Confirmed with Link: Flyers aquire Justin Bailey from Buffalo in exchange for Taylor Leier (Bailey recalled 2/10)

[baudib1]

I've been pretty dismissive of Wayne Simmonds' impact on the team off the ice, but if there's a guy who could benefit from spending a couple weeks with him, it's probably Bailey. Bailey's never going to be a skill player, but if he learns to position himself in front of the net properly and play hard in the corners, he could be valuable. If Ryan Reaves can turn himself into a useful offensive player at age 32, a guy who's bigger and faster in Bailey can do it, too.

But benching Vorobyev for him makes no sense. Varone probably doesn't even have Bellemare's upside.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

...and now watch Bailey go on and become the second coming of John LeClair.....lol

 

[baudib1]

...and now watch Bailey go on and become the second coming of John LeClair.....lol

Ya we'll take it. I'd settle for him being the second coming of Scottie Upshall.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Ya we'll take it. I'd settle for him being the second coming of Scottie Upshall.

Hell, I'd be happy for the second coming of Darroll Powe...

 

[deadhead]

You just described every deadhead post ever.

Editing is the key to good writing.

 

[mja]

Editing is the key to good writing.

This has to be the least self aware thing you've ever written, and ironically it's the most concise as well.

 

[Curufinwe]

So about Bailey, I enjoyed that he was given #27.

Seemed like a low-key F U to Hextall. Traded one of his guys in Leier

I keep seeing the term "one of Hextall's guys". So who on the roster wasn't one of Hextall's guys? He drafted or signed or traded for all of them except G, Simmonds and MacDonald.

Hextall waived & Leier to the Phantoms at the start of this season and promoted Vorobyev, Goulbourne and NAK ahead of him, so he clearly wasn't in Hextall's NHL plans anymore.

 

[Curufinwe]

Looked like what I expected: big, fast, stone hands, not a great thinker. Kind of just plays hard and skates and doesn’t have much of an impact. A less bad Ghoul, if you would. Surprise me, Bailey, but it’s just a shrug roster move to me. By all means give him a shot, but benching Misha for him is so bleh.

I thought his hands were better than that in his Phantoms stint.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I keep seeing the term "one of Hextall's guys". So who on the roster wasn't one of Hextall's guys? He drafted or signed or traded for all of them except G, Simmonds and MacDonald.

Hextall waived & Leier to the Phantoms at the start of this season and promoted Vorobyev, Goulbourne and NAK ahead of him, so he clearly wasn't in Hextall's NHL plans anymore.

There's no such thing as one of Hextall's guys (other than Hakstol/coaching staff). Hextall would dump anyone at any time.

People really want to be sour at Hexy yet dismiss the fact that he's responsible for the talent in the org right now.

No, there was no "f you" intended with Bailey getting 27 @Ruck Over . There has been a billion players since Hextall to wear it on the Flyers.

It's just a random, popular number.

 

[Ruck Over]

I keep seeing the term "one of Hextall's guys". So who on the roster wasn't one of Hextall's guys? He drafted or signed or traded for all of them except G, Simmonds and MacDonald.

Hextall waived & Leier to the Phantoms at the start of this season and promoted Vorobyev, Goulbourne and NAK ahead of him, so he clearly wasn't in Hextall's NHL plans anymore.

To me, a Hextall guy is a player on the Flyers roster, that reasonable would not be a desired player on another NHL club. Guys that Hextall deemed worthy to play for the Flyers, but were not obvious NHL players. Yes, Hextall resigned Ghost and Couts, but they would not be considered Hextall guys, they were signed to great contracts, but were here before Hextall got here, and wouldn't clear waivers. They are obviously good players any team could find room to play.

Leier passed through waivers, more than once. And no other NHL team wanted his bargain basement contract for free. But Hextall still found merit in keeping him on the roster for the Flyers for parts of two seasons. While he only played in 10 and 39 games respectively the past two years, he was on the roster as a healthy scratch for more than that. Hextall made a conscious decision to keep Leier on the Flyers roster (until sent to the Phantoms) because he either: a) had no other choice; or 2) thought Leier was value added toward a winning club.

To me, that's being a Hextall guy, by definition of no other GM wanted said player for free, when it concerns players that were not FA signings, nor traded for.

