Fleury is out in upset

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RyanM

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The problem in Cape Breton was not goaltending, it was certain players who did not care for this team and did not show up in the playoffs. We had 5 or 6 guys who just did not care and 14 or 15 guys who went all out and wanted this team to win more then anything.

As a fan it was really difficult to watch a few ruin it for everyone.
 

craig1

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Handsome B. Wonderful said:
From what I've been able to read goaltending wasn't CB's problem in this series, it was everything else.

The team just flat out didn't show up.



But if the team in front of you sucks for a series and doesn't show up, doesn't make it the goalies fault? :shakehead

Look, MAF is a top flight prospect. One of the 2 best in the world......you can argue between MAF and KL.

Some people may be bitter, or just don't like him......there were, and still are people who think Roy wasn't that good, or Brodeur is a product of NJ.......And as Pens fans, we've heard Lemieux detractors for years too! You can't please everyone.....MAF is a great prospect, with a great future....you know it. I know it. Let others fool themselves just to make themselves feel better.
 

The Big P

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PanthersRule said:
Man, I had a feeling and still do that he will be a bust, but is definately not one yet.

He's so young at 18, and possibly won't reach his prime untill 26 still, but he has had a bad year this year in the clutch when it counts. But then again, many Quebec goalies reach their potential early like Luongo who was still stellar in juniors but played for a horrendous NYI team.

IMO Horton, Staal, Zherdev and Fleury are all even and you could change them all around and it would work.

In the future, I think Fleury will be a good goalie, maybe top 5 in the NHL, but not top 3. Lehtonen is far better than him. I see Fleury just a slight level below what Jose Theodore is now.

In 3 years, the top goalies IMO will be

Luongo
Lehtonen
Fleury
Vokun
Denis
Ouellet
Theodore

He'll be among them, but not at the top 3 IMO.
What are you trying to say here? That Fleury will be a bust because he'll "only" be in the top three goalies in the league by the age of 22? I don't get your post.
 

craig1

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RyanM said:
The problem in Cape Breton was not goaltending, it was certain players who did not care for this team and did not show up in the playoffs. We had 5 or 6 guys who just did not care and 14 or 15 guys who went all out and wanted this team to win more then anything.

As a fan it was really difficult to watch a few ruin it for everyone.


How did Talbot do? I have trouble seeing him not caring.
 

craig1

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JDB3939 said:
I didn't think Talbot played for Cape Brenton. I think you mean Dixon.


I did mean Dixon........I was in the middle of trying to find Talbots stats for the year when I wrote my post......Trying to think more than one thought at the same is not good!
 

Pachoo

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Having seen both goalies several games each, I have to say, I disagree with the assessment that Fleury is hands down the fastest goalie in the league. Lehtonen is even faster than Fleury. He is lightning quick.
 

Daniel_Tkaczuk

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go kim johnsson said:
probably. but Marc-Andre Fleury was the most overhyped player since Eric Lindros. Moreso than Ovechkin. Probably because of the media proclaiming him the answer to everyone's goaltender problems and the fact he was the only goalie capable going in round 1. Not only that but Pittsburgh can't afford him to begin with.

That is probably one of the most rediculous things I have ever read on this board. I am going to borrow from what Ryan M said on the QMJHL Board, we're talking about a netminder who went 8-1-1 in the regular season. It was just a matter of some players (Bernier, Guenette, Dixon, Corbeil, etc...) who weren't contributing.

Having said this, you can't take away what Chicoutimi has done this year, it's incredible what they're accomplishing without a big name scorer per say. This is a team who traded Mathieu Melanson for a pick to build for the future lol wow. that's all i have to say about the Sags' performance.

Back to Fleury, if he had played consistently this way all season, he would have led Q goaltenders in almost every category (including SP, GAA, and wins). Goaltenders take longer to develop, and Fleury will be no exception. We're not talking about the next Jamie Storr here.
 

Daniel_Tkaczuk

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windowlicker said:
The end result of this series is simple to decipher. Deslauriers outplayed Fleury.

Don't get me wrong, before Fleury came back I had Drouin-Deslauriers as the #1 drafted prospect in the Q. But in terms of who will be the better goalie, there's a reason Marc-Andre made the WJC Team and Jeff didn't two years ago and it wasn't hype.

Speaking two years after the fact, having seen both goalies play in the Q this year, Fleury still looks like the better talent. It's hard to say it's by a long shot because they're both great goaltenders, but it's still by a good margin.

As far as one outplaying the other, I can't comment on it. But Demers was scoring (6 goals) and no one else was (no one else scored more than 1).
 

Vlad The Impaler

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go kim johnsson said:
probably. but Marc-Andre Fleury was the most overhyped player since Eric Lindros. Moreso than Ovechkin. Probably because of the media proclaiming him the answer to everyone's goaltender problems and the fact he was the only goalie capable going in round 1. Not only that but Pittsburgh can't afford him to begin with.

I dunno about Eric Lindros, GKJ. At the time the draft rolled, he was IMO the best prospect since Lemieux and nobody since then has matched that much surefire natural talent and upside. You don't see very often such a package of skills, size, speed and grit.

Considering how is career went, I'd say he lived up to the hype early on until maybe 24-26 when injury problems started becoming more of an issue. Up until a few years ago, he still had one of the top 5 ppg average in the NHL, I think. Above a great many people.

That's despite the fact he began his career just when defensive play became an issue and the goals per game were dropping league-wide.

Even today, if you pro-rate Lindros total numbers (including this year) you still get to 100 points per (82 games) season average for his entire NHL career.

