Post-Game Talk: Flyers 5, Penguins 2 - Because No ColePens Analysis Is Necessary

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Pens x

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Oct 8, 2016
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The sky isn't falling for the Pens. I don't think they are a serious contender this year but they should still make the playoffs. Carter Hart really played well in the second period last night that helped the Flyers weather the storm. Sometimes a goalie can steal a game.
The problem is that Sully and the Pens allow too many goalies to “steal” games. At least Hart is a good player; they usually make mediocre goalies look elite.
 

Jacob

as seen on TV
Feb 27, 2002
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Gallant would seem like a good coach for this team and its makeup/issues in particular. Vegas managed to both play an aggressive style but also rarely gave up odd man rushes somehow, the former being what we’re built for and the latter being a 3 year long bugaboo.

Not sure how he managed that in Vegas and why this team can’t figure it out under Sullivan.
 

Beauner

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Jun 14, 2011
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Outsider here who has watched the Last two games, so my observations are probably a bit naive.

- Malkin and Zucker appear to have no chemistry. Malkin is a WAY better player, but Zucker is pretty easy to play with if you have vision and can pass, AND draw a lot of attention to yourself. Malkin has all three of those attributes. Maybe it's just a matter of time?

- with the talent your team can put out there, how the hell can you have such a bad PP? Truly mind boggling.

- will a lot of problems go away once Kapanen comes back?

- Bruce Boudreau is a good coach, and knows how to handle star players. Just saying.

- Erod...why?
The Malkin/Zucker thing I'll attribute to Malkin starting VERY slowly. With no preseason it's taking him a while to get up to speed. As I recall they both actually looked pretty damn good together against Montreal.

I'm hoping Kapanen coming back will address some of the issues on the PK and help with forechecking. Should also greatly help Sid's line at even strength since, you know... Erod....
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

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May 31, 2004
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The Malkin/Zucker thing I'll attribute to Malkin starting VERY slowly. With no preseason it's taking him a while to get up to speed. As I recall they both actually looked pretty damn good together against Montreal.

They've scored one goal in 6 games as a line. Malkin has zero total points on that line.

They are the kind of line that even when they are "on" will zoom around looking real impressive but somehow end up pointless every single game. Malkin needs a proven shooter on that line and he doesn't have one. I think the plan was for it to be Rust but I mean... that wasn't a good plan.
 

LOGiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Malkin has been totally invisible unless he makes a stupid decision to retaliate for a stupid decision that gets him into trouble...

Guy should have been gone years ago and I'm tired of saying it...
 

ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
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The problem is that Sully and the Pens allow too many goalies to “steal” games. At least Hart is a good player; they usually make mediocre goalies look elite.

If I were to write a top 5 problem list w/ the Pens... this isn't even on my rough draft as I narrow it down. :laugh:
 

Jacob

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Feb 27, 2002
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Also, especially with a goalie that can handle the puck pretty well, shouldn’t we be trapping it up a little more? Not all the time just like, when the other team is running a controlled breakout. Just sit back and force a dump in. Maybe once or twice a night we can turn that into a quick strike the other way.

If they’re scrambling and stuff we can still send a bunch of forecheckers in.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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May 31, 2004
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Also, especially with a goalie that can handle the puck pretty well, shouldn’t we be trapping it up a little more? Not all the time just like, when the other team is running a controlled breakout. Just sit back and force a dump in. Maybe once or twice a night we can turn that into a quick strike the other way.

If they’re scrambling and stuff we can still send a bunch of forecheckers in.

Yeah I really, really don't understand why they won't at least experiment with the trap. It's to the point where I think other teams know they won't even look at it and are even kinda counting on it as part of their gameplan against the Penguins.
 
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LOGiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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yeah what a bum. Lol

Pretty much.

What else do you expect when your highest paid player is the most .... invisible?
Well, he's not invisible... he made plenty of forced and unforced errors that resulted in either pinned in their own end or plays going the other way.
 

chethejet

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Feb 4, 2012
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Pens just are not responsible enough on defense. Team has to tighten up and play better position. hopefully they get going at home vs the Caps but as it looks right now, to many lapses and guys behind the play. Jake is bad right now and lacks any semblance of conditioning.
 

