Fleury or Lehtonen ?

[Luigi Lemieux]

As will Atlanta. They already have Exelby playing well, and Coburn will join in. Pens have Whitney, who is still somewhat of a project, and Orpik who just graduated. Let's call that a wash for now.

On top of that, Exelby is more NHL seasoned than Orpik, and Coburn will probably be ready before Whitney. Which means they will jump in first. Atlanta's core forwards are already outstanding, and are only getting better. Penguin's forwards aren't nearly as talented nor as seasoned.

I think it's pretty clear of why Atlanta certainly has the upper hand right now. It may change down the line, but I doubt it. Years of extremely high picks will do that for you. The penguins have only been terrible in their salary dump, financial problem years. Before that, they were quite a team in the early 90's. It's not a knock on Pittsburgh, it's just the way I see it.

Also, Lehtonen isn't under any pressure to accelerate his development with the play of Nurminen already in Atlanta. Fleury was chucked in at 18, not because he was better than Lehtonen, but because he was better than anything else they had. Lehtonen can take his time and develop nicely while Nurminen enjoys his prime. Then he can take over when he's ready.

Would you not call that a better situation? I would.

I know the Pens are horrible right now, but one thing I know is that if we can keep our guys together, we're gonna have an awesome d corps. orpik, whitney, and welch should all be studs.

 

[Spiffy]

I know the Pens are horrible right now, but one thing I know is that if we can keep our guys together, we're gonna have an awesome d corps. orpik, whitney, and welch should all be studs.

And I wouldn't completly give up on guys like Drew Fata and Fernholm either.

 

[BlackJack21]

Give me Lethonen...

But I could be wrong...

At this point we can't say anything sure. For a 19-21 years old goalie any prediction is a big guess.

The guy that will that Olivier Michaud will have a better carreer that those 2 could be right!!! I doubt, but he could...

BJ21

 

[Rattrick]

Fleury by a mile. He'll be in top 5 in 3years for the best goalie

Ahh.. No.

Look at Luongo, he is just now a top 5 goalie (I would hope most would agree with that) and is still playing behind a really bad defense (worst in terms of shots against, but probably second worse to the Pens). It won't be 3 years because in 3 years, the Pens probably won't be a contender.

I honestly couldn't pick between these two and it is surely not by a mile, or canyon.

 

[JDB3939]

Lehtonen sounds like the better technical goalie. But Fleury is just so damned fast. The kid is oozing talent. I'd take Fleury. He turned in some of the most impressive goaltending games of anyone all season.

 

[Rattrick]

He turned in some of the most impressive goaltending games of anyone all season.

But in most of those games still gave up 3 or 4 goals. I am not knocking on the guy, just stating the obvious. I have seen the same process with Luongo. Skill-wise, he has been one of the best goalies in the league for a few years now, but it is just now all coming together. There were games that he played great and would still let in 3.

Most of the opinions here are coming from fans who support one of the teams (no, not at HF ).

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Ahh.. No.

Look at Luongo, he is just now a top 5 goalie (I would hope most would agree with that) and is still playing behind a really bad defense (worst in terms of shots against, but probably second worse to the Pens). It won't be 3 years because in 3 years, the Pens probably won't be a contender.

I honestly couldn't pick between these two and it is surely not by a mile, or canyon.

Luongo has been top 5 for at least a year now, an argument can be made that he is the best now.

 

[Hitman*]

Well, with the new goalie pad rules coming in, I think that the advantage will go to Fleury.

They are both technically and positionally solid (in fact, Lehtonen moreso). But Fleury is a reaction goalie who will be able to move in front of shots rather than have them hit him if you get my drift.

Time will tell though. Both will be excellent goalies.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Did Lehtonen ever play for the worst team in the NHL at 18?

Can't compare success at this point...jeez

 

[clefty]

Lethonen is a big game goalie. Fleury cleary isn't.

clearly?

Lehtonen sure was a big game goalie in the WJC's.

 

[Jeff Goldblum]

Lethonen is a big game goalie. Fleury cleary isn't.

Clearly...

Let the kid be old enough to buy alcohol in the US before you tell us if he's a big game goalie or not.

 

[Dr_Chimera*]

Well, with the new goalie pad rules coming in, I think that the advantage will go to Fleury.

They are both technically and positionally solid (in fact, Lehtonen moreso). But Fleury is a reaction goalie who will be able to move in front of shots rather than have them hit him if you get my drift.