Then you look at people getting excited when guys like Doan and Bertuzzi break out at 26-27 years old and it just confirms Lindros was a fairly special prospect who would probably dominate right now. Injuries have really destroyed what could have been a special career. In fact, I would say it was a great career early on.

Development is key but as far as raw potential at around 18 years old, nobody has touched Lindros for a long time. Not Thornton, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Lecavalier, Bouwmeester etc. Nobody.
 

flyercide

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go kim johnsson said:
i live in philadelphia, lindros was NOT THE most dominant player in the league. he consistently took nights off and then he got injured.

The difference between the players you list are that Fleury was more hyped going into the draft as opposed to some of the players you mention (The Sedins, Brendl and Spezza didn't go #1 overall) and some of those guys weren't close to being overhyped as Fleury. (Lecavalier, Brendl). People knew Brendl was a gamble.

i disagree gkj.. i think your memory is distorted by the later part of his career as a flyer. lindros was in my opinion the most dominate player in the league especially early on in his career... preinjuries. it really doesnt matter if you think forsberg or jagr was better than him. lindros was still top 3. i think that would be tough to deny if you actually watched him play. i think you are remembering a more controlled lindros who was trying to change his game to avoid injury per clarkes instructions. the flyers(coaches/clarke) asked lindros to start controlling his game to stop checking everything in site etc. lindros had it all.. cannon for a shot, good passing touch & a meaness unmatched by any skilled player in the league. he was most definately worth all the hype he received and I don't think he fell short... clarke did.
 

Sag96

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You forget a name for Chicoutimi...Stanislav Lascek!!!! He's the first scorer (QMJHL) in playoffs with 17 pts in 12 games (Chicoutimi has scored 35 goals in 12 games). His line with Desharnais and Boisclair is one of the best in playoffs. Chicoutimi won 8 games in 2 series and Lascek was one of the 3 stars six times. He played very well against Val D'Or and Cap Breton. He's an impact player now, the master piece of our powerplay and he's only 17 years old. More he plays and better he's!!!!! Great determination and character no doubt about it. And don't forget he was one of the 10 best rookies in CHL!!!!!
 

Luigi Lemieux

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is it possible fleury was getting complacent in juniors?

he goes down and totally dominates, 8-1-1, 1.98 gaa or something. maybe he was getting bored. he doesn't belong in juniors anymore.

maybe cb was expecting fleury to stand on his head for them and win the games, and they got complacent too?
 

PanthersRule96

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The Big P said:
What are you trying to say here? That Fleury will be a bust because he'll "only" be in the top three goalies in the league by the age of 22? I don't get your post.
I never said he'll be top 3. It's hard to explain. I just have a weird feeling that he will be a bust, but feelings aside, I think that he should be a top 10 goalie in 3 years and top7 maybe, but not top3 or top 5. I'm saying that, by using reason, I think he'll be good, but I just have a strange feeling about him being a bust.

You know, when you have a strange feeling about something, but then you think about it and sometimes can logically prove it wrong, Well, basically, I can't PROVE it wrong, but, by all the hype, I can't logically imagine him being a big bust.

I think he'll be good, but not a superstar.
 

Jeff Goldblum

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PanthersRule said:
I never said he'll be top 3. It's hard to explain. I just have a weird feeling that he will be a bust, but feelings aside, I think that he should be a top 10 goalie in 3 years and top7 maybe, but not top3 or top 5. I'm saying that, by using reason, I think he'll be good, but I just have a strange feeling about him being a bust.

You know, when you have a strange feeling about something, but then you think about it and sometimes can logically prove it wrong, Well, basically, I can't PROVE it wrong, but, by all the hype, I can't logically imagine him being a big bust.

I think he'll be good, but not a superstar.


I know what you mean. Logic tells you he'll be great, but you have a gut instinct that says he'll bust. Same gut instinct I had about Talbot, Bartschi, and Goepfert being players that would prove to be better than their draft position after the '02 draft.
 

Flames Draft Watcher

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RyanM said:
The problem in Cape Breton was not goaltending, it was certain players who did not care for this team and did not show up in the playoffs. We had 5 or 6 guys who just did not care and 14 or 15 guys who went all out and wanted this team to win more then anything.

As a fan it was really difficult to watch a few ruin it for everyone.

How did Ramholt do?
 

stardog

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go kim johnsson said:
probably. but Marc-Andre Fleury was the most overhyped player since Eric Lindros. Moreso than Ovechkin. Probably because of the media proclaiming him the answer to everyone's goaltender problems and the fact he was the only goalie capable going in round 1. Not only that but Pittsburgh can't afford him to begin with.

The ignorance on display on all things Pittsburgh is astounding.
Tell me exactly, how is Maffy more hyped than any prospect since Lindros?
Was he the clear cut number 1?
You have an agenda. That much is obvious. It is an agenda which is for anything Anti-Penguins. But when using your agenda, if you are going to state your OPINION, at least say it is your opinion and not a fact.
Personally, I think that is one of the stupidest things I have read on these boards. I dont know of anybody who would say that Maffy is more hyped than Ovechkin, or any PLAYER (not prospect) since Lindros.
And if Pitt trades him then there is proof that they are unable to afford him. Until that time, keep your suppositions as opinions and not as fact.
 

Flames Draft Watcher

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go kim johnsson said:
probably. but Marc-Andre Fleury was the most overhyped player since Eric Lindros. Moreso than Ovechkin. Probably because of the media proclaiming him the answer to everyone's goaltender problems and the fact he was the only goalie capable going in round 1. Not only that but Pittsburgh can't afford him to begin with.

Disagree. MAF wasn't even the consensus #1 pick. I think the hype surrounding him was less than Lecavalier, Thornton, Kovalchuk, Spezza, etc.
 
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