The Old Master

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Sep 27, 2004
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Gallant would seem like a good coach for this team and its makeup/issues in particular. Vegas managed to both play an aggressive style but also rarely gave up odd man rushes somehow, the former being what we’re built for and the latter being a 3 year long bugaboo.

Not sure how he managed that in Vegas and why this team can’t figure it out under Sullivan.
he had players that were willing to buy in. not sure we have that here.
 
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The Old Master

come and take it.
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The Malkin/Zucker thing I'll attribute to Malkin starting VERY slowly. With no preseason it's taking him a while to get up to speed. As I recall they both actually looked pretty damn good together against Montreal..
from what I hear.... it seems like they are leaving it all in practices.....could be they are just trying too hard. :dunno:
 
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larueskee

Player/Member USA Hockey or affilates 1972-2006
Mar 15, 2017
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I saw this coming after the signings of Maata, Dumolin, and Schultz. Generally speaking I think management as made some roster mistake and over paid some people while making those mistake. Jack Johnson 16.25 million for 5 years? Wow just wow.
 

LOGiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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from what I hear.... it seems like they are leaving it all in practices.....could be they are just trying too hard. :dunno:

Could be it... at least in part.

The go go go go go constant attack doesnt do them any favors.... teams just wait for the inevitable screw up, which doesnt take long. Penguins havent played a good tight 60 minute game since I can even remember.

The pens also do not have the talent to make anything happen out of all the pressure. They just force a pass that goes the other way...

I hate this friggin style / system...
 
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OnMyOwn

Worlds Apart
Sep 7, 2005
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Kap in and ERod out will be 100% better for the top 6 and sid especially. I only like ERod as a complimentary 4th liner. He’s just in over his head right now.

jarry needs to get his act together and G needs to show up. Well be ok, probably could have won last night. It’s just shitty to start 0-2.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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I hate how fans think firing a coach is just a magic bullet solution to all of this team's problems. This isn't even defending Sullivan because he's been making some extremely questionable decisions since like 2018, but this team is playing horribly flawed hockey and it starts with the big guns. Firing the coach won't do anything if the guys you're paying big bucks for are MIA.

That can be extended to criticisms with JR, too. Both Sullivan and JR deserve a lot of criticism for bad decisions they've made in the last few years, but the start of this season is mostly due to the horrid performance of their big guns (Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Dumoulin, Guentzel and Rust) and Jarry. This team isn't struggling because JR added guys like Matheson, Sceviour and ERod, it's struggling because the guys being paid a lot aren't playing well.
 
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SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
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True, also, maybe i dunno lottery protect first round pick trades from your downward trending underperforming team?

That ISN'T hindsight

Minny did the trade under the premise that we got to choose 2020 or 2021 if 2020 was a lottery pick...so yes, they did exactly what you wanted. It IS hindsight. It's also foolish hindsight because we have yet to see Kapanen play a game and it's 2 games into the season.

When the decision is made, pretty easy to get the thinking. We picked 15OV in 2020. For 2021, would they be in the top half or bottom half of the league? JR bet we would be in the top half. Especially if he uses it on a win-now player. Pretty easy. Two losses, I doubt changes the opinion on that front. Relax.

No puck luck and facing a hot goalie, the Pens excuses for years.

A few burst of 2 or 3 goals? Guy, the Flyers scored 11 ******* goals in two ******* games. That isn’t a burst, that’s a massacre. We have a -6 goal differential and have given up the most goals in the league.

Stop with the excuses:

-we played well for a period!
-Philly didn’t play well either!
-We faced a hot goalie!
-No puck luck, we didn’t get the bounces!
-The pre-season was so short, we will be fine

A new coach fixes these excuses.