To give Hextall credit, Provorov & TK are Hextall guys' too. TK is the more impressive between the two because of the "obvious" associated with selecting Provorov, TK however was passed over by a good number of clubs before being selected in the late first. Patrick is a Hextall guy as well, but suffers from the "obvious" association. Sanheim would count, but I'd be remiss to include Hart and Myers. The latter two because Hextall did sign them both, but never found the need, nor desire, to play them at the NHL level while he was still the GM. Credit for finding them, but no credit given for giving them their NHL opportunities.

While Hextall guy is typically used a pejorative, Neuvirth, it can still be a plus, Lindblom.

 

[deadhead]

Hextall kept a lot of guys to fill out the roster because he wasn't willing to spend real assets (draft picks, cap room) to obtain upgrades. That didn't mean he (or Hakstol) necessarily liked those players, but rather he wasn't willing to spend what it would take to obtain a better player. And Hextall took the view that rushing a prospect to bench a scrub wasn't a good long-term strategy. It was more important to set the prospect up to succeed when he was promoted than placate certain fans.

Hextall did a great job building the roster and a lousy job explaining and selling the rebuild.
If he had been willing (able?) to come out and say that certain players where here because during the rebuild, adding talent to build a championship team was more important than winning now, he'd have had the necessary fan support to ride out the storm.
How much was his fault, and how much his hands were tied by the FO (Holmgren, Scott) we'll probably find out in a couple years.

Now the Flyers have one of the youngest rosters in the NHL, and a good chance that next year they will make the playoffs with the youngest roster (as they add more prospects). That's all due to Hextall.

 

[Curufinwe]

So Hart, who Hextall drafted in the 2nd round to a chorus of "we need another goalie??", is not a Hextall guy because he didn't put him in the NHL in the first two months of his 20 year old season. Got it.

But is Frost a Hextall guy because he traded Schenn to REACH out and grab him at #27, or is he not a Hextall guy because Hextall never found the need or desire to play him as a teenager at the NHL level?

 

[Rebels57]

I don't care who is and who isn't a Hextall guy.

I just know he had to go for the organization to take the next step.

If we win a Cup in the next few years, his contributions won't be forgotten.

 

[Ruck Over]

Hextall made a decision that Neuvy and Elliott were the best goalie options for the Flyers this year. He purposefully didn't trust Hart to perform at an NHL level at this point in time. That has been clearly stated, and proven wrong. Hart is moreso not a Hextall guy, because Hart wasn't shown the trust by Hextall to play. Even though Hart was the best pre-season goalie option we had. When Hextall went out of his way to claim Pickard off waivers, then cycle through Lyon and Stolarz, that made Hart a non-Hextall guy. I know you said you got it, but that seemed facetious. Just trying to better explain.

What about Frost? I dunno, my opinion on Frost isn't fully formed. Hextall definitely gets the credit/blame for drafting him. But seeing as how the guy is still in juniors, Hextall and Frost never had a legitimate chance to establish that kind of relationship. This is all TBD. But not to avoid your question, I'd say no, Frost is not a Hextall guy. Frost is a probable great pick by Hextall, which would align with Hextall being great at the draft, poor on the NHL roster construction.

 

[Ruck Over]

I don't care who is and who isn't a Hextall guy.

I just know he had to go for the organization to take the next step.

If we win a Cup in the next few years, his contributions won't be forgotten.

With a little energon, and a lot of luck; Ron Hextall = Sam Hinkie = Ed Wade.


So, about that Bailey guy! I guess he's a Hextall guy too! Everyone who wears #27 will be a Hextall guy in my eyes! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great TALK!

 

[Curufinwe]

Hextall made a decision that Neuvy and Elliott were the best goalie options for the Flyers this year. He purposefully didn't trust Hart to perform at an NHL level at this point in time. That has been clearly stated, and proven wrong. Hart is moreso not a Hextall guy, because Hart wasn't shown the trust by Hextall to play. Even though Hart was the best pre-season goalie option we had. When Hextall went out of his way to claim Pickard off waivers, then cycle through Lyon and Stolarz, that made Hart a non-Hextall guy. I know you said you got it, but that seemed facetious. Just trying to better explain.

I can see that you are laboring under the misapprehension that Fletcher would have started the season with Hart on the Flyers, and Hart was ready for the NHL in October. Neither is true. Hart's struggles on the Phantoms at the start of the season were obvious to his coach, and the reporters who watched every one of his AHL games. Not having to play behind a dysfunctional head coach and a league worst penalty kill was the best thing that could have happened to Hart.

