GDT: Flames vs Jackets (5pm on Sportsnet)

Flameshomer

Likeaholic
Aug 26, 2010
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Edmonton
Are McCabe and Scandella steady or just bad?

Hamonic was thought to be steady but he's been anything but (he did have his best game of the year last night imo though)

Hamonic has been better than Brodie outside of 1 game this season IMO. I agree that his best game was last night, and I do think he looked pretty bad in the two games following his injury. Otherwise he looks like a dman with good skills trying to learn a new system and get used to a weird partner.
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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So Brodie's no longer playing like a #2, but rather like a top four defenceman. Which is where is currently plays in the lineup, on the second pairing and not on top one. And lines up with his 4.65M cap hit.

And is this is a problem, why exactly?

Honestly, so many sound like petty highschoolers unable to manage their expectations.

'Backlund not immediately a top liner?! I'm done; just get rid of him.'

'Ferland being inconsistent in his rookie?! This is too much; he's needs to be waived now.'

'Bennett not dominating at the age of 21!? Bust.'

And now

'Brodie regressing back to just a #3?! Inconcievable!? Trade him now!'

It's ridiculous.
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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Because the powerplay coach has issues. Brodie (and Versteeg) shouldn't be on the first unit; it should be Giordano and either Hamilton or Stone.

But that's still a coaching issue; it's pretty clear that Brodie and whether's it's Stone or Hamonic, are not the top pairing. That belongs to Giordano and Hamilton. You don't get rid of a perfectly useful player on a solid cap hit because the coaching staff is over utilizing him in one area.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,176
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Then why is he not getting the ice time of a 2nd pair guy?
I agree, his ice-time needs to be reduced, especially at ES. I think it is time to give Kulak and Stone a little more time. Right now Brodie is playing about 2 minutes per game more than Hamonic at ES, almost the same difference between Stone and Kulak.

I have no issues with Brodie getting the most ice-time of the defenders because he plays on the top PP unit and 2nd PK unit, but at ES I would like to see the Flames keep all of their top 4 defensemen around 16-18 minutes a night and then they could play Stone and Kulak about 14-16 minutes per night as ES.

I'd also like to see Stone replace Versteeg on the top PP unit as having a big shot would add an extra dimension to the PP.
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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Victoria
So Brodie's no longer playing like a #2, but rather like a top four defenceman. Which is where is currently plays in the lineup, on the second pairing and not on top one. And lines up with his 4.65M cap hit.

And is this is a problem, why exactly?

Exactly. I'm not saying people are applying recency bias when they're saying he's not a top defenceman in the league. I think his overall body of work is showing that he's a hot/cold kind of player who can be a beast when he's on and, occasionally, a liability when he's not. Perhaps there's a way to figure out what makes the difference between him being on and off, and doing what we can to try and have him on as much as possible.

I'm saying people are applying recency bias when saying he's a bum that needs to be traded. This all seems to be based on expectation. People are mad at him playing like a second-pairing guy when he was once talked about as a first-pairing guy, and the solution to this is to trade him for a player who is only capable of being a second-pairing guy, I guess because that way we'd be less disappointed when he plays exactly like Brodie is now? I take the guy who has the ability to be a superstar sometimes, and a #4 the rest of the time, over the guy who is a solid #4.

Regarding that first paragraph, though, what I've seen this year is that he's struggled with Hamonic, but looked good with Stone. Last year, he improved dramatically after the Stone acquisition. Maybe there's something in that. When Hamilton was first acquired, Giordano looked like garbage with him. In retrospect, it's easy to see what happened: Hamilton needed a lot of time to adjust, and his play and the lack of chemistry there really affected Gio. When he did adjust, they were put together and are now dynamite. I'm thinking the same thing is likely to be true with Hamonic. I think a short-term experiment that could be beneficial would be swap Hamonic and Stone. It's entirely possible (I would say likely based on track record) that a lack of chemistry on the second pairing is more to blame than the ability level of the two defencemen there.
 
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Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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Yeah, it's same irrational mentality on display as when Byron couldn't cash in on all his breakaways. Didn't matter that he was getting them and the affect that had on game dynamics, just the fact that he wasn't scoring meant he had to go.

Can't lose sight of the forest because of the trees.
 

SmellOfVictory

Registered User
Jun 3, 2011
10,959
653
So Brodie's no longer playing like a #2, but rather like a top four defenceman. Which is where is currently plays in the lineup, on the second pairing and not on top one. And lines up with his 4.65M cap hit.

And is this is a problem, why exactly?

Honestly, so many sound like petty highschoolers unable to manage their expectations.

'Backlund not immediately a top liner?! I'm done; just get rid of him.'

'Ferland being inconsistent in his rookie?! This is too much; he's needs to be waived now.'

'Bennett not dominating at the age of 21!? Bust.'

And now

'Brodie regressing back to just a #3?! Inconcievable!? Trade him now!'

It's ridiculous.
Brodie's defensive play has gone from top pairing level to low end 2nd pairing, for some reason. I don't think he should be moved, but there is definitely a problem there. He clearly has the ability, but he's making a lot of significant errors with regularity.

Hamonic, on the other hand, just doesn't seem to be able to handle players who have any speed. He can't defend zone entries to save his life, and on the rush I think it may be affecting Brodie because he's trying to cover too much ice with Hamonic doing Hamonic things.
 

