Confirmed with Link: Flyers acquire Cam Talbot for Anthony Stolarz

[mja]

Stolarz had a chance to show he was a durable and reliable NHL goalie, he continually got hurt and played medicore.

This is such weird reasoning to me. Stolarz had one major season-killing injury. He came back and was thrust into NHL action after only getting a handful of pro games under his belt before doing so. Despite that, he's looked every bit the part of a young NHL goalie with up and down play. Meanwhile, at Stolarz's age, Talbot had yet to play a single NHL game.

Fletcher is not going to gamble like Hextall, he was brought in to fix the goalie carousel.

Talbot is just as much of a gamble as anyone else.

Not sure Talbot would be out there to sign after the season, could end up with a more expensive and less reliable vet than Talbot.

There wasn't going to be a huge bidding war for Talbot. There's going to be a lot of goalie on the market this summer and he's coming off two bad seasons. This trade doesn't accomplish anything but getting him on the team sooner and the value of that is debatable.

 

[DaphneLion]

Can't really argue with this kind of insight

 

[Striiker]

Stolarz > Talbot

That's far from a guarantee.

 

[deadhead]

Can't really argue with this kind of insight

Wouldn't surprise me if one of the requirements for the deal to go down was to allow Fletcher to talk to Talbot about his willingness to back up Hart, including going forward. He was leaving Edmonton in any case, but if he knows he won't land a starting job and starting money, he might be willing to accept this role for a kid he's already mentoring back home.

 

[kostas]

I see people are still being critical of the deal. Has anyone considered that maybe the flyers didn't want to depend on two young goalies? Maybe two young goalies is a recipe for disaster?? Also, another thing to consider is that the flyers wouldn't be able to keep stolarz anyway with the expansion draft coming up for Seattle. I'm sure if Elliot or Neuvirth provided some decent play this year, that one of them could have earned a contract for next season. Instead, I believe the flyers wanted Talbot to be the veteran and form a goalie tandem with Hart. Now Talbot will have a 20 game audition in which he and the flyers can figure out if they want to commit beyond this season.

 

[kostas]

Wouldn't surprise me if one of the requirements for the deal to go down was to allow Fletcher to talk to Talbot about his willingness to back up Hart, including going forward. He was leaving Edmonton in any case, but if he knows he won't land a starting job and starting money, he might be willing to accept this role for a kid he's already mentoring back home.

I do wonder what things happen behind the scenes in making a trade. You mentioned talking to Talbot about his potential role before the trade could happen. Recently, flyers said the weise trade took 3 weeks to complete. It makes me wonder how these things play out

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

I would have liked to see Stolarz play more but I guess it wasn't meant to be. There's certainly a chance he becomes a capable goalie but it's not a guarantee he amounts to much.

Talbot? Ehhh, whatever. Hope he can become a dependable backup. It would be nice to get solid goaltending on Hart's nights off.

I'm not really upset or excited. I'm reserving my piss and vinegar for the Simmer trade and anything involving Ghost.

 

[The Madrigal]

Can't really argue with this kind of insight

Can't be @baudib1 told me it was ridiculous and laughable that Boucher needed Beezer to mentor him in his second season. @Rebels57 also said it's a joke that Hart would need a veteran goalie to hold his hand. I will definitely take their word over Brian Boucher himself though, what the hell does he know.

 

[baudib1]

Carey Price had Jaroslav Halak (22 games) back him up in his second season, and he turned out ok.

 

[DecadesofFutility]

This is such weird reasoning to me. Stolarz had one major season-killing injury. He came back and was thrust into NHL action after only getting a handful of pro games under his belt before doing so. Despite that, he's looked every bit the part of a young NHL goalie with up and down play. Meanwhile, at Stolarz's age, Talbot had yet to play a single NHL game.



Talbot is just as much of a gamble as anyone else.



There wasn't going to be a huge bidding war for Talbot. There's going to be a lot of goalie on the market this summer and he's coming off two bad seasons. This trade doesn't accomplish anything but getting him on the team sooner and the value of that is debatable.

Stolarz could not beat out Neuvirth who gets constantly injured to be Elliot's backup.
How can the Flyers depend on him (Stolarz) as a long term backup at this point?

Talbot has played poorly. For the Oilers, the worst defensive team in the league.
He has been a good NHL goalie in previous years and is durable, a must for a backup.

In FA, you will pay more for a backup goalie instead of trying to fill that position now
and you will be making it harder for the team to finish strong this year.

 

[BritainStix]

Lets all be honest. If the trade included a third round draft pick we would have all been happy.

 

[mja]

Stolarz could not beat out Neuvirth who gets constantly injured to be Elliot's backup.
How can the Flyers depend on him (Stolarz) as a long term backup at this point?

What revisionist poppycock.

