Flames 'New' Arena II - 'No it's yours, I insist'

[Volica]

We also deserve a nice looking power play.

That’s asking too much.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I believe that there will be a separate (obstructed view) section for smokers, and they will have to use the smokers' entrance, but no smoking will be permitted at the events.

People with at least one parent or grandparent who smokes will also be considered smokers for the purposes of this rule.

This is great. Anyone wearing a nicotine patch, backof the stadium.

 

[Tkachuky]

This is great. Anyone wearing a nicotine patch, backof the stadium.

Not even. They will be watching it on the jumbotron in PRess Level at the old saddleDome. (Like a playoff party kinda game)

 

[Yarborough]

My only hope is that the area doesn’t become a wasteland and the streets are fully built for pedestrians. I’ve had enough of “everybody bring your cars” and want to see the area around this also thrive as a neighbourhood. Bringing in retail or a farmers market to the Arena space will go light years for the viability of this project.

Not to mention the quality of the building usually goes down as it moves along. I like these preliminary designs and hope they don’t cheap out on materials.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Calgary city council invites Flames back to table to talk new arena - Sportsnet.ca

Calgary city council voted to try and re-engage the Calgary Flames in arena talks Tuesday.

The Flames broke off negotiations a year ago with president Ken King calling discussions "spectacularly unproductive."

An event centre at the heart of a larger revitalized commercial and residential district east of downtown was presented in chambers Tuesday.

"What’s attractive is we’re not talking about just developing a one-off event centre," Coun. Jeff Davison said

"We’re actually talking about how do we actually build this into a district that adds value for every single Calgarians."

"This isn’t just a hockey deal. This is a land deal and that’s what’s important to note about this one."

Calgary Sports and Entertainment supplied an email response from King, who said "We are not making any formal comment, but we are looking forward to hearing from them."

No new financial terms were presented Tuesday.

 

[Shawnofthedeadz]

At first I thought this was the new arena suddenly being announced.
$80M shape-shifting parkade approved for Calgary's East Village | CBC News

 

[Calculon]

The Olympic bid appears to be dying

Live: Committee recommends ending work on Olympic bid

 

[Ace Rimmer]

The Olympic bid appears to be dying

Live: Committee recommends ending work on Olympic bid

Yeah if there's no commitment of funding from other levels, then we're dunzo. Can't pursue it on hopes and dreams. Even with the sunk costs so far.

 

[Mobiandi]

I am ok with this

 

[InfinityIggy]

I love not wasting taxpayer money. I also love that it’s the Feds being a bunch of waffles and not guaranteeing funds that caused this.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

So it's still not dead. Still, after looking at Bidco's numbers it's time to revisit CalgaryNext.

The new facilities budget proposed by BidCo is $408 million. This includes:
1. Curling Centre
2. Multi-sport Complex (Fieldhouse)
3. Mid-size Community Arena

Renewed venues budget is $502 million. This includes renovations to Saddledome, McMahon, the Oval - many or all of which could be allocated elsewhere. Assuming 30% would be assigned to these facilities, that's about $150 million.
Total: $558 million.

Let's re-evaluate CalgaryNext

Total cost of the project, according to the City (worst case scenario) is $1,827 million.

Ignoring practically everything else on the ledger sheet, the City's detailed financial analysis of CalgaryNext indicated "additional city contributions" would be $492 - $547 million. (EDIT: I FORGOT ABOUT THE $200 MM FOR THE FIELDHOUSE) Revised # is $692 -$747 million government* contribution.

To build required new facilities and to retrofit some of the aging ones (ie: moving curling centre to the Saddledome) the CalgaryNext proposal would cost less in the worst case scenario than the BidCo plans.

It would also open the opportunity to create affordable housing in the downtown core in the west village, something that isn't going to happen anytime soon, because that pollution is staying until the three levels of government partner to clean it up.

 

[Nanuuk]

I don't trust the City to run a lemonade stand. When they torpedoed CalgaryNext they basically said our experts are smarter than your experts as a convenient excuse. All along they have targeted the East Village for development and today they are using slight of hand to further those goals in a nice convenient package. Meanwhile McMahon is ancient, the Dome is about 36 years old and doesn't do diddly for economic development. The new proposal for the east Village could work, but it is not part of the Olympic bid. Taxpayers won't be able to replace McMahon and the Dome and clean-up the creosote contamination (that also needs to be done) and fund the Olympics. And if it goes wa-ay over budget, we're on the hook. No thanks. Either CalgaryNext or the new arena proposal. No more.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Taxpayers won't be able to replace McMahon and the Dome and clean-up the creosote contamination (that also needs to be done) and fund the Olympics.

