GDT: Flames vs. Canucks 4/4 "your code name is Rittich?" (8:00pm)

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EDIT: TL; DR - I'm fighting semantics, but while many of you are arguing management stupidity as the root of the issues, I actually think it's lunacy. This team doesn't look like it's going into depression slumps like they did under other coaches. This time it freaking looks bipolar.

I get what you’re saying and why, but I think you’re looking at the glass half full. I see a coach who’s desperate and throwing any kind of **** to see what sticks. It’s not that hard, he has an excellent top 9, he just needs to employ it and the players have to go play.

I see a group where the players are frustrated and look divided and look like they’re quitting on the coach.

The weird thing is that there are certain players who are absolutely hands down superior under Ward vs other coaches. It's not even close to see how Mony, JG, Lucic, Hanifin and some of those guys are playing vs other coaches they've played for in the last 5 seasons.

You have guys like Markstrom doing great, then he literally goes AWOL.

Gio, Tkachuk, Andersson and some of those guys are playing like ass.

Then individually, they go back and forth between awesome, amazing and ass.

He is a 58 year old rookie head coach whose claim to fame is being a power play genius AND coaching Lucic when Lucic was great. I am not sure why we keep thinking he is going to get this team to commit.

Actually, I think this explanation is downplaying what he's doing. He has also gotten the team to play more styles of play than I've seen from like the last 3 coaches combined. There's multiple types of zone entries. There's far more variation in the passing types. I've seen drop pass, stretch pass, slap pass, tap pass... etc. He's blended the lines more than the last 2 guys combined.

You're giving Ward way too much credit.

I am wondering about that. But there's seemingly no denying that visually, there's been significantly more variation by a seriously wide margin. I've mentioned before that Ward seems like an absolute mad scientist. If Hartley had 1 system (being generous) and Gulutzan/Peters had two, Ward looks like he's trying to deploy like 5 systems.

We've seen certain guys look really improved in a good way and many looking really bad. Some looked like they had a skip in their step, and are looking like they're burning out. I really don't get it. But straight up, the team doesn't look like the talent is swinging full good/bad as a group like we've seen under other coaches. There is a full on dichotomy of good and bad coexisting in whatever the hell Ward is deploying as a tactic in all players. It's crazy.

His systems are kinda wonky and crazy and seemingly incomplete, so he seemingly deserves blame. But he's also pointing at players not fully being consistent and giving a shit.

Yes, I might be giving him a wee bit more credit, but if he's truly over his head, he's definitely not a pure Gulutzan same shit and hope for different result type of person. If Ward is getting unhinged, he's unscrewing the kitchen sinks in all the player's homes so that he can deploy them as we speak.

 

[Mobiandi]

Honestly I think Ward isn't a bad coach but he seems to be coaching for his job right now.

We saw what vision he had for this team vs the Jets and the Stars in the playoffs. Night and day to the garbage we're seeing now. I think he's lost the room but I also think the players are playing to get Treliving fired too

 

[Sparky93]

Honestly I think Ward isn't a bad coach but he seems to be coaching for his job right now.

We saw what vision he had for this team vs the Jets and the Stars in the playoffs. Night and day to the garbage we're seeing now. I think he's lost the room but I also think the players are playing to get Treliving fired too

So you're saying this core, that has now apparently quit on 4 consecutive coaches, with vastly different approaches, which is more than enough to label them uncoachable, IMO, now wants the GM fired? Sounds like more than enough reason to start moving players out to me.

 

[DomBarr]

EDIT: TL; DR - I'm fighting semantics, but while many of you are arguing management stupidity as the root of the issues, I actually think it's lunacy. This team doesn't look like it's going into depression slumps like they did under other coaches. This time it freaking looks bipolar.
...

Yes, I might be giving him a wee bit more credit, but if he's truly over his head, he's definitely not a pure Gulutzan same shit and hope for different result type of person. If Ward is getting unhinged, he's unscrewing the kitchen sinks in all the player's homes so that he can deploy them as we speak.

All that and its no wonder the team is inconsistent and playing confused...
Ward is giving the entire team the 7 yr Bennett treatment in 2 months

 

[BudRobinson53]

Peter Maher used to say it all the time. In an 82 game schedule, it's how you play between games 20 - 40 that basically dictate who and what you are as a team that season.

I think when this core was young, under Hartley and they beat Vancouver without Gio in the playoffs that year, they created a bad habit of not playing to potential until the games "truly mattered". I think that isn't to say it's something that comes from those core players specifically, but something impressed upon them from other players throughout the league. Then, the 2nd place finish under Peters, saw them outscore opponents in the 3rd period by thousands. This really shaped the team mentality of "we don't need a full 60, we just need to stay in games and focus on that last period."