Lyon was injured when Pickard was claimed. Hextall showed last season he had enough confidence in Lyon to play him in NHL games and he helped the team get to the playoffs, so of course he would get an opportunity to play before a 20 year old.

 

[Rebels57]

How awesome is it that Hakstol was fired on the same day as Harts debut?

What a titanic shift in organizational direction in one day.

 

[Ruck Over]

You're better than that, this has nothing to do with Fletcher. You're creating a straw man argument. The discussion is about Hextall, and Hart. Plus, you have no idea what Fletcher would've done, neither do I. Heck, Fletcher probably doesn't either, seeing as this wasn't an active train of thought for him at the beginning of the year, not being a Flyers employee and all.

The last paragraph- Lyon was injured when the Flyers claimed Pickard. Which means what about Hart, other than he wasn't to be recalled? If Lyon wasn't availabe, then it's next man up, typically. However, Hextall deemed the next man not ready, Hart, and instead went to the waiver wire to get somebody. Whatever dude, you're boring.

 

[Curufinwe]

What's boring is your arbitrary list of assumptions on what constitutes a "Hextall guy".

 

[deadhead]

Hart only came up because of injuries and Pickard being totally useless. A desperation move.
He had just come off his first solid games as a Phantom goaltender, his first 15 starts or so he was dog crap.
Flyers got lucky, Hart could have easily bombed, lost some confidence and been sent back and struggled the rest of the season - that's happened with plenty of young goaltenders.

Lyon was Hextall's insurance policy, when he decided to go with Elliott and Neuvirth, both under contract, instead of adding another scrub veteran, it was with the knowledge that Lyon was one of the hottest young goaltenders out there (.941 in 11 games in the Calder Cup playoffs). Then Lyon gets hurt in August, struggles when he came back too soon and the goaltending went to hell in a basket. Now that Lyon is healthy, he's one of the best goalies in the AHL again.

 

[baudib1]

Hart was the best Flyers goalie in training camp. He's the best Flyers goalie right now. The idea that, somewhere in between that he was really the 3rd- or 4th-best Flyers goalie is very popular among the cognescenti but is probably incorrect.

He didn't have an amazing start to the season, that's true. He probably needed to adjust to the pro game, sure. But obviously he had the ability to make those adjustments, and the best way to adjust to the NHL is by playing NHL games. Hart was ready to succeed in the NHL without any AHL success. Also, presumably the Flyers have better coaching at the NHL level than the AHL, but then again we had Hakstol, so maybe not.

In any event, starting the season in the AHL and getting lit up and starting the season in the NHL and getting lit up doesn't matter one bit in the development of Carter Hart, but if he wins one or two games that Pickard or Neuvirth lost it could have made a difference in the Flyers' season. Ultimately, it was better for the team in the long run (and the short run!) that Hakstol got fired, so struggling out of the gate probably worked out for the best.

 

[Ruck Over]

What's boring is your arbitrary list of assumptions on what constitutes a "Hextall guy".

What did you say? "I can see that you're laboring...". If it's so boring, then why did you ask and continue the conversation? I gave a thoughtful answer of what a Hextall guy was, and you create a different argument about what Fletcher might have done at the beginning of the year. And, I take offense to it, crassly implying what I may think about xyz. I made no presumptive, nor assumptive, statements about what could/should have been done, just what did occur.

What's a Hextall guy to you? I hadn't ask that before, and no one else has offered a description. But at the base of it, this is still a Bailey thread, and Hextall, and his guys were brought up about the trade to acquire Bailey (whom I would solely identify as a Fletcher guy). This talk about Hart is a misnomer of the highest order, and used to pick a scab about defending Hextall's now fallen honor. Get off it, Hextall is gone, he's not coming back.

 

[Curufinwe]

in any event, starting the season in the AHL and getting lit up and starting the season in the NHL and getting lit up doesn't matter one bit in the development of Carter Hart

It does, because if he had a .880 SV% in the NHL after a month or two, he would have been sent down and likely stayed down for the rest of the season.

 

[baudib1]

It does, because if he had a .880 SV% in the NHL after a month or two, he would have been sent down and likely stayed down for the rest of the season.

Over our 4 other injured goalies? Nah.

 

[deadhead]

Hart was always seen as a potential franchise goalie, they didn't want to bring him up, they were forced to bring him up.
Fletcher was no more eager to rush Hart than Hextall.
No one thought he'd play this well this fast, that's "wet dream" thinking.