Time will tell though. Both will be excellent goalies.

That's flawed thinking. The puck doesn't hit positional goalies, they get in front of it.

Lehtonen is no slower than Fleury, Fleury is simply flashier - it's like saying that Joseph is quicker than Belfour, because he flops around more.

I think that in order to be consistent, Fleury might have to simplify his game sooner than later.

 

[Hitman*]

Lethonen is a big game goalie. Fleury cleary isn't.

What has Lehtonen proven that Fleury hasn't. Neither has a WJC gold, and Lehtonen wasn't exactly stellar at the WJCs in Halifax. So really, neither are big game goalies.

 

[psycho_dad*]

What has Lehtonen proven that Fleury hasn't. Neither has a WJC gold, and Lehtonen wasn't exactly stellar at the WJCs in Halifax. So really, neither are big game goalies.

Thats just ignorant. Lehtonen has won a playoff series in a pro league (arguably second best in the world) and been selected the best goalie in Finnish league, I believe twice. At the age of 17 and 18.

 

[Epsilon]

All this "by a mile" nonsense is just that. There is not that much separating these two guys, certainly not enough to make some of the outlandish claims I've seen here. Really it depends on what you are looking for. From my limited viewing of both, I would have to say that Fleury has better reflexes and agility, while Lehtonen has superior technique and positioning. As far as WJCs go (which I couldn't really care less about, but people seem to love bringing them up), there isn't much told there either: both guys played better as 18 year olds than they did as 19 year olds, so it's not like you can say "well, one outperformed the other and then dominated even more the next year".

 

[Spiffy]

Thats just ignorant. Lehtonen has won a playoff series in a pro league (arguably second best in the world) and been selected the best goalie in Finnish league, I believe twice. At the age of 17 and 18.

While Fleury has just begun playing against seniors I believe... Before this season I'd say that Lehtonen had proven alot more since he was playing on a senior level while Fleury I believe was playing against other junior players.

 

[stardog]

Lehtonen by Grand canyon!

I really do hate this exaggerating going on in these boards. No comparison seems to be even or close, everything (even comparisons that are obviously close) has to be exaggerated one way or the other.

People are only using these "by a mile" and "hands down" because Fleury is Canadian and Lehtonen is not. Which one is the better goalie? Time will tell.

Nice generalization. Where is your proof Canadians prefer Fluery simply because of thier nationality? Can't peeople prefer Fluery simply because they think he will be the better goalie? Why bring race into the equation?

As for me....most of you know i am a die hard Pens fan. I love Lehtonen though. In the end, I think both will be just about even in terms of overall talent. I simply can't pick one over the other, and that bodes well for both the Thrash and the Pens, along with hockey fans in general.

 

[Jacob]

Lethonen is a big game goalie. Fleury cleary isn't.

If CB wins the memorial cup, will you change your opinion?

 

[stardog]

The defense in front of Lehtonen was also way worse than the defense Fleury had in front of him... Not an excuse but more of an explanation as to why Lehtonen's numbers weren't great.

Good point.

But this discussion has been over and over on these boards. I personally think it is unfair to say that Fluery chocked or that Canada lost because of him. Team sport, team game.
Fluery was brilliant the year before, so basing his "pressure play" on one game, when he has been brilliant in other pressure situations is unfair and a wrong assesment.

 

[stardog]

As will Atlanta. They already have Exelby playing well, and Coburn will join in. Pens have Whitney, who is still somewhat of a project, and Orpik who just graduated. Let's call that a wash for now.

On top of that, Exelby is more NHL seasoned than Orpik, and Coburn will probably be ready before Whitney. Which means they will jump in first. Atlanta's core forwards are already outstanding, and are only getting better. Penguin's forwards aren't nearly as talented nor as seasoned.

I think it's pretty clear of why Atlanta certainly has the upper hand right now. It may change down the line, but I doubt it. Years of extremely high picks will do that for you. The penguins have only been terrible in their salary dump, financial problem years. Before that, they were quite a team in the early 90's. It's not a knock on Pittsburgh, it's just the way I see it.

Also, Lehtonen isn't under any pressure to accelerate his development with the play of Nurminen already in Atlanta. Fleury was chucked in at 18, not because he was better than Lehtonen, but because he was better than anything else they had. Lehtonen can take his time and develop nicely while Nurminen enjoys his prime. Then he can take over when he's ready.

