Post-Game Talk: Flames def. Canucks - 4-1 (Highmore)

[M2Beezy]

Quinn Hughes a +1 in a 4-1 loss

BABY STEPS

 

[Hoglander]

Highmore, scoring a goal and solidifying his protection in the ED.

 

[logan5]

Look how good and young Colorado is. We will NEVER beat them in a playoff series in the next decade. We are so so far away.

Their keys guys have a few years on the Canucks. We still have a few years of maturing to do.

Scoring	Goals	Assists	Ice Time	Point Shares
Rk	Player	Age	Pos	GP	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	EV	PP	SH	GW	EV	PP	SH	S	S%	TOI	ATOI	OPS	DPS	PS	BLK	HIT	FOW	FOL	FO%
1	Nathan MacKinnon	25	C	48	20	45	65	22	37	12	8	0	2	28	17	0	206	9.7	977	20:22	5.7	1.8	7.5	15	38	239	254	48.5
2	Mikko Rantanen	24	RW	51	30	34	64	27	34	21	9	0	7	19	15	0	174	17.2	1019	19:59	6.4	2.0	8.5	20	26	32	31	50.8
3	Gabriel Landeskog	28	LW	53	20	31	51	13	34	11	9	0	8	25	6	0	152	13.2	1061	20:01	4.1	1.5	5.6	28	79	282	216	56.6
4	Cale Makar	22	D	43	8	35	43	15	12	4	4	0	3	17	18	0	103	7.8	1044	24:17	3.8	3.0	6.8	35	49	0	0
5	Andre Burakovsky	25	LW	52	18	24	42	2	10	14	4	0	3	14	10	0	96	18.8	782	15:02	3.7	0.9	4.6	16	22	2	2	50.0
6	Samuel Girard	22	D	47	5	27	32	16	16	5	0	0	0	18	9	0	78	6.4	1092	23:14	2.3	3.2	5.5	48	30	0	0
7	Nazem Kadri	30	C	55	11	20	31	-7	34	8	3	0	3	14	6	0	169	6.5	906	16:28	1.7	0.6	2.3	18	36	388	348	52.7
8	Joonas Donskoi	28	RW	50	16	14	30	14	10	11	5	0	3	11	3	0	81	19.8	723	14:28	2.5	1.3	3.8	24	14	13	18	41.9
9	Devon Toews	26	D	52	9	21	30	27	16	7	2	0	2	17	4	0	118	7.6	1287	24:45	2.3	4.3	6.6	85	44	0	0
10	Brandon Saad	28	LW	44	15	9	24	1	12	13	2	0	1	8	1	0	68	22.1	620	14:06	2.1	0.7	2.8	10	16	27	35	43.5
11	Valeri Nichushkin	25	RW	54	10	11	21	9	4	9	0	1	4	10	1	0	97	10.3	760	14:04	1.0	1.1	2.1	28	64	1	2	33.3
12	J.T. Compher	25	LW	47	10	8	18	9	19	9	1	0	2	7	1	0	47	21.3	666	14:11	0.9	1.0	1.9	37	32	213	246	46.4
13	Tyson Jost	22	C	53	5	10	15	12	24	5	0	0	0	10	0	0	85	5.9	744	14:02	-0.1	1.2	1.1	19	45	160	178	47.3
14	Ryan Graves	25	D	53	2	13	15	16	38	2	0	0	0	13	0	0	99	2.0	1013	19:07	0.5	3.0	3.5	90	75	0	0
15	Pierre-Edouard Bellemare	35	LW	52	8	2	10	5	21	8	0	0	0	2	0	0	59	13.6	591	11:22	0.2	0.8	0.9	36	25	258	165	61.0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Zippgunn]

If Demko isn't good without a coach, was he ever really good?

Is he really all that great now?

 

[Zippgunn]

12 page GDT.

Bravo, Jim Benning.

Bravo.

Oh, and the bootlicking media that will find silver linings and rainbow ice-cream cones.

You know what I'm talking about.

I know, lots of elbow room here. Most who care have jumped ship, they can't stand the losing. Others are revelling in the truly awesome badness that this team represents, parsing every mistake and cackling with glee. They remain the hard core of posters here it seems...

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

That win for Calgary bumps them over the Sens in the standings..

 

[I am toxic]

I know, lots of elbow room here. Most who care have jumped ship, they can't stand the losing. Others are revelling in the truly awesome badness that this team represents, parsing every mistake and cackling with glee. They remain the hard core of posters here it seems...

You forgot the shilling.