Actually, I see no reason why they couldn't do both, if they choose.

Keep in mind, the "additional city contributions" listed above would likely be shared equally with the Province and Feds.

 

[JPeeper]

The Olympic bid appears to be dying

Live: Committee recommends ending work on Olympic bid

Maybe if the bid wasn't complete and utter dogshit people wouldn't be so upset about it.

I'll admit I don't pay property tax so my say is pretty much meaningless, but I wanted the Olympics for Calgary. However, the legacy projects that the city was getting out of it were unbelievably laughable. No Greenline LRT, no new NHL arena (look I get it, you're feuding with Flames ownership right now over funding), nothing really good that actually helps the city. Yet you want to blow money on renovating the old and outdated AF Saddledome, you want to build a 5000 person arena for what exactly?? and a fieldhouse that would no doubt be terrible (even though the city needs a fieldhouse).


Just pure incompetence. Spend $10 mil+ looking into bid and all this shit and at the end of the day with all those millions spent, the best you can do was the bid that was presented. A joke. An absolute joke. A highschool class project could come up with a better bid than the monkeys involved who did.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I am a big believer that public expenditure has benefits for the economy (and economists believe this too).

That said the proposal was shortsighted and stupid. Whoever came up with it should feel bad.

 

[SKRusty]

I don't trust the City to run a lemonade stand. When they torpedoed CalgaryNext they basically said our experts are smarter than your experts as a convenient excuse. All along they have targeted the East Village for development and today they are using slight of hand to further those goals in a nice convenient package. Meanwhile McMahon is ancient, the Dome is about 36 years old and doesn't do diddly for economic development. The new proposal for the east Village could work, but it is not part of the Olympic bid. Taxpayers won't be able to replace McMahon and the Dome and clean-up the creosote contamination (that also needs to be done) and fund the Olympics. And if it goes wa-ay over budget, we're on the hook. No thanks. Either CalgaryNext or the new arena proposal. No more.

Actually, I see no reason why they couldn't do both, if they choose.

Keep in mind, the "additional city contributions" listed above would likely be shared equally with the Province and Feds.

The current city council has single-handedly turned Calgary into a welfare state dependent on Provincial and Federal handouts. The current city council has done nothing to generate jobs. THe only thing they are interested is social special interest groups and panders to them with hand-outs and other political favors. Look no further than the transit system-- They took it upon themselves to spend millions of borrowed dollars on a transit system that exceeds Calgary's need paying relatively high interest on a system that should have been expanded over 2 decades requiring less debt.

Nothing done in Calgary in the last 8 years has been done with business in mind. It has been all about providing a world class cultural experience of a city twice it's size-- all while ordinary Joes went through the most financially difficult times in the last 25 years. WHen the City should have been tightening it's purse strings it was spending billions of the tax-payers dollars on frivolous causes and projects.

Council's insistence on developing in the East Village is ridiculous in that the only major "freeway" immediately near is Memorial Drive where the West village has Crowchild, Memorial, and Bow Trail. Just from a public works perspective any idiot can see the West Village is more viable as far as access goes.

Lastly the East village has been nothing but a money pit for the City for the last 30 years with our taxes going to failed project after failed project. Now a huge business within your city says we want to work with you on something we know--- Sports-- and then the city has the audacity to tell them that they don't know what they are talking about. Ridiculous. CalgaryNext should be the only plan the city should consider and do you know why?

Calgary Sports and Entertainment have built all the sports franchises they have into successful business opportunities. Need examples: The Calgary Stampeders were perpetually on the bubble in regards to bankruptcy from the mid 1980's under Ryckman through Sig Gutsche era. In the 1990's, when I went to McMahon to watch my beloved Roughriders it was a second home. Every single game had more Rider fans than Stamp fans even in the playoffs. More often than not we could get tickets for free because the Stamps were that unsuccessful. For the last 6-7 years the stands have always been full....Yup much of it because CSEC knows how to build a thriving franchise.

The Roughnecks, the Hitmen, and the Stockton Heat are all flourishing. So in regards to facilities and locations it is doubtful the city would have 1/4 the knowledge. The only thing city council does now is where their personal interest is. THey want(NEED) CSEC in the East Village because it is such an economic disaster and the only hope for their political lives is CSES.