A better mentality and way to achieve success in this league, is when Jon Cooper explained how Tbay for several seasons would destroy opponents, but play the wrong way. Playing globetrotter hockey, you score 2, we will score 5, which worked fine in the regular season, but saw them take a big first round exit the same year as the Flames. After that, they focused on getting and holding leads.

The Flames have to start to learn to obtain a lead and maintain it. They already have a PHD in coming from behind - one of the best, but they have to start games on time, get leads and hold them. We know they have the goaltender to do this, now they need commitment from the rest of the roster.

 

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All that and its no wonder the team is inconsistent and playing confused...
Ward is giving the entire team the 7 yr Bennett treatment in 2 months

Yes. Precisely.

 

[JohnLennon]

Andersson seemed to have his best game the game before last. Any reason why the coach kept him on third pairing? I saw the article wherein he says he wants Rasmus to simplify his game and foresees him being back on top pairing/top powerplay soon, but I get the impression most Flames fans want Valimaki there long-term instead.

I've always been under the impression that Rasmus Andersson was the future 1D on Calgary. Do most think that is reserved for Valimaki, or are you mostly split on this?

 

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Andersson seemed to have his best game the game before last. Any reason why the coach kept him on third pairing? I saw the article wherein he says he wants Rasmus to simplify his game and foresees him being back on top pairing/top powerplay soon, but I get the impression most Flames fans want Valimaki there long-term instead.

I've always been under the impression that Rasmus Andersson was the future 1D on Calgary. Do most think that is reserved for Valimaki, or are you mostly split on this?

Doghouse. Ward claims Andersson wasn't focusing on his 5v5 play and this was part of getting him refocused. Andersson was pulled off the PP and Valimaki replaced him there. I believe Ward mentioned that he saw improvements. I honestly think that those two will get PP time there long term and someone else will be demoted.

Honestly speaking, some of the things Ward is mentioning in his pressers confuse me. I usually have no problem understanding what the coach is describing, but what Ward is deploying is a dogs breakfast.

I dunno about split Andersson vs Valimaki. Andersson that high is pretty new opinion.

Andersson was still on the third pairing last season as our RD (behind Brodie and Hamonic). This season is the first season he's been on top pair and our fans are kinda starting to get a 1/2 dman range of expectation from him, but this is new. When he was first drafted, many likely hoped for a #3 at best. Now, it's higher. Kinda like Brodie.

Valimaki was supposedly touted as a Gio clone by our scouts during the draft. He's has 1D potential and expectations from some fans from the get go. Some who are conservative set their expectations low and hoped for a 2/3 dman ceiling, especially after his injury.

Hanifin has had a 2/3 ceiling for a while that some weren't hopeful he'd hit, but he's also a pure bred talent who was drafted high for a reason. We are starting quietly see some rumblings from some fans this season about how he might be a defacto #1 for us and solid #2 going forward. Some are unchanged in the 2/3 ceiling and crediting the success to Tanev.

Tanev was used as Vancouver's defacto #1D for a while. Gio was our defacto #1D for a while. Both are likely going to slide out of favor quickly due to age and the young guys are going to take over.

 

[JohnLennon]

Doghouse. Ward claims Andersson wasn't focusing on his 5v5 play and this was part of getting him refocused. Andersson was pulled off the PP and Valimaki replaced him there. I believe Ward mentioned that he saw improvements. I honestly think that those two will get PP time there long term and someone else will be demoted.

Honestly speaking, some of the things Ward is mentioning in his pressers confuse me. I usually have no problem understanding what the coach is describing, but what Ward is deploying is a dogs breakfast.

I dunno about split Andersson vs Valimaki. Andersson that high is pretty new opinion.

Andersson was still on the third pairing last season as our RD (behind Brodie and Hamonic). This season is the first season he's been on top pair and our fans are kinda starting to get a 1/2 dman range of expectation from him, but this is new. When he was first drafted, many likely hoped for a #3 at best. Now, it's higher. Kinda like Brodie.

Valimaki was supposedly touted as a Gio clone by our scouts during the draft. He's has 1D potential and expectations from some fans from the get go. Some who are conservative set their expectations low and hoped for a 2/3 dman ceiling, especially after his injury.

Hanifin has had a 2/3 ceiling for a while that some weren't hopeful he'd hit, but he's also a pure bred talent who was drafted high for a reason. We are starting quietly see some rumblings from some fans this season about how he might be a defacto #1 for us and solid #2 going forward. Some are unchanged in the 2/3 ceiling and crediting the success to Tanev.

Tanev was used as Vancouver's defacto #1D for a while. Gio was our defacto #1D for a while. Both are likely going to slide out of favor quickly due to age and the young guys are going to take over.

Thanks for the detailed reply. Goes with my impression - that Flames defense is in a state of flux and my original impression that the line shuffling may persist could be correct!!

