The Athletic - Boston FLUTO: ‘What is the purpose of this rule?’: Bruce Cassidy laments a game-changing offside challenge

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
Sponsor
Sep 26, 2007
68,585
98,266
Cambridge, MA
MONTREAL — As linesmen Kyle Flemington and Trent Knorr continued to squint at the tablet being held up to their faces, Bruins coach Bruce Cassidy knew the call was not going his way.

“They’re over there for three minutes,” Cassidy said of the linesmen’s extended peek at whether Charlie Coyle was offside prior to his would-be go-ahead goal. “What is the purpose of this rule? Either you find something you don’t. Three minutes. Now you’re looking for something, for it to be offside. You know it’s going to go the other way, and it did.”

The reason Flemington and Knorr burned through so much screen time is that they were searching for a needle in a haystack. In that instance, Coyle might have crossed the offensive blue line before the puck. But if he did, it was by a fingernail’s width.

And that is Cassidy’s problem with the rule.

“There was a change this summer, punishing the coaches if they got it wrong for this reason: They didn’t want three-minute reviews,” Cassidy said after the Bruins’ 5-4 loss to Montreal. “Anyway, it was a big part of the game. Didn’t go our way.”

The offside challenge was originally an answer to Matt Duchene, when he was with Colorado, being in another ZIP code from that of the puck prior to a goal against Nashville. It was the definition of a blown call.

It was not meant to address plays like Coyle’s, where even replay cannot conclusively determine whether the player is offside. It is a pity, even, that professionals like Flemington and Knorr are being asked to determine something in real time that cameras cannot.

But after an extended study, the linesmen judged Coyle to be offside, which wiped out the goal the No. 3 center scored at 5:23 of the third, one that seemingly gave the Bruins a 5-4 lead. Less than four minutes later, Ben Chiarot snapped a puck off Tuukka Rask’s glove and into the net to turn the result the Canadiens’ way.

“It’s so hard to tell,” Coyle said. “That’s what they called. We didn’t lose or die by that call. Still got to earn a play and win the game. We didn’t.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: PatriceBergeronFan

smithformeragent

Moderator
Sep 22, 2005
32,594
24,586
Milford, NH
Meh.

Comes off sounding like sour grapes. I’d have rather gotten the “It is what it is. The rules are the rules.” canned Bill Belichick like answer.

Having said that, the implementation of the off sides challenge is brutal. I don’t know how you put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point, though. While it kills the momentum of the game, it’s hard to argue against getting the call right.

I think back to the playoff series against the Canadiens (2008?) where Kessel was clearly offsides. If I’m a player, coach, or fan on the other side and there’s a way to get the call right, I want it utilized.
 

bbfan419

Registered User
Jul 3, 2006
8,860
9,253
Moncton NB
Meh.

Comes off sounding like sour grapes. I’d have rather gotten the “It is what it is. The rules are the rules.” canned Bill Belichick like answer.

Having said that, the implementation of the off sides challenge is brutal. I don’t know how you put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point, though. While it kills the momentum of the game, it’s hard to argue against getting the call right.

I think back to the playoff series against the Canadiens (2008?) where Kessel was clearly offsides. If I’m a player, coach, or fan on the other side and there’s a way to get the call right, I want it utilized.
That is what this rule was meant for goals that were clearly offside like the Duchene goal with the Avs, Kessel with the Bruins, but not these goals where it is really hard to tell whether it was offside or not and may be by fraction of a millimeter. It is ruining the game and going against what the NHL wants to promote, because it takes goals away and slows the game to a crawl.
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
14,331
3,941
Edmonton Canada
Got to be honest

Even when offside involves other teams... even when it goes in your own favor...

It needs to be called out as the crappiest rule in sports

IF YOU CANT DETERMIN ITS OFFSIDE WITH A SINGLE REVIEW AT REAL LIFE SPEED... THEN IT DIDNT MATTER!!!

stop destroying the excitement of this sport over something none of us would ever complain about.

I guess there was ONE example of a matt duchesne style offside in my entire 45 year history as a fan. Every single viewer except the officials saw it. A single regular speed review would have seen it

EVERY SINGLE GOAL IN NHL SHOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY REVIEWED AT REGULAR SPEED FOR OFFSIDE/HIGH STICK/NET OFF/PUCK COVERED UP BY GOALIE/AND DANGEROUS GOALTENDER INTERFERENCE

No need for any coaches challange.

