Proposal: Flyers-Devils

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Only, if you seriously think that Zacha will get you Sanheim. Right?

I never asked that and the fact that you think that thats an equal comparable is hilarious

 

[Cult of Hynes]

No for both teams.

 

[Riptide]

Just like Flyers fans are deluding themselves that they're happy Patrick fell to them.

Well seeing how they were originally slated to be picking 13 (or whatever it was), I'm sure they're overjoyed that they had to "settle" for Patrick.

 

[Csonked Out]

4 pages of this non sense...... we are one of the worst offensive teams in the league. It would be beyond dumb to even think of trading a young offensive player with a lot of potential in our current situation, especially to the Flyers.

We will continue to stockpile as many young offensive players as possible during this rebuild.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

You said he was "massively overrated". I wouldn't call the difference between people thinking he could be reliable #4 and you thinking he could be a #6 massive. He may be overrated to some, but I don't see many fans with strong opinions regarding him so it is kind of strange to call him very overrated.

You probably just haven't watched much of Morin. He is big, but he actually does have some decent speed. When the Flyers drafted him, he was raw to say the least. He will and has the largest developmental curve out of all our d-prospects. It will take him a long time to become that middle pair guy, maybe that is why you/others are pretty down on him.

I caught about 10 Phantoms games last year in person and several more on TV. Probably about the same the previous season. I'd imagine that's more than a lot of people, but maybe not. And being a top 4, which implies he has potential to be a top pair D man, compared to a fringe NHLer at 6/7 I think is a pretty big difference.

I respect the opinion that he may be a top 4 D man. I can't say he won't be. I just don't personally agree. I did acknowledge that D men take a very long time to develop, so I see your point about his development curve. I really don't have anything against the guy; and as I have several rational and respectable Flyer fan friends, I really don't hate the team the way a lot of other Devils fans do. As a Devils fan there is no doubt some bias, but I feel it a lot easier to be objective about the Flyers than I do about any other divisional rivals. LV was an incredible team to watch last season. They straight dominated teams. And it's only a piece of the Flyers prospect pool down there. There is so much potential in that group. I just don't see as much in Morin as others do. That's all.

 

[FlyTimmo]

I caught about 10 Phantoms games last year in person and several more on TV. Probably about the same the previous season. I'd imagine that's more than a lot of people, but maybe not. And being a top 4, which implies he has potential to be a top pair D man, compared to a fringe NHLer at 6/7 I think is a pretty big difference.

I respect the opinion that he may be a top 4 D man. I can't say he won't be. I just don't personally agree. I did acknowledge that D men take a very long time to develop, so I see your point about his development curve. I really don't have anything against the guy; and as I have several rational and respectable Flyer fan friends, I really don't hate the team the way a lot of other Devils fans do. As a Devils fan there is no doubt some bias, but I feel it a lot easier to be objective about the Flyers than I do about any other divisional rival. LV was an incredible team to watch last season. They straight dominated teams. And it's only a piece of the Flyers prospect pool down there. There is so much potential in that group. I just don't see as much in Morin as others do. That's all.

Not to be rude or anything, but how does having top 4 potential imply that he has legitimate top pair potential?

This season will be a good point to gauge how far he has come/needs to go. He will/should make the team. He will/should play in a defensive role and will not be asked to do anything crazy. If he does fine in that role and looks like an NHL quality player there is no reason to think he can't be a solid middle pair guy. And LV would have been a lot more fun to watch if the coach thought of the AHL as a developmental league so some of the other good young guys got quality PP time and good minutes.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Not to be rude or anything, but how does having top 4 potential imply that he has legitimate top pair potential?

This season will be a good point to gauge how far he has come/needs to go. He will/should make the team. He will/should play in a defensive role and will not be asked to do anything crazy. If he does fine in that role and looks like an NHL quality player there is no reason to think he can't be a solid middle pair guy. And LV would have been a lot more fun to watch if the coach thought of the AHL as a developmental league so some of the other good young guys got quality PP time and good minutes.

It's fine to ask the question. To me, if someone tells me a defenseman has top 4 NHL potential that means 1st or 2nd pair. So anywhere from a #1 to a #4. I get that no one is implying he will be a #1, but top four does include spots 1 through 4. If you think he would be a middle pair player, that's a 3/4. Semantics I suppose.

Regardless, I think there is a significant gap between a middle pair, steady, long term NHL defenseman, which is what I think people expect, and a guy who is a fringe NHLer to bottom pair at best player, which is what I see.

 

[tictactoe]

I never asked that and the fact that you think that thats an equal comparable is hilarious

and I never quoted or addressed you.. i also never said that that's an equal comparable.. bottom line I was never talking to you.

 

[Tripod]

He hasn't done anything to show he can be a top 4 dman. He has some of the worst advanced stats on the Phantoms and is only being regarded as high upside, which is what top 4 means, because he is tall and was taken 11th overall in a good draft. Think of it this way, in his draft +4 season, Philly was somewhat close to a playoff spot, traded Streit and he still didnt get a call up. They were trotting out NIck Schultz and Andrew MacDonald over him

I don't see much more than a 6/7 guy at the NHL level. So to me, he is overrated at a top 4 spot. Don't worry, you have plenty of other NHL top 4 talent in that pool. I think Morin is propped up by the rest.

Can we keep these comments and see how relevant they are in a few years?

Morin will be the perfect partner for Ghost or Sanheim. He will be a mainstay on the PK and a beast defensively.

Having him on one PK, then Provy on the other will definitely help our PK going forward.

 

[Curufinwe]

AHL advanced stats are nothing but glorified plus minus. Thankfully Flyers fans aren't desperate enough to use them to write off Mueller before seeing him play in the NHL, even though his draft team gave up on him in his draft +4 season.