I'm pulling for Andersson on that top powerplay. I really like his game. But most of all, I hope Ward decides on some stable pairings and sticks to them. It would help the up and coming guys a lot imo.

 

[BudRobinson53]

I love Andersson's heart, his compete level. He's always in scrums putting a bearhug on the other team's biggest guy, chirping back and I can see that he is an excellent teammate.

What does surprise me is out of the entire Flames roster (I include Milan Lucic!) his skating is very labored, not fluid and it seems like he has to expend a heck of an amount of energy to go back to retrieve pucks etc. I don't think a top pairing defenseman can have a skating level like this, despite how hard he is on the puck and his GAF level.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Whether you're a fan of Ward or not, (I am not), he is frustrated with this group and feels they are playing without caring. Something in that lockeroom is going on.

A lot of this falls on Tre and the coaches. The Flames have handled the Bennett situation terribly. It looks like Tkachuk is not himself and I am going to speculate that in the players meeting, they told him to stop playing like such a shit. That is Tkachuk's game and maybe what we're seeing is a result of that and he is somewhat checked out because he feels like he cannot be himself.

Something needs to change, this has been going on for many seasons.

 

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I love Andersson's heart, his compete level. He's always in scrums putting a bearhug on the other team's biggest guy, chirping back and I can see that he is an excellent teammate.

What does surprise me is out of the entire Flames roster (I include Milan Lucic!) his skating is very labored, not fluid and it seems like he has to expend a heck of an amount of energy to go back to retrieve pucks etc. I don't think a top pairing defenseman can have a skating level like this, despite how hard he is on the puck and his GAF level.

I wonder if there are some left over implications or reaggravating of the foot injury.

Whether you're a fan of Ward or not, (I am not), he is frustrated with group and feels they are playing without caring. Something in that lockeroom is going on.

A lot of this falls on Tre and the coaches. The Flames have handled the Bennett situation terribly. It looks like Tkachuk is not himself and I am going to speculate that in the players meeting, they told him to stop playing like such a shit. That is Tkachuk's game and maybe what we're seeing is a result of that and he is somewhat checked out because he feels like he cannot be himself.

Something needs to change, this has been going on for many seasons.

Most of you guys know I have crazy ideas. Ward is crazier than me. It was interesting at first last season, but this season it's super weird. Weird even for a weirdo like me.

The dynamic is also confusing as F. You keep seeing random groups of players trying to go through a wall for Ward, then seem to give up as the next wave of guys tries to go through a wall. One guy to watch, Valimaki. Dude sometimes looks like he hasn't slept for 2-3 days and his face looks aged 5-6 years. Other days he looks like he got a great night sleep.

The Bennett situation is also only a small reflection of a bigger thing. I mentioned many times in the past Gulutzan had deployed like 3 systems in his two seasons here. The entire roster languished. Only the top 6 and Gio - Hamilton were unscathed from being forced to play against their strengths. Ward is the opposite. He seemingly allows the players to play out their strengths and weaknesses on the ice. I have no idea what the convo is, but I really do not understand the effort commentary he is making.

The biggest errors I see are mismatched experiment lines, gaffes which are usually common if the system is still being absorbed (which IMO it is not even set yet this season), over thinking (true due to significantly more styles and tactics being deployed this season by far... but effort?

I don't know if he's lost the room, but I could see the players getting mad at comments like that. I really don't know what the solution is. New coach (who even would qualify based on ownership requirements) or getting a guy to anchor Ward (ie: Sutter consultant?). I have no freaking clue... and I usually have too many freaking ideas.

 

[Mobiandi]

When Gulutzan publically called out the team as gutless after a 5-0 loss to Montreal, this team looked like they put their differences aside and started playing as a team. If this team puts in another crap effort after Ward's comments, it will confirm what everyone here is thinking.

As a side note, even when Bennett was rumoured to want out last year, he still looked extremely committed to seeing this team succeed. I've never seen him this disengaged before.

 

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When Gulutzan publically called out the team as gutless after a 5-0 loss to Montreal, this team looked like they put their differences aside and started playing as a team. If this team puts in another crap effort after Ward's comments, it will confirm what everyone here is thinking.

As a side note, even when Bennett was rumoured to want out last year, he still looked extremely committed to seeing this team succeed. I've never seen him this disengaged before.

Do you like treading water with a Canadian Tuxedo and ski goggles on? Because Ward's super complex system plus insane line blender is probably on par with something like this.

I'm starting to think the players are basically drowning and burning out. No idea on whether that means they are pissed off at Ward or each other or whatever.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

If the rumoured divide in the room is true, Ward needs to be the leader and flat out say, “this is the style we are going to play. Anyone who doesn’t want to play this way, tell me and we will accommodate a trade for you at first convenience. In the meantime do yourself a favour and play your ass off”.