One view by the refs in real time
One view by the special judges in real time

If the goal passes both... then it was obviously close enough we want it to count!!!

Offense sells the game! We want goals to count!

But... start protecting goalies better... warn players that the tie goes to the runner in baseball. Contact with goalies will be called strict.

No dman is intentionally going to knock highspeed opponents into his own goalie. So collisions are THE FAULT of the attacking player

This is a safety issue for the goalie. Plays where a forward might brush against a goalie while fighting for position outside the paint dont matter. Screens are allowed. Its part of the game that doesnt endanger the goalie

Honestly, its always bothered me more when a penalty should be called but isnt resulting in a goal. That's INTENTIONAL cheating!

If we have to accept intentional cheating blown ref calls, we can sure as hell live with accidental normal plays that might technically break a rule, but so minorly no one would ever notice without superslowmo
 

BRUINS since 1995

Registered User
May 10, 2010
4,650
1,966
Au pays de la neige
Meh.

Comes off sounding like sour grapes. I’d have rather gotten the “It is what it is. The rules are the rules.” canned Bill Belichick like answer.

Having said that, the implementation of the off sides challenge is brutal. I don’t know how you put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point, though. While it kills the momentum of the game, it’s hard to argue against getting the call right.

I think back to the playoff series against the Canadiens (2008?) where Kessel was clearly offsides. If I’m a player, coach, or fan on the other side and there’s a way to get the call right, I want it utilized.
Right. The rules are the rules. But i agree with Cassidy on this one. When you need that much time, it means it is not as conclusive as it was meant by this rule. Linesmen probably did search a way to call it offside..... not that the image, angles were that conclusive to determine their position. I think that rule was meant to reverse a bad linesmen call, which was not the case yesterday,
 

BruinsFanSince94

The Perfect Fan ™
Sep 28, 2017
32,709
43,379
New England
Meh.

Comes off sounding like sour grapes. I’d have rather gotten the “It is what it is. The rules are the rules.” canned Bill Belichick like answer.

Having said that, the implementation of the off sides challenge is brutal. I don’t know how you put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point, though. While it kills the momentum of the game, it’s hard to argue against getting the call right.

I think back to the playoff series against the Canadiens (2008?) where Kessel was clearly offsides. If I’m a player, coach, or fan on the other side and there’s a way to get the call right, I want it utilized.

That's fine but when you have to slow it down to freeze frames and still can't tell whether it's on/offside then you shouldn't be overturning the call on the ice. There's a difference between blatant offsides and this shit.
 

PatriceBergeronFan

Registered User
Jul 15, 2011
59,138
36,521
USA
Meh.

Comes off sounding like sour grapes. I’d have rather gotten the “It is what it is. The rules are the rules.” canned Bill Belichick like answer.

Having said that, the implementation of the off sides challenge is brutal. I don’t know how you put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point, though. While it kills the momentum of the game, it’s hard to argue against getting the call right.

I think back to the playoff series against the Canadiens (2008?) where Kessel was clearly offsides. If I’m a player, coach, or fan on the other side and there’s a way to get the call right, I want it utilized.

Heck no. If we want any chance at all of this garbage going away it needs to be publicized.

Teams accepting it last year is why the NHL left it in place this season.

Based on the length of time put into the review it is CLEAR they were looking to find it offside. That is not at all how this should work. Officials should not be attempting to reinforce an unconscious expectation.
 

smithformeragent

Moderator
Sep 22, 2005
32,594
24,586
Milford, NH
It’s like the puck being shot into the crowd.

Once you have a rule in place, it’s hard to allow officials’ discretion into the equation.

Who is to say what’s obvious and what’s not?
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
14,331
3,941
Edmonton Canada
It’s like the puck being shot into the crowd.

Once you have a rule in place, it’s hard to allow officials’ discretion into the equation.

Who is to say what’s obvious and what’s not?

