Flyers Cap Team

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,823
86,175
Nova Scotia
No, it's not dumb.

1) Is TK a 50 point player? We're not talking projecting late round picks, we're talking Lindblom (top forward in SHL at age 20), Farabee #14, Ratcliffe #35 (Ron liked him so much he traded up), Rubtsov #22, Laughton #20 who may have limitations at center but has potential at LW. Not all of them will pan out, but a couple should. And that's the key, there is safety in numbers, we have so many numbers we're bound to hit the "hockey lottery."

2) Skinner has been solid, last three years (23-25), 2.03 pp/60, Corsi 52.42, CorsiRel -0.09, xGF 52.12, xGFrel +1.03, but he's not an elite winger.
He's averaged 14 minutes 5x5 in Carolina, but only 3.82 pp/60 on the PP, so in Philly he'd be a 12 minute 5x5%, PP2 player (or 14-15 minutes a night total).
Not because he's a bad player, but he's not beating out Giroux and JVR. And one of those four guys will provide similar production at a fraction of the cost on the 3rd line. Because here Skinner is a 30-35 ES wing with 5-10 on the PP, or 35-45 points, not 50+. How many points would say Laughton give you as Frost's LW? Or Lindblom?

That's really the issue going forward, with the depth Ron has built, either a FA has to be elite (and worthy of moving a big salary to make room for him), or at a position of need - but going forward, what position of need will we probably (because crap happens) have?
No...TK is not a 50 point player yet. He should break that barrier this year.

2nd of all, you never listed Lindblom in your post. You said: "Don't want Skinner at all, I don't think in two years he'll be able to beat out Ratcliffe/Farabee/Rubtsov/Laughton at LW."

Only Laughton will be in the NHL from that group this year. Then in year 2, will be NHL rookies. Will they be 50 point 3rd liners in their 2nd year...not likely considering TK wasn't and spent half the year on the top line.

Then for Skinner, you are under valuing him. He has put up 60+ point seasons before. The 50 points is almost the floor, yet you are saying he would get even less. With his shot, he easily bumps out Couts as well on the PP.

And as I said before, we have no need for Skinner once we added JVR. But that does not mean these kids will be better than him in 2 years. That's just dumb to say and underselling a 26 year old with multiple 30 goal seasons.

Side note....I love you mentioning TK considering you spent all last season saying he is not a top 6 player yet because he can't lead his own line. Something Skinner has done for years.
 
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BackToTheBrierePatch

Nope not today.
Feb 19, 2003
66,186
24,586
Concord, New Hampshire
Trading him for long term futures was the obvious choice and im really dissapointed that it wasn't done

Well we really dont know if a team offered a acceptable offer. It is speculation.
I thought he might get traded after most of the big fish went off the board in FA.
Hopefully this past season was a aberration with him health wise, but there has to be some concern that playing the physical game he plays has started to catch up with him.
 

David St Hubbins

Well, you're not as confused as he is.
Jan 24, 2016
2,010
3,357
Deskfront, facing WSW
Like I’ve said before, it’s crazy, but how crazy would it be to offer him 10x2. We have the space. 2 years is ideal. It’s a lot of money up front for him, that could be 13m year one and 7 in year two. I really doubt something like this would ever happen, but it depends on him. Does he want to get paid and play a long time, or can you just entice him w the payday and another crack at UFA in 2 years.

$10Mx2 is $20M guaranteed

$7Mx5 is $35M guaranteed

If you are getting near the end of your career and had a very bad injury season, which would you take?
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
No...TK is not a 50 point player yet. He should break that barrier this year.

2nd of all, you never listed Lindblom in your post. You said: "Don't want Skinner at all, I don't think in two years he'll be able to beat out Ratcliffe/Farabee/Rubtsov/Laughton at LW."

Only Laughton will be in the NHL from that group this year. Then in year 2, will be NHL rookies. Will they be 50 point 3rd liners in their 2nd year...not likely considering TK wasn't and spent half the year on the top line.

Then for Skinner, you are under valuing him. He has put up 60+ point seasons before. The 50 points is almost the floor, yet you are saying he would get even less. With his shot, he easily bumps out Couts as well on the PP.

And as I said before, we have no need for Skinner once we added JVR. But that does not mean these kids will be better than him in 2 years. That's just dumb to say and underselling a 26 year old with multiple 30 goal seasons.