Would you not call that a better situation? I would.

You are forgetting Welch, who many feel (myself included) is a better prospect than either Orpik or Whitney.

And while I REALLY like Exelby, I would rather have Brooks Orpik on my team. That being said, I would also rather have Coburn than Whitney, though many of my fellow Pens fans may disagree.

Your team is a solid YOUNG team. Our prospects are better. The future for both teams looks bright, though ATL will be in a better position to foster a young goalie before Pittsburgh will. That I agree with.

 

[stardog]

Ahh.. No.

Look at Luongo, he is just now a top 5 goalie (I would hope most would agree with that) and is still playing behind a really bad defense (worst in terms of shots against, but probably second worse to the Pens). It won't be 3 years because in 3 years, the Pens probably won't be a contender.

I honestly couldn't pick between these two and it is surely not by a mile, or canyon.

But the Panthers aren't contenders either, yet Luongo IS one of the top five goalies in the league. Just because the team isn't a contender, doesn't mean a given player on that team can't be a top five player.

 

[stardog]

That's flawed thinking. The puck doesn't hit positional goalies, they get in front of it.

Lehtonen is no slower than Fleury, Fleury is simply flashier - it's like saying that Joseph is quicker than Belfour, because he flops around more.

I think that in order to be consistent, Fleury might have to simplify his game sooner than later.

Point understood, but I think Fluery IS slightly quicker than Lehtonen.

 

[thedjpd]

The future for both teams looks bright, though ATL will be in a better position to foster a young goalie before Pittsburgh will. That I agree with.

Well that's my point. In no way did I say Atlanta will have a better team than Pittsburgh in the future, only time will tell. But I DID say that since they are already making the transition that Pittsburgh has yet to begin, Lehtonen is in a better SITUATION to develop than Fleury is. That's all.

 

[Taxman]

Lehtonen has proven his mettle in some big games:

Lehtonen, the highest-drafted European goaltender in NHL history, posted a 39-19-9 record, nine shutouts and a 1.91 goals-against average in 72 career games with Jokerit-Helsinki of the Finnish Elite League from 2000-03. The 19-year-old netminder has won the Urpo-Ylonen Trophy as the Finnish Elite League's best goaltender for the last two seasons (2001-02 and 2002-03). He was also named to the 2002-03 Finnish Elite League All-Star Team and Most Valuable Player of the 2002 playoffs.

The 6-3, 190-pound goaltender posted a 23-14-6 record with a 1.98 GAA and a .928 save percentage in 45 regular-season games for Jokerit-Helsinki last season, while setting career highs for games (45), wins (23), ties (six), shutouts (five) and minutes (2635). He helped the team reach the semifinals of the 2003 Finnish Elite League playoffs, posting a 6-4-0 record, two shutouts, a 1.63 GAA and a .941 save percentage before falling to HPK Hameenlinna.

Lehtonen earned MVP honors and led Jokerit-Helsinki to the 2002 league championship as the league's youngest goalie. He led the league with 11 games, eight wins, 623 minutes, a .940 save percentage and three shutouts in the postseason. During the 2001-02 regular season, he was 13-5-3 with a 1.79 GAA and four shutouts in 23 games.

Led Jokerit-Helsinki to the 2002-03 Continental Cup over the Russian champion Yaroslavl, finishing with 3-0-0 record, a 1.67 goals-against average and a .942 save percentage in three games.

The native of Helsinki, Finland has represented his county in international competitions on nine occasions, including the 2003 World Championships in which he backed up Pasi Nurminen and Jani Hurme, but did not play. Lehtonen led Finland to the bronze medal at both the 2003 and 2002 World Championships, being named among Finland's Three Stars in 2003 and Best Goaltender in 2002 after leading all goalies with a 1.17 GAA and a .943 save percentage. He also served as the backup goaltender for the silver-medal winning Finnish team at the 2001 World Junior Championships.

So, he basically helped one team win the league championship and another win the Continental Cup. I would say he has showed he is pretty damn good under pressure already.

 

[No Quarter*]

I can't make a judgement because of the 2 Fleury is the only one I've seen play. But I'll tell you what, he's gonna be a top 3 goalie in the NHL in about 5 years, possibly "the best in the league". I guess the fans that have seen Lehtonen play can make the same arguement.