Stolarz was never in competition for the back-up spot to Neuvirth. Neuvirth was re-signed over Mason and handed a 1B role with the all-important FA vet in Brian Elliott after a season in which he was injured regularly. Meanwhile, as an injury call-up, Stolarz posted easily the best numbers of all three tenders in limited time, but then had a major injury at the end of the season that not only robbed him of all but 4 games the following season, but also of any kind of a chance to compete for a spot on the big club. Enter this season coming off of a year with 4 games played, 3 of them in the ECHL. Stolarz could have come in and not let up a single goal in pre-season and he still wasn't going to get the nod over Neuvirth. If anything, Stolarz was just in the middle of winning his spot in the NHL right before the trade.

We still don't know who Stolarz is as a tender in this league, aside from the fact that he's still raw but has rare physical gifts, doesn't look out of place, and is capable of stealing a game. He just turned 25. That's really not that old for a goalie prospect, especially one who lost an entire year of development to injury. I mean, Cam freaking Talbot didn't play in his first NHL game until he was 27!

This is the kind of stuff people said when Bob was traded (btw, I hated that trade, too) and look how that turned out. Stolarz may well end up out of the league in short order, but I've seen enough that I would have liked to give him more of a chance.

Talbot has played poorly. For the Oilers, the worst defensive team in the league.
He has been a good NHL goalie in previous years and is durable, a must for a backup.

In FA, you will pay more for a backup goalie instead of trying to fill that position now
and you will be making it harder for the team to finish strong this year.

There was not going to be a ton of competition for Talbot's services, if you really wanted to go in that direction. The cost won't be any different. It definitely won't be any cheaper.

As for finishing strong, they've just gone 12-2-1 in their last 14 games with Hart & Stolarz, including a game that Stolarz put the entire team on his back and outright stole the W.

Lets all be honest. If the trade included a third round draft pick we would have all been happy.

It's more about direction for me. I wanted to go younger and cheaper with upside. I remain intrigued with Stolarz's potential.

 

[flyersfan187]

Lets all be honest. If the trade included a third round draft pick we would have all been happy.

I would have been happy with a 4th or 5th.

 

[Prongo]

The mentoring gets blown out of proportion like the “C” on the sweater. It is not a bad idea to have a veteran there who has been through the good and the bad to help when a young player struggles. Some insight and direction never hurts but ultimately it’s the player who will figure it out. Again, I have nothing against bringing Talbot in. I think Stolarz would have made it to UFA and walked honestly.

Talbot is a guy that has shown he can handle a large workload too. If Hart gets hurt you have a veteran who can step in a play for long stretches of time if need be. You really couldn’t rely on Stolarz for that either.

 

[deadhead]

Talbot certain sounds like he's open to being Hart's backup:

"I waived my no-trade to come here because I saw an opportunity for not only this year, but for the future. If something comes up and both sides can come to an agreement, I'd be more than happy to sign before July 1 and forgo free agency."

Obviously, Talbot knows that signing with the Flyers means being the #2, he certainly knows how well Hart is playing and that he's the future of the franchise.

 

[Striiker]

What revisionist poppycock.

Stolarz was never in competition for the back-up spot to Neuvirth. Neuvirth was re-signed over Mason and handed a 1B role with the all-important FA vet in Brian Elliott after a season in which he was injured regularly. Meanwhile, as an injury call-up, Stolarz posted easily the best numbers of all three tenders in limited time, but then had a major injury at the end of the season that not only robbed him of all but 4 games the following season, but also of any kind of a chance to compete for a spot on the big club. Enter this season coming off of a year with 4 games played, 3 of them in the ECHL. Stolarz could have come in and not let up a single goal in pre-season and he still wasn't going to get the nod over Neuvirth. If anything, Stolarz was just in the middle of winning his spot in the NHL right before the trade.

We still don't know who Stolarz is as a tender in this league, aside from the fact that he's still raw but has rare physical gifts, doesn't look out of place, and is capable of stealing a game. He just turned 25. That's really not that old for a goalie prospect, especially one who lost an entire year of development to injury. I mean, Cam freaking Talbot didn't play in his first NHL game until he was 27!

This is the kind of stuff people said when Bob was traded (btw, I hated that trade, too) and look how that turned out. Stolarz may well end up out of the league in short order, but I've seen enough that I would have liked to give him more of a chance.



There was not going to be a ton of competition for Talbot's services, if you really wanted to go in that direction. The cost won't be any different. It definitely won't be any cheaper.

As for finishing strong, they've just gone 12-2-1 in their last 14 games with Hart & Stolarz, including a game that Stolarz put the entire team on his back and outright stole the W.



It's more about direction for me. I wanted to go younger and cheaper with upside. I remain intrigued with Stolarz's potential.

You would’ve been happy to go into next year with those two super inexperienced guys as our goalie duo?

 

[Curufinwe]

Talbot played 21 NHL games as a 26 year old.

Cam Talbot Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[mja]

You would’ve been happy to go into next year with those two super inexperienced guys as our goalie duo?

Yes. The Flyers goaltending clusterf*** of the last several decades is littered with the corpses of mediocre vets. The last time we replaced a young guy with projectable starter upside for a vet with a recent top 5 Vezina finish, the young guy went on to win 2 Vezinas while the vet flamed out spectacularly. The only difference this time is that the vet is going to be the back-up or 1B, and thank god for that, but that also means that the on-ice difference between the mediocre vet and young guy with upside is likely limited, and why not go for the young guy in that scenario?