Absolutely dont need reviews for pucks shot into the crowd... i guess in past 45 years that happened once? Maybe twice but forgot about other time because it simply doesnt matter

Its like pucks that rebound weird from the boards... or bounce off debries on the ice

Its weird and we dont like it if it goes against us, but the likilhood of it affecting a game is less tyan 1 a year

Put in reviews for blatant trips or highsticks or slashes... those things effect your team every 5-6 games

Or dont... live with the human element... one review at regular speed and if the offense isnt so obvious that it MUST BE CALLED, then let the call on the ice stand

After all when linesmen call down a play for a false offside or a screwed up high stick... or a loose puck is blown down incorrectly... they NEVER start the play backup

Scoring opportunities are blown down incorrectly all the time

Its ok if the odd goal goes in that was a couple inches offside
 

YouTakeTheVan

Registered User
Feb 6, 2017
321
312
Who is to say what’s obvious and what’s not?
It's very possible to tilt against challenges by insisting on clear & irrefutable evidence to overturn, e.g. full skate blade over the line, by putting a time limit (infraction must have occurred within 20 seconds of the goal), etc. Cuts the number of challenges way down too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Strafer

BruinDust

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
24,281
21,610
NHL hockey is suppose to be entertainment. Fan don't want this. Maybe they should start reviewing ball and strike calls in baseball. I'm sure MLB fans would lose their minds if they went down that path with video review.

I turned the game off after the no-goal call last night. Not because it went against the Bruins, or that I thought it was the wrong call (it was IMO, he clearly had control of the puck as you can see he's intentionally looking down at his feet as he's kicking the puck to his stick, that's control IMO), but because no fan wants this crap in their game. The whole "we gotta get the call right" has been taken way to far and it's hurting the product and they will lose customers because of it.
 

TwineTickler

TheUltimateBruin
May 13, 2006
30,281
8,626
Fairfield County, CT
Did he answer why he didn't challenge the tying goal where Nate Thompson dove fully into Tuukka after light contact from Zdeno?

He did actually. The ref came right over to him and said "Zdeno pushed him in, but you can challenge if you want"... and Bruce said basically the guy was saying "if you're dumb go ahead and challenge".

That was way more deserving of a goal called back then they Coyle goal. They really need to fix how it's done. Give them 30 seconds to determine if it's offsides or not... if you can't 100% tell in that amount of time, it's not egregious and should be a goal. Being over there for 3 minutes was a joke.
 

Donnie Shulzhoffer

Rocket Surgery
Sep 9, 2008
15,596
11,003
Foxboro, MA
He did actually. The ref came right over to him and said "Zdeno pushed him in, but you can challenge if you want"... and Bruce said basically the guy was saying "if you're dumb go ahead and challenge".

That was way more deserving of a goal called back then they Coyle goal. They really need to fix how it's done. Give them 30 seconds to determine if it's offsides or not... if you can't 100% tell in that amount of time, it's not egregious and should be a goal. Being over there for 3 minutes was a joke.
Bruce stated it perfectly. If you are taking 3 minutes to review offsides then you are trying to look for something.
 

KnightofBoston

Registered User
Mar 22, 2010
19,777
6,018
The Valley of Pioneers
ALL they need to do to fix this problem is make the blue line thinner. As thin as the goal line perhaps.


Rule doesn’t need changing, onus doesn’t need to be more or less on refs, it’s just a hell of a lot easier for the puck to physically cross the line and a lot easier to tell if it has.

If that doesn’t work I like a rule amendment that says if opposing team touches the puck a review is negated, if the coach can’t decide within a minute to challenge then he can’t
 

FluffyMcAvoy

Registered User
Oct 11, 2017
135
88
Boston, MA
I don't mind losing. Well I do, but it's part of the sport and part of the excitement. But these overturned goals because of a hairline distance 30 seconds prior that has to be reviewed frame by frame for 3-4 minutes is absolutely ridiculous.

After the goal reversal, I did something that I haven't done in many years. I turned the game off. It was Bruins VS Canadiens, the greatest rivalry in hockey history, tied in the 3rd period in a very high scoring game... And I had no interest in finishing the game. I hate that I felt this way, but I did. The excitement of the game was knocked out of me just like that.
 

CharasLazyWrister

Registered User
Sep 8, 2008
24,356
21,005
Northborough, MA
Got to be honest

Even when offside involves other teams... even when it goes in your own favor...

It needs to be called out as the crappiest rule in sports

IF YOU CANT DETERMIN ITS OFFSIDE WITH A SINGLE REVIEW AT REAL LIFE SPEED... THEN IT DIDNT MATTER!!!

stop destroying the excitement of this sport over something none of us would ever complain about.

I guess there was ONE example of a matt duchesne style offside in my entire 45 year history as a fan. Every single viewer except the officials saw it. A single regular speed review would have seen it

EVERY SINGLE GOAL IN NHL SHOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY REVIEWED AT REGULAR SPEED FOR OFFSIDE/HIGH STICK/NET OFF/PUCK COVERED UP BY GOALIE/AND DANGEROUS GOALTENDER INTERFERENCE

No need for any coaches challange.