There may be revelling - who knows, I don't read every post - but as long as Jim Benning is GM, we can rely on the shilling to be here.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Look how good and young Colorado is. We will NEVER beat them in a playoff series in the next decade. We are so so far away.

Agree and disagree. Left as is, I don’t think we’ll course correct to where we ought to be. This year was a wasted year, and is one year taken away from our young cores prime.

Still people forget how many bad years these Avs had. Theyve been rebuilding since the 08-09 season, whereas we’ve been rebuilding or whatever management wants call it since 2013-14. Similar to us the Avs have had a pretty miserable time making the playoffs save a couple of dead cat bounce seasons (09-10 and 2013-14) whereas we had 2014-15 and last year.

I would argue that we track well relative to the Avalanches rebuild, just that we are 4 years behind them.

Even if you compare the active roster and key prospects, I think we do have many of the same pieces to contend in the future. This is obviously for comparisons sake, not saying one player equals the other.

Mack- EP
Rantanen- Boeser (both top line wingers, Ranto is on another level).
Lando- Miller (both 2011 draftees, Miller’s production is more impressive IMO. Stick him on the top line and he’s easily over PPG).
Kadri- Horvat (Horvat is superior, value closer to Lando).
Burakowsky- none (Toffoli would have been nice)
Donskoi- Pearson
Newhook- Hoglander
Jost- Podkolzin (Jost hasn’t lived up to his potential, but has been a useful bottom 6 player. Pod likely becomes the better player).

Avs depth>>>>> Canucks expensive trash

Makar- Hughes (young 1D. No discussion on who’s better)
Toews- Schmidt (hot take. I think if these two swapped teams you’d get similar results. Avs personnel and systems is far superior to ours. As many have noted dmen take a hit with TGs system)
Girard- none (this hurts. Also the 2016 draftee Girard is superior to Hughes).
Bryram- Rathbone (obviously ones upside is much higher than the other)
EJ- Edler
Timmins- Juolevi

Grubauer- Demko (Grubauer is having a great year on his own merits, but Sakic would easily swap for Demko if given the opportunity).

Comparing our two teams, we are tracking well with a few key differences

-GM. Sakic is far superior to Benning in terms of asset management and contracts. Accumulates more picks, which results in more young roster players.

-Defence. We don’t compare. The OJ48 pick hurts, considering the other D available. In fairness the Avs d corps is insane for now and the foreseeable future. To be generally competitive we probably need one of Rathbone or OJ to pan out as a top 4 d, shrewd FA signings, PLUS draft another talented D with our 1st rounder this year.

-Pro scouting. The Avs have been able to unearth numerous gems for cheap, whereas we overpay for trash. The next GM needs to address this.

If you look at the Avs they didn’t start getting competitive until Mackinnon took the next step. Just a few years ago Mackinnon looked like he had plateaued at 60 point range, before exploding in the 2017-18 season for 97 points. I think EP40 has it in him to be over a point a game player, the next few seasons will be huge for him and the team.

Whoever the next GM is has his work cut out for him. There are some key areas to fix, and being hamstrung by terrible contracts won’t help.

I don’t think we will necessarily be the next President trophy winning team (congrats to the Avs who got that today), but I do think with the right steps taken we can be a contending team in the next few years. There isn’t one way to construct a cup winning roster, several past cup winners (Caps, Pens) were not nearly as stacked as this Avs blue line nor as top heavy.

The rebuilding phase is more or less done now, and the next GM is going to have to steer this team to the next stage.

 

[logan5]

Anyways, looking at our current roster and key players if they stay together, our best window for a cup run starts in the 23/24 season.

Pettersson age 25
Hughes age 24
Boeser age 27
Horvat age 29
Podkolzin age 22
Hoglander age 23
Rathbone age 24
JT Miller age 31
Schmidt age 32
'21 draft pick age 21

Some names will likely change, but all of those players would still be in their prime, though 31 and 32 might be declining a bit, but that would probly be our best window, and thosr ages that look a bit closer to what Colorado has.

 

[VanJack]

Wow! Demko looked seriously pissed after J.T. Miller tipped that fourth goal by him. Maybe getting hung out to dry, game after game, is starting to get to him.

I really hope next season the Canucks find a way to insulate their goalies a lot more.....getting out-shot and out-chanced game after game, is really hard on their psyche.

As coaches and players, the Canucks should be seriously upset the way they've played in front of their goalies this season.

 

[Lindgren]

Anyways, looking at our current roster and key players if they stay together, our best window for a cup run starts in the 23/24 season.

