to +17 as some sort of evidence in favour of Provorov. He had pretty bad scoring chance %s, just a really good on ice sv%.
Don't get mad at me. Your Flyers fan friends are pointing to +/-. Maybe have a word with them.
at 5v5 that ranks pretty high.I'm not sure where you're getting that I'm mad at you. I just asked you why you think his oiSV% is relevant and I still don't see your point. His oiSV% wasn't even "really good" as you said. It's not like his goalies had a .950SV% or something and they were bailing him out.