 

[Curufinwe]

I caught about 10 Phantoms games last year in person and several more on TV. Probably about the same the previous season. I'd imagine that's more than a lot of people, but maybe not. And being a top 4, which implies he has potential to be a top pair D man, compared to a fringe NHLer at 6/7 I think is a pretty big difference.

I respect the opinion that he may be a top 4 D man. I can't say he won't be. I just don't personally agree. I did acknowledge that D men take a very long time to develop, so I see your point about his development curve. I really don't have anything against the guy; and as I have several rational and respectable Flyer fan friends, I really don't hate the team the way a lot of other Devils fans do. As a Devils fan there is no doubt some bias, but I feel it a lot easier to be objective about the Flyers than I do about any other divisional rivals. LV was an incredible team to watch last season. They straight dominated teams. And it's only a piece of the Flyers prospect pool down there. There is so much potential in that group. I just don't see as much in Morin as others do. That's all.

The Phantoms scored a lot of goals, but they weren't a dominant team. A lot of the veterans, particularly TJ Brennan, were not pulling their weight on defense and the coach didn't implement much in the way of structure. Morin-Sanheim was used as the shutdown pairing, while Brennan got to play as a rover with a babysitter like Hagg or Willcox. Where Brennan did contribute a lot was to the Phantoms 5th ranked PP. They also had the 5th ranked PK, with Morin, Hagg and Sanheim as the mainstays on defense.

 

[Tripod]

Stop posting facts Curu. Morin is a bust because NJ fans say so.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

The Phantoms scored a lot of goals, but they weren't a dominant team. A lot of the veterans, particularly TJ Brennan, were not pulling their weight on defense and the coach didn't implement much in the way of structure. Morin-Sanheim was used as the shutdown pairing, while Brennan got to play as a rover with a babysitter like Hagg or Willcox. Where Brennan did contribute a lot was to the Phantoms 5th ranked PP. They also had the 5th ranked PK, with Morin, Hagg and Sanheim as the mainstays on defense.

Most of the games I was at, they were clearly the better team. Even games they lost. I absolutely agree with the lack of structure assessment though. Very reminiscent of the big club at times.

Stop posting facts Curu. Morin is a bust because NJ fans say so.

I don't understand posts like this. I feel like I was respectfully expressing an opinion. I never once stated anything as fact or even alluded to something being fact. I could be wrong, just as you could be. By all means, save my post. Rub it in my face if I'm wrong. And don't worry, if you're wrong, I won't save your posts and rub them in your face because that seems like a petty waste of time to me.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I'm a Zacha fan but no way I do this. Maybe Morin?

That 16 point season in the AHL is really enticing, that sort of offensive potential should really translate to the NHL. New Jersey and Philadelphia would be great trading partners if they weren't division rivals. This thread is silly.

 

[Starat327]

That 16 point season in the AHL is really enticing, that sort of offensive potential should really translate to the NHL. New Jersey and Philadelphia would be great trading partners if they weren't division rivals. This thread is silly.

I get the feeling you dont know who Morin is, or what he is supposed to be.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I get the feeling you dont know who Morin is, or what he is supposed to be.

I get the feeling I know exactly what Morin is and what the bare minimum offense you need in CHL and AHL to get a top 4 role in the NHL.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Counter offer:

To New Jersey: LW Tyrell Goulbourne

To Philly: Conditional 2019 7th round pick

Condition is, Goulbourne being qualified and re-signing by NJ, then philly gets the 7th in 2019.
If condition is not met then Philadelphia gets nothing for trading Goulbourne.

Same as the PHI-NJ Petr Straka deal last season.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I get the feeling I know exactly what Morin is and what the bare minimum offense you need in CHL and AHL to get a top 4 role in the NHL.

If Morin does stick in the NHL it won't be in a top 4 role in his rookie season.

Sam Morin is simply a stay at home defensemen that won't put up many points.
Morin job is going to be that of a shut down defender and penalty killer period.
Sam won't be asked to put points on the board, Philadelphia has plenty of other defenders to put points up on the score board.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

If Morin does stick in the NHL it won't be in a top 4 role in his rookie season.

Sam Morin is simply a stay at home defensemen that won't put up many points.
Morin job is going to be that of a shut down defender and penalty killer period.
Sam won't be asked to put points on the board, Philadelphia has plenty of other defenders to put points up on the score board.

I know that. However, in todays game points can often times be a good indication if a player is capable of being a possession players, aka move the puck, or if they will be a black hole.

 

[swflyers93]

Who is Zacha? Honestly, I haven't heard much about him. But no, I wouldn't trade Sanheim at all.

 

[belair]

Jersey needs somebody to cover for Zajac. What's the ask on Filppula?

 

[Starat327]

Jersey needs somebody to cover for Zajac. What's the ask on Filppula?

Flyers shouldn't move him unless we're out at the deadline. The plan is to use Flip to support Patrick at C, and to cover for injuries.

My guess is you d be better served looking at Bozak, better offensively, and likely more available.

 

[BritainStix]

I know that. However, in todays game points can often times be a good indication if a player is capable of being a possession players, aka move the puck, or if they will be a black hole.

I've read some rubbish on the main boards before, but this is absolute nonsense.

Chara and Gudas off the top of my head put up paltry numbers in the AHL. I bet you could find another 100 examples. Just absolute lazy stat checking.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Good choice of names...

 

[He Is Knocking]

I get the feeling you dont know who Morin is, or what he is supposed to be.

I'm more stoked about Morin this season than Patrick believe it or not. I'd like to see Hagg and Morin play well enough to make the jump and season Sanheim for one more year....at any rate it's a great spot to be in.