Pettersson age 25
Hughes age 24
Boeser age 27
Horvat age 29
Podkolzin age 22
Hoglander age 23
Rathbone age 24
JT Miller age 31
Schmidt age 32
'21 draft pick age 21

Some names will likely change, but all of those players would still be in their prime, though 31 and 32 might be declining a bit, but that would probly be our best window, and thosr ages that look a bit closer to what Colorado has.

Also Myers, 33, and Pearson, 31, I believe. Though one might consider them 9 million dollars of bad money at that point rather than as key players.

 

[orcatown]

Joulevi with a rough start and never really did much. However, the team needs to let him play thru this. The only way he is going to develop and gain any sort of continuity, is to keep throwing him out there. Lots of players go thru this. Not saying Joulevi is going to become an NHL defenseman but , at this point, you let him play, and let him play a lot. If his confidence is going to get shattered (as Green seems so nervous about) then he is likely no good anyhow. Players have to find their way through these learning experiences and not always be nursed through them. Also you play Rathbone and even Chatfield

Thought comment the other day that Joulevi had past Edler was daft. Edler is still, though obviously declining, a decent NHL defenseman and will be missed if he doesn't come back. Joulevi is still far from establishing his NHL credentials.

Not that matters much, but thought it was Michaelis's best effort.

Hoglander again our best player. Maybe Hamonic was out best d-man. I think Hamonic has actually put together a fairly decent season. At this point Hamonic, at much less the coin, might be preferable to Myers (who had very bad game tonight)

This is not the time to make major decisions. This is true garbage time if there ever was garbage time and assessing people like Miller, Horvat etcc at this time or shipping them out for late first round draft picks doesn't make sense.

Hopefully we can get a new GM to replace the utterly failed Benning and let him have time to gain perspective on the whole situation before making a bunch of rash moves.

 

[AppleHoneySauce]

Thought comment the other day that Joulevi had past Edler was daft. Edler is still, though obviously declining, a decent NHL defenseman and will be missed if he doesn't come back. Joulevi is still far from establishing his NHL credentials

Yeah he hasnt passed him, but it makes zero sense to bench Rathbone or Juo for him because its not like it matters. Might as well see what both got anyways. Or hell at least just play 7D and remove 1 forward from the V sea.

 

[mossey3535]

Hirsch and the PBP guy are saying that a goalie coach change could be good for the canucks. These guys have no shame lmao

Actually it might. Clark seems to have clicked better with DiPietro and Marky before him. Demko has very little technical development this year, and I would argue not too much more mental development.

He can still be an excellent goalie coach and not work with Demko, who is the goalie of the near future.

 

[4Twenty]

Agree and disagree. Left as is, I don’t think we’ll course correct to where we ought to be. This year was a wasted year, and is one year taken away from our young cores prime.

Still people forget how many bad years these Avs had. Theyve been rebuilding since the 08-09 season, whereas we’ve been rebuilding or whatever management wants call it since 2013-14. Similar to us the Avs have had a pretty miserable time making the playoffs save a couple of dead cat bounce seasons (09-10 and 2013-14) whereas we had 2014-15 and last year.

I would argue that we track well relative to the Avalanches rebuild, just that we are 4 years behind them.

Even if you compare the active roster and key prospects, I think we do have many of the same pieces to contend in the future. This is obviously for comparisons sake, not saying one player equals the other.

Mack- EP
Rantanen- Boeser (both top line wingers, Ranto is on another level).
Lando- Miller (both 2011 draftees, Miller’s production is more impressive IMO. Stick him on the top line and he’s easily over PPG).
Kadri- Horvat (Horvat is superior, value closer to Lando).
Burakowsky- none (Toffoli would have been nice)
Donskoi- Pearson
Newhook- Hoglander
Jost- Podkolzin (Jost hasn’t lived up to his potential, but has been a useful bottom 6 player. Pod likely becomes the better player).

Avs depth>>>>> Canucks expensive trash

Makar- Hughes (young 1D. No discussion on who’s better)
Toews- Schmidt (hot take. I think if these two swapped teams you’d get similar results. Avs personnel and systems is far superior to ours. As many have noted dmen take a hit with TGs system)
Girard- none (this hurts. Also the 2016 draftee Girard is superior to Hughes).
Bryram- Rathbone (obviously ones upside is much higher than the other)
EJ- Edler
Timmins- Juolevi

Grubauer- Demko (Grubauer is having a great year on his own merits, but Sakic would easily swap for Demko if given the opportunity).