Side note....I love you mentioning TK considering you spent all last season saying he is not a top 6 player yet because he can't lead his own line. Something Skinner has done for years.

First, two years from now is 2020-21, this year is 2018-19, next year 2019-20, two years from now is when they have to start worrying about the cap as the RFA contracts start to add up.

TK was 20 years old last year, brought up at 19, that reflects the Flyers lack of depth. And he clearly struggled with anyone but the first line. I think his second half scoring was partially playing with Giroux and Couts, and partially maturing - but he still has some growing up to do.

Lindblom will be 24 in two years, Laughton 26, Ratcliffe 22, Rubtsov 23, Farabee 21.
And Skinner won't put up 50+ points on the 3rd line and PP2. He's a solid 2.0 pp/60 scorer (3yr average, 1.79 last year), good but not elite.
[13 minutes, 1040 for season, 35 5x5 points, 36-40 ES points plus PP2 points]
TK, despite playing half the season off the 1st line, put up 2.27 pp/60.

My darkhorse is Laughton if he gets to play LW with a center who can pass, three years ago he put up 1.79 pp/60, the offensive skills are there, give him a center who can pass and take defensive responsibilities off his shoulders and I think he'd blossom.

Lindblom was a top forward in the SHL at 20, Frost might be perfect for him because speed is the one thing Lindblom lacks, otherwise in the right situation he's shown he can score. He needs to slow the game down but the skills are there.

Ratcliffe has size, speed, hands, how fast he'll mature remains to be seen, but if he builds on last season he can be a high scorer almost immediately, even if it's one more junior, one AHL, in 2020-21 he should be ready to push for a starting job.

Farabee is an unknown, but young players have exploded on the scene before, two years in college and direct to the NHL is feasible.

Note - we're talking one out of four coming close to 2.0 pp/60. Which would be about 70th in the league last season.
I don't expect all four to pan out, I'd be happy if we have two solid LWs who can score between 1.75-2.0 pp/60 in that group.
But with this kind of talent coming up, you'd only add a FA who could push JVR or Voracek to the 3rd line (or traded, because that's an expensive 3rd line forward).
 

Appleyard

Registered User
Mar 5, 2010
31,769
41,188
Copenhagen
twitter.com
Konecny played well on other lines over his career so far as well.

Konecny-Couturier-Voracek was good last year.

Konecny-Filppula-Raffl was more than solid this year together... maybe the best Flip played this season on a line.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Practically anyone with Couts was good the last three years, heck, he made Weise look good!
If you look at TK and Voracek off the first line last year, both struggled to score but Voracek's other stats remained at the same level, TK's fell off substantially.
It's not a knock on TK, how many 20 year old forwards who are still maturing physically can carry the load?
 

mdm815

Registered User
Dec 22, 2005
1,261
799
pa
$10Mx2 is $20M guaranteed

$7Mx5 is $35M guaranteed

If you are getting near the end of your career and had a very bad injury season, which would you take?

20 million in just two years tho, same concept as lump sum in a lottery. Sure it’s safely 10m less than he could get over a five year deal, but it’s still a huge sum of money in a short space of time. And if he’s betting on himself having at least 3 more years of prime, he’d still have a crack at another paycheck.

As others have said though, it’s head vs heart and head says he doesn’t fit long term, or possibly even short term.
 

GapToothedWonder

Registered User
Dec 20, 2013
5,228
8,939
Paris of the Praries
I'm generally huge on asset management and getting something of worth from players instead of just letting them become UFAs.

That being said if having Simmonds here for the whole year means we are able to win a few playoff rounds with his help, I think it is worth it to keep him and then let him walk. The asset we gain is playoff experience for guys like

Provo
Ghost
Sanheim
Myers
Hagg
Neck
Lindblom
Patrick
Laughton

And possibly
Frost
The Pimp
NAK

All those guys will or reasonably could be on the roster come play off time and all have played in two or less playoff rounds both of which went fairly poorly.

Getting them some good winning playoff experience and seeing how Simmonds and the other vets handle themselves in the playoffs could have a very positive impact on the young players moving forward
 
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briererocks

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
1,051
174
While I feel bad for Ottawa fans, I would try to pry Stone away. I would offer Simmonds, Lindblom, Lacynzski and a 1st. It really does not affect the flyers prospect depth and they would be adding an elite winger (I think right winger which is even better).
 

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