In short, having an experienced vet is overrated.

 

[mja]

Talbot played 21 NHL games as a 26 year old.

Cam Talbot Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Obviously I can't count, but my point remains. Some are killing Stolarz for not outright securing an NHL job at 25, despite losing a full season to injury, but are more than happy to trade him for a guy who didn't even break into the league until was more than a full year older than Stolarz is now.

 

[Rebels57]

Obviously I can't count, but my point remains. Some are killing Stolarz for not outright securing an NHL job at 25, despite losing a full season to injury, but are more than happy to trade him for a guy who didn't even break into the league until was more than a full year older than Stolarz is now.

Stolarz' career trajectory could end up being very similar to another big goalie and late bloomer, Ben Bishop. Didn't nail down a #1 job until after being traded at 25 years old. Went on to post a .921 save percentage over 4 plus years as Tampa Bays starter and although he's battling injuries in Dallas, he's been very good there too when healthy.

Ben Bishop Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Appleyard]

Stolarz' career trajectory could end up being very similar to another big goalie and late bloomer, Ben Bishop. Didn't nail down a #1 job until after being traded at 25 years old. Went on to post a .921 save percentage over 4 plus years as Tampa Bays starter and although he's battling injuries in Dallas, he's been very good there too when healthy.

Ben Bishop Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Tbf though Bishop was more talented I think... when you evaluate objectively who had the better seasons at same age:

Draft+1: Bishop
Draft+2: Bishop
Draft+3: Could go either way
Draft+4: Stolarz
Draft+5: Stolarz
Draft+6: Bishop
Draft+7: Bishop

Ofc anything could happen... but before Stolarz was moved I think even people who liked him would have been happy had he turned into a solid back-up.

 

[Striiker]

Yes. The Flyers goaltending cluster**** of the last several decades is littered with the corpses of mediocre vets. The last time we replaced a young guy with projectable starter upside for a vet with a recent top 5 Vezina finish, the young guy went on to win 2 Vezinas while the vet flamed out spectacularly. The only difference this time is that the vet is going to be the back-up or 1B, and thank god for that, but that also means that the on-ice difference between the mediocre vet and young guy with upside is likely limited, and why not go for the young guy in that scenario?

In short, having an experienced vet is overrated.

Well in this situation Hart is our Bobrovski and Stolarz is more like our Leighton, I think. As long as Hart isn't blocked by anyone, we're fine.

Personally, I wouldn't have been happy with the two of them next year because I simply don't trust Stolarz. He had a small handful of really good games but even more really bad games. Like I've posted a few times in here, before his two good games, his numbers were horrendous and I don't think that was a fluke. Whether you think he's a good goalie or not, whether you believe in his potential to be a starter one day or not, at the very least he's proven he's extremely inconsistent and I think that would've been a problem when our other goalie would only 21.

I already said, I'd bet on Talbot bouncing back to his previous form over Stolarz suddenly becoming reliable and reaching his potential. I don't see this as a downgrade in ability in exchange for veteran intangibles at all, I see this as a better bet for a strong goalie tandem next year.

Just my opinion.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Every time I read "he wanted to add a vet" my eye twitches.

Probably because this logic is most routinely used to justify a bad move.

 

[mja]

Well in this situation Hart is our Bobrovski and Stolarz is more like our Leighton, I think. As long as Hart isn't blocked by anyone, we're fine.

Personally, I wouldn't have been happy with the two of them next year because I simply don't trust Stolarz. He had a small handful of really good games but even more really bad games. Like I've posted a few times in here, before his two good games, his numbers were horrendous and I don't think that was a fluke. Whether you think he's a good goalie or not, whether you believe in his potential to be a starter one day or not, at the very least he's proven he's extremely inconsistent and I think that would've been a problem when our other goalie would only 21.

I already said, I'd bet on Talbot bouncing back to his previous form over Stolarz suddenly becoming reliable and reaching his potential. I don't see this as a downgrade in ability in exchange for veteran intangibles at all, I see this as a better bet for a strong goalie tandem next year.

Just my opinion.

I get where you're coming from (and why Fletcher made the trade), I just disagree with it. If Stolarz puts it together in Edmonton and becomes a true blue NHL starter while Talbot gives us mediocre play, I'm going to be one extremely grumpy Flyers fan.

 

[Striiker]

I get where you're coming from (and why Fletcher made the trade), I just disagree with it. If Stolarz puts it together in Edmonton and becomes a true blue NHL starter while Talbot gives us mediocre play, I'm going to be one extremely grumpy Flyers fan.

Sure, that's definitely a risk.

But I don't think Stolarz was ever going to get that chance here, now that Hart is up. He really needed to cement his spot in these previous two years, but injury prevented him from even getting a shot. If he had stayed and ended up as a UFA after this year, he might not have even signed here.