One view by the refs in real time
One view by the special judges in real time

If the goal passes both... then it was obviously close enough we want it to count!!!

Offense sells the game! We want goals to count!

But... start protecting goalies better... warn players that the tie goes to the runner in baseball. Contact with goalies will be called strict.

No dman is intentionally going to knock highspeed opponents into his own goalie. So collisions are THE FAULT of the attacking player

This is a safety issue for the goalie. Plays where a forward might brush against a goalie while fighting for position outside the paint dont matter. Screens are allowed. Its part of the game that doesnt endanger the goalie

Honestly, its always bothered me more when a penalty should be called but isnt resulting in a goal. That's INTENTIONAL cheating!

If we have to accept intentional cheating blown ref calls, we can sure as hell live with accidental normal plays that might technically break a rule, but so minorly no one would ever notice without superslowmo

Agree with both of your points in this post about goalie interference and the offside challenge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Strafer

PatriceBergeronFan

Registered User
Jul 15, 2011
59,138
36,521
USA
I don't mind losing. Well I do, but it's part of the sport and part of the excitement. But these overturned goals because of a hairline distance 30 seconds prior that has to be reviewed frame by frame for 3-4 minutes is absolutely ridiculous.

After the goal reversal, I did something that I haven't done in many years. I turned the game off. It was Bruins VS Canadiens, the greatest rivalry in hockey history, tied in the 3rd period in a very high scoring game... And I had no interest in finishing the game. I hate that I felt this way, but I did. The excitement of the game was knocked out of me just like that.
It is too bad the NHL literally gives not one shit about true fans. The focus is 100% on attracting casual fans unfortunately.
 

Donnie Shulzhoffer

Rocket Surgery
Sep 9, 2008
15,596
11,003
Foxboro, MA
ALL they need to do to fix this problem is make the blue line thinner. As thin as the goal line perhaps.


Rule doesn’t need changing, onus doesn’t need to be more or less on refs, it’s just a hell of a lot easier for the puck to physically cross the line and a lot easier to tell if it has.

If that doesn’t work I like a rule amendment that says if opposing team touches the puck a review is negated, if the coach can’t decide within a minute to challenge then he can’t
Yes, lets add more detail and amendments to a complete broken process.

ALL they need to do is eliminate the video review for offsides.
 

member 96824

Guest
Meh.

Comes off sounding like sour grapes. I’d have rather gotten the “It is what it is. The rules are the rules.” canned Bill Belichick like answer.

Having said that, the implementation of the off sides challenge is brutal. I don’t know how you put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point, though. While it kills the momentum of the game, it’s hard to argue against getting the call right.

I think back to the playoff series against the Canadiens (2008?) where Kessel was clearly offsides. If I’m a player, coach, or fan on the other side and there’s a way to get the call right, I want it utilized.

F that, with all due respect.

Side effect of having a new baby is you watch a ton of hockey, especially at odd hours. The worst part of the game right now is watching officials on headsets while the on air commentators try and determine if a puck was a centimeter offside 2 minutes before a goal was scored.

The rule needs adjustment, glad Bruce is calling it out. Might sound like sour grapes because it cost them last night, but doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

(I’m not blaming last night’s loss on officiating)
 

BigBadBruins7708

Registered User
Dec 11, 2017
13,578
18,344
Las Vegas
There's an easy fix to make offsides challenges better, but the league won't do it.

Treat the blueline like the endzone in football. It stretches forever vertically. This removes the "skate in the air" aspect of current offsides which is the main culprit in these dumb overturned goals.

They also should amend it so that as soon as the defending team touches the puck the ability to challenge is gone. If you had a chance to clear and failed, you don't get to challenge
 

sarge88

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jan 29, 2003
25,303
20,494
Heck no. If we want any chance at all of this garbage going away it needs to be publicized.

Teams accepting it last year is why the NHL left it in place this season.

Based on the length of time put into the review it is CLEAR they were looking to find it offside. That is not at all how this should work. Officials should not be attempting to reinforce an unconscious expectation.

I'm of the mindset that you should never, ever refuse to take advantage of an opportunity to call the NHL out in situations where it's justified.

They are a tremendously flawed and inept entity and even though its unlikely to have an effect, they need to be held accountable in some way.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->