I'm so friggin glad you're not my stock broker/trader. What's more disturbing is that each one of those "excuses" you point out have legitimacy. So you know know the different factors that are going into the poor start but you're trying to brand them as excuses because you have an agenda...you don't like Sully, you don't like JR, you don't like ERod, Jank, Ceci, or Matheson...anything you can do to pigeonhole the direction of your conversation to those points, you do. It's painfully obvious and again, I call on the mods to do some actual modding around here concerning you because you're nothing but spam at this point.

Outsider here who has watched the Last two games, so my observations are probably a bit naive.

- Malkin and Zucker appear to have no chemistry. Malkin is a WAY better player, but Zucker is pretty easy to play with if you have vision and can pass, AND draw a lot of attention to yourself. Malkin has all three of those attributes. Maybe it's just a matter of time?

- with the talent your team can put out there, how the hell can you have such a bad PP? Truly mind boggling.

- will a lot of problems go away once Kapanen comes back?

- Bruce Boudreau is a good coach, and knows how to handle star players. Just saying.

- Erod...why?

Decent questions and comments. I am baffled a little bit by the lack of chemistry with Zucker-Geno-Rust. That line was killing last year and in camp this year. They were a reason I wasn't freaking out about Kappy not being here yet. They get to the game...duds. Malkin hasn't looked great in whole either though. He's clearly lost a step, some drive, some jump...something. One or all. He looks disinterested and slow out there. I think he still thinks the game the way he did when he was 24, not 34. At 24, speed was effortless and everything was easier. It doesn't look like his approach to the game is translating well to older age and it doesn't look like he's making the adjustments needed to keep up. It's concerning but...again, 2 games.

I think Kapanen will solve some issues with Sid's like. ERod is not a 1RW but...we all know what that is, him being there. Once Kapanen is in, I think then you can start to shift things around if it still doesn't work. They already made changes to the defense which were good. I'm interested to see how the forwards shake out. Likely won't see anything until after the next game but I expect major changes if they blow it again.

BB would be interesting here but his playoff failures can't go unnoticed. That makes me extremely nervous. I think Vellucci will take over with Reirden as the AC when (notice I say when, not if) Sullivan is let go. I think this also has to do with money and contracts as Sullivan recently signed an extension and I doubt they are looking to shell out more money while so much sits idle.

The problem is that Sully and the Pens allow too many goalies to “steal” games. At least Hart is a good player; they usually make mediocre goalies look elite.

And we've made elite goalies look pedestrian for as many times we've made a pedestrian goalie look elite. That's not on Sullivan, that's on the players on the ice.
 

Darren McCord

Registered User
Dec 15, 2015
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Kap in and ERod out will be 100% better for the top 6 and sid especially. I only like ERod as a complimentary 4th liner. He’s just in over his head right now.

jarry needs to get his act together and G needs to show up. Well be ok, probably could have won last night. It’s just shitty to start 0-2.

jokes on you.

“We don’t want to rush him in. So we will start him in the forth line. We think Erod has been doing a great job on the first line. He also gives us versatility to play on pk and pp. “

- mike Sullivan
 

vikingGoalie

Registered User
Oct 31, 2010
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It's obvious that Guentzel is not shooting like he did pre shoulder injury. That kinda of injury/surgery takes a good solid year to come back from so i'm hoping this isn't the new normal.

That said, can we please put zucker with crosby, guentz down with malkin they had lights out chemistry last year and maybe that will spark both of them to get it going.
Jarry needs to get it going, DeSmith is capable of taking the reigns for a stint while Jarry gets his head straight.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,091
27,915
I hate how fans think firing a coach is just a magic bullet solution to all of this team's problems. This isn't even defending Sullivan because he's been making some extremely questionable decisions since like 2018, but this team is playing horribly flawed hockey and it starts with the big guns. Firing the coach won't do anything if the guys you're paying big bucks for are MIA.

This is true. And at this point in their careers my next point is probably not a salient one but it's worth noting that people were ripping the shit out of both (Crosby in particular if memory serves) under their prior coaches near the end of their tenure due to their poor play. When the new coach came on board that changed quickly. Er, well... except in MJ's case, of course.

I'm not saying it's a magic bullet. But I'm saying that kind of shakeup and new voice and ideas in the room seems to have benefitted this team historically.
 
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