The only thing that the city should have to say in regards to the CalgaryNext project is how much public money should be involved... But of course Nenshi and Co have the public buffaloed into thinking it is about much more.

Glad I went back to Saskatchewan in the early 2000's because the City of Calgary has turned into nothing more than a special interest cesspool. I was back in Calgary for school last year and during that time I could not believe how bad the governance is.

 

[super6646]

Olympic bid is still alive. 8-7 vote in favour.

 

[Anglesmith]

So to recap, a committee recommended shutting down the boys, and the city recommended that they shut up.

 

[McDLT]

So to recap, a committee recommended shutting down the boys, and the city recommended that they shut up.

I watched the entire special session of council yesterday, and I think that you’re over simplifying what happened in a potentially misleading way.

A city Councillor led committee recommended halting the bid before the plebiscite. The city council voted to proceed with the plebiscite. No guarantees on what happens after that. The savings from cancelling the plebiscite would have been about $200k. Some (I counted 3) of the councillors/nenshi who voted against the motion were clearly pro-olympics. The other 4 seemed like they were more concerned about the disenfranchisement of voters. Out of the 8 councillors who voted for the motion, a couple of them were strong opponents to an Olympic bid out of principal, but the rest felt like calgarians didn’t have enough information to make an informed vote. Farkas wanted to delay the plebiscite to give calgarians more time to understand the numbers, but the city’s returning officer said that this would be almost impossible.

To recap, the city council only voted to let the public vote in a plebiscite as originally planned. This motion was brought forward because Woolley’s committee didn’t have a complete funding agreement by the deadline. The council disagreed on whether or not it was fair to ask calgarians to vote on the issue with last minute numbers (which some councillors weren’t even comfortable with). Nobody told anybody to shut up. Be thankful that you get a chance to vote.

 

[Nanuuk]

Part of the problem is that it required 10 votes to stop the plebiscite when, in my opinion, a straight majority vote should have carried the day. Some councillors were circumspect and others know full well that this very divisive issue will be resolved by the plebiscite and a predictably low voter turnout. Furthermore, as far as I know, this will not be a ward by ward vote, but a city at large vote where activists can mobilize a vote through social media. Why the distinction? Let's just day the suburbs pay a hefty property tax and may be wary of paying even more given how poorly the city centre is doing these days. The City refuses to cut services and is transferring the burden to non city centre businesses who are struggling due to other municipal and provincial policies. That burden will be moved to residences who have seen their taxes go up every year that Spendshi has been around.

 

[SKRusty]

Part of the problem is that it required 10 votes to stop the plebiscite when, in my opinion, a straight majority vote should have carried the day. Some councillors were circumspect and others know full well that this very divisive issue will be resolved by the plebiscite and a predictably low voter turnout. Furthermore, as far as I know, this will not be a ward by ward vote, but a city at large vote where activists can mobilize a vote through social media. Why the distinction? Let's just day the suburbs pay a hefty property tax and may be wary of paying even more given how poorly the city centre is doing these days. The City refuses to cut services and is transferring the burden to non city centre businesses who are struggling due to other municipal and provincial policies. That burden will be moved to residences who have seen their taxes go up every year that Spendshi has been around.

Thats the problem with Calgary city politics at the moment. All the councilors are worried about looking bad to their causes and don't even vote with any common sense. Looking at council today you wouldn't know that King Ralph's reign started at city hall. I guess no nonsense politics is a thing of the past.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Rhett Warrener

“If you don’t care about what’s happening in your city...... beat it.”

What a beauty

 

[Rubi]

I don't have a vote in this as I live in Okotoks but I wish I did because the government of Alberta and the government of Canada will both be contributing huge $$$ if this goes ahead.

 

[Rubi]

One other thing... if the city contributes all this money towards hosting the Olympics (if it goes ahead), will there still be money available to build a new NHL arena which we will eventually have to do?
Bidco says it will cost the city $390 million to host the Olympics but we all know these kind of projects ALWAYS go over budget... sometimes by quite a lot. Lets say there is a 50% budget overspend... thats almost $600 million now. We could probably build a pretty nice arena with that kind of money in the kitty

 

[Janks]

I don't have a vote in this as I live in Okotoks but I wish I did because the government of Alberta and the government of Canada will both be contributing huge $$$ if this goes ahead.

Hey! Me too! I think it’s tough when people ask for my opinion on the bid, as it’s a much harder 1:1 trace to my tax dollars than the city folk.