Comparing our two teams, we are tracking well with a few key differences

-GM. Sakic is far superior to Benning in terms of asset management and contracts. Accumulates more picks, which results in more young roster players.

-Defence. We don’t compare. The OJ48 pick hurts, considering the other D available. In fairness the Avs d corps is insane for now and the foreseeable future. To be generally competitive we probably need one of Rathbone or OJ to pan out as a top 4 d, shrewd FA signings, PLUS draft another talented D with our 1st rounder this year.

-Pro scouting. The Avs have been able to unearth numerous gems for cheap, whereas we overpay for trash. The next GM needs to address this.

If you look at the Avs they didn’t start getting competitive until Mackinnon took the next step. Just a few years ago Mackinnon looked like he had plateaued at 60 point range, before exploding in the 2017-18 season for 97 points. I think EP40 has it in him to be over a point a game player, the next few seasons will be huge for him and the team.

Whoever the next GM is has his work cut out for him. There are some key areas to fix, and being hamstrung by terrible contracts won’t help.

I don’t think we will necessarily be the next President trophy winning team (congrats to the Avs who got that today), but I do think with the right steps taken we can be a contending team in the next few years. There isn’t one way to construct a cup winning roster, several past cup winners (Caps, Pens) were not nearly as stacked as this Avs blue line nor as top heavy.

The rebuilding phase is more or less done now, and the next GM is going to have to steer this team to the next stage.

I think the Canucks come up significantly worse in almost all of those comps.

And that’s just factoring in the players not their contracts, age, etc

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Good loss.

Miller is going to get traded to PIT for 2022 and 2023 1st round picks and I'm all for it.

a new GM probably trades Miller and Horvat for picks. They are both what , 8 years already in the league? Halfway done their careers and we won’t be competing in the next 8 so may as well. This isn’t the core we are going to a finals and lose with. I honestly don’t think a single player on this roster will be with us the next time we make an appearance in SCF. All will be retired except maybe EP40 / QH43 who will likely have signed elsewhere for big money.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Actually it might. Clark seems to have clicked better with DiPietro and Marky before him. Demko has very little technical development this year, and I would argue not too much more mental development.

He can still be an excellent goalie coach and not work with Demko, who is the goalie of the near future.

Why in the f*** would you sign a goalie to big dollars and term after only 50 nhl games played?

 

[Johnny Canucker]

I think we might win on Saturday afternoon...They'll likely play McD/Drai around 10 minutes each, also wouldnt surprise me if they give a bunch of the players the game off.

Wouldn’t it be unfortunate if ZackMack blew up 97 with a huge (clean) hit Saturday?

 

[VanJack]

Maybe it's the fact that he's finally healthy and back in the groove, but I've liked Hamonic's game. Steady on the blueline and seems to finally meshing with Quinn Hughes, although it's taken most of the season.

I'd like to see him back.....but the Canucks may not be able to afford him.

As for some of the others, I really wish the Canucks would at least try Michaelis at his natural position of center. Seems to me he needs a little more open ice to be effective, and he's stuck in a phone booth on the wing. But not sure he's back either.

And of course most everyone in the media and a majority of posters have already kicked Jimmy Vesey to the curb. But you can see the guy has some skill and looks to be a pretty effective penalty killer. Certainly brings more to the table than Roussel, at less than one third of the salary.

At under $1m a season in the bottom six, the Canucks could do worse than Vesey.

 

[Zippgunn]

You forgot the shilling.

There may be revelling - who knows, I don't read every post - but as long as Jim Benning is GM, we can rely on the shilling to be here.

Well remember that to the truly hardcore haters anybody who can find ANYTHING good about JB's tenure here is a shill...

 

[I am toxic]

Well remember that to the truly hardcore haters anybody who can find ANYTHING good about JB's tenure here is a shill...

There are no hardcore haters here.

That's just made up bull shit.

But the shilling we know has gone on here.

That's a fact.

 

[Zippgunn]

There are no hardcore haters here.

That's just made up bull shit.

But the shilling we know has gone on here.

That's a fact.

Your first sentence made me laugh out loud. So did the last one.

 

[I am toxic]

Your first sentence made me laugh out loud. So did the last one.

Well good.

It doesn't change reality though.

 

[Zippgunn]

Well good.

It doesn't change reality though.

Ah yes "facts", "reality" all that stuff. My "reality" is almost certainly different from yours...

 

[I am toxic]

Ah yes "facts", "reality" all that stuff. My "reality" is almost certainly different from yours...

I already strongly suspected it was, given your bizarre stance on Willie D, and your defense of Benning shilling, and your attacks on Canucks fans.