Dack

Registered User
Jun 16, 2014
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So Brodie's no longer playing like a #2, but rather like a top four defenceman. Which is where is currently plays in the lineup, on the second pairing and not on top one. And lines up with his 4.65M cap hit.

And is this is a problem, why exactly?

Honestly, so many sound like petty highschoolers unable to manage their expectations.

'Backlund not immediately a top liner?! I'm done; just get rid of him.'

'Ferland being inconsistent in his rookie?! This is too much; he's needs to be waived now.'

'Bennett not dominating at the age of 21!? Bust.'


And now

'Brodie regressing back to just a #3?! Inconcievable!? Trade him now!'

It's ridiculous.
Sadly that one isn't really overreaction, this is his 3rd full season and he's been awful. I liked him and want him to succeed but he's on pace for 11 points and has taken a bunch of penalties. His underlying numbers are horrid and he's only putting about 1 shot on goal a game.
 

MonyontheMoney

Registered User
Apr 5, 2015
4,429
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Exactly. I'm not saying people are applying recency bias when they're saying he's not a top defenceman in the league. I think his overall body of work is showing that he's a hot/cold kind of player who can be a beast when he's on and, occasionally, a liability when he's not. Perhaps there's a way to figure out what makes the difference between him being on and off, and doing what we can to try and have him on as much as possible.

I'm saying people are applying recency bias when saying he's a bum that needs to be traded. This all seems to be based on expectation. People are mad at him playing like a second-pairing guy when he was once talked about as a first-pairing guy, and the solution to this is to trade him for a player who is only capable of being a second-pairing guy, I guess because that way we'd be less disappointed when he plays exactly like Brodie is now? I take the guy who has the ability to be a superstar sometimes, and a #4 the rest of the time, over the guy who is a solid #4.

I don't think that's the point some of us are trying to make - at least I know it's not mine.

If the team is relying on Brodie to play 20 ES minutes a night, I think that's a clear indication the organization, or at least one of the important people in it think he's our #1 guy. Which he isn't, and that's not just a what have you done for me lately, it seems widely agreed that he's not at the level, and hasn't been for more than just a little stretch.

If they aren't willing to strip some of that time away from Brodie, and give it to Giordano (our true #1) or spread the minutes out amongst the other pairs, then they need to get someone who can be. That's the point, because it's abundantly clear that T.J can't handle it. That doesn't mean getting someone who is a Brodie comparable, that means an upgrade.

I don't think that has to be done, though. Giordano is still playing at an elite level where he can be that guy.

If it's agreed Brodie has he playing at a #3/#4 level, play him as a #3/#4. Is that not a logical argument?
 
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Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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I don't think that's the point some of us are trying to make - at least I know it's not mine.

If the team is relying on Brodie to play 20 ES minutes a night, I think that's a clear indication the organization, or at least one of the important people in it think he's our #1 guy. Which he isn't, and that's not just a what have you done for me lately, it seems widely agreed that he's not at the level, and hasn't been for more than just a little stretch.

If they aren't willing to strip some of that time away from Brodie, and give it to Giordano (our true #1) or spread the minutes out amongst the other pairs, then they need to get someone who can be. That's the point, because it's abundantly clear that T.J can't handle it. That doesn't mean getting someone who is a Brodie comparable, that means an upgrade.

I don't think that has to be done, though. Giordano is still playing at an elite level where he can be that guy.

If it's agreed Brodie has he playing at a #3/#4 level, play him as a #3/#4. Is that not a logical argument?
Sure. I was responding to wanting to trade Brodie/fire him into the sun, which has been bandied about this year after every time he has a bad game. But, curiously, talk goes quiet when he doesn't have a bad game.

Personally, I think the first step is to try switching Stone and Hamonic to give Brodie/Stone a larger sample size to judge him by.

Then, if he's still looking as bad as he has in many games this year, you make changes to his usage. Mistakes like the one in OT last night aren't really indicative of much. He's an NHL player, so "failing to handle the puck at a 9-year-old competency level" obviously isn't a built-in trait of his. Just a once-off, that probably happens more with less confidence. So it could be that his play with Hamonic is affecting all facets of his game.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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9,343
Calgary
So Brodie's no longer playing like a #2, but rather like a top four defenceman. Which is where is currently plays in the lineup, on the second pairing and not on top one. And lines up with his 4.65M cap hit.

And is this is a problem, why exactly?

Honestly, so many sound like petty highschoolers unable to manage their expectations.

'Backlund not immediately a top liner?! I'm done; just get rid of him.'

'Ferland being inconsistent in his rookie?! This is too much; he's needs to be waived now.'

'Bennett not dominating at the age of 21!? Bust.'

And now

'Brodie regressing back to just a #3?! Inconcievable!? Trade him now!'

It's ridiculous.

Excellent post Calculon.

Personally for me, I wouldn’t be looking to move Brodie (but I’ve had this convo with Meth offline), I just question what our biggest need is? I would move Brodie, but it would need to be in the right deal.

I’ve been super frustrated with Brodie of late, but we shouldn’t be looking to ship him off for the sake of it just like we shouldn’t be doing that with Bennett. What frustrates me is, Brodie’s problems are himself. It’s his carelessness in his own end and I feel that is something that can be corrected by the coaching staff. I’m actually more frustrated with Gulutzan than I am with Brodie.
 

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