GDT: Flames @ Avalanche - Oct 3, 2019 - 7PM MST, SNW

[Turning Mangiapanese]

This might be tough for you to grasp, but just because a team is really bad doesn’t mean it’s tanking. If you want to see what tanking actually looks like, look at the Sabres in the McDavid draft.

Yeah, the '14-'15 Sabres is the only team in recent history you can say was 100% intentionally tanking. Last year's Senators sort of looked like that too, but they didn't actually have a 1st round pick so that probably wasn't the case.
I think not even the Oilers have been tanking since at least Yakupov, they're just incompetent.

As for the game... good to have hockey back I guess.

 

[Muffin]

LOL

How is finishing with 45 points for the season not tanking. Just 'cause you lost the lottery doesn't mean they didn't tank.

But continue to troll on the Flames board.

You guys had 3 more points that year...Was Calgary tanking too or were they so bad that they only had 3 more points than a tanking team?

 

[Dack]

You guys had 3 more points that year...Was Calgary tanking too or were they so bad that they only had 3 more points than a tanking team?

I don't really care if you're tanking or not but he's talking about 2017 you guys had 48 points. We had 94 and just slipped into the playoffs.

 

[Muffin]

I don't really care if you're tanking or not but he's talking about 2017 you guys had 48 points. We had 94 and just slipped into the playoffs.

I just find it pathetic that they tank to get MacKinnon, make the playoffs his rookie year and within 2 or 3 years they are breaking the record for worst record of all time and tanking to get Makar.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Bennett was the RW on that line almost as much as Frolik was and more often than when he was with Jankowski last year and he did very little. Not sure why everyone thinks it will change. Bennett showed the same issues he always does tonight, looks decent, then tries to do too much and gives the puck away as a result.

Uh. This seemed like a dubious statement so I looked it up.

Bennett played 198.17 minutes, across all situations with Tkachuk + Backlund.

Frolik played 414.02 minutes, across all situations with Tkachuk + Backlund.

Frolik played with them more than twice as much as Bennett did.

So no. No Bennett did not spend 'almost as much as Frolik' with them.

 

[Dack]

Did you read the entire post? He's talking about both years. But only one year is "breaking the record for worst all time". The 1st post you quoted references 45 points which is clearly about the 2017 standings finish.


2013 was a shortened season and the Avs weren't even the worst.

 

[Janks]

Uh. This seemed like a dubious statement so I looked it up.

Bennett played 198.17 minutes, across all situations with Tkachuk + Backlund.

Frolik played 414.02 minutes, across all situations with Tkachuk + Backlund.

Frolik played with them more than twice as much as Bennett did.

So no. No Bennett did not spend 'almost as much as Frolik' with them.

Cool it - you’re wrecking Luna’s hate on Bennett with your “facts”.

 

[Kranix]

Bad Game Man!
But offense was okay.

 

[DCDM]

Just some stray thoughts after sleeping on this game:

- Kylington had such a weird game, honestly. His offensive instincts are off the charts and he led a rush up the ice and looked phenomenal doing so, but that was ten seconds after he whiffed on a breakout in the defensive zone and had to bail himself out on a Nichushkin breakaway. Just a microcosm of his game as a whole lol. Will be interesting to see what version of Kylington we see more of this season.
- Hanifin looked much stronger on the puck than at any point last season.
- Monahan looked much more assertive. A healthy Monahan is such a great thing to have. Hopefully he doesn't break something again this year (unless that thing he breaks ends up being a scoring record)
- Lucic is awesome, everything this team needed honestly. Already love him more than Neal.
- Giordano looks like he hasn't missed a step. 36 going on 26.
- Rittich was good despite the 4 goals.

- Tkachuk needs to get back to basics. He was trying way too hard to look good last night.
- Frolik... yeesh. I hope this isn't a case of him mailing it in because he thought he was going to another team.
- Brodie - stop with the icings pls
- Jankowski... did you even work out over the summer bro

 

[Khrox]

- Lucic is awesome, everything this team needed honestly. Already love him more than Neal.

This. Like the fact that after that Zadorov incident, he went straight for him. That was something we haven't really had since Engelland (and even Engelland didn't do that as effectively as Looch did). Again, small sample size, but if this is what we're getting out of Lucic this year (based on 1 game+pre-season) than I am absolutely thrilled with that trade. Hell, if we get this out of him for 1 out of every 3 games, that is still a lot more than what we got out of Neal, so I can't be too mad either.

 

[Kranix]

It's one game but I'll say definitively, bottom 3 lines are yuck. Frolik is washed.

 

[Lunatik]

Cool it - you’re wrecking Luna’s hate on Bennett with your “facts”.

thinking a 3rd liner is a 3rd liner isn't "hate". Sorry that I don't drink the kool-aid and magically think that a guy that has performed like a 3rd liner for the last 4 years is suddenly going top be a 50 point player. But I see how you wouldn't catch on to that since I've only repeated it about a hundred f***ing times. Instead you'd rather bitch and whine about me, than actually read what is said.

As for me being disproved, yes, I was mistaken, I was going off memory and it was clearly wrong. But that doesn't change the fact that Bennett never produced well with Tkachuk & Backlund (7 points), and Frolik did (24 points)

In the future if you are going to f***ing run your mouth about me, at least be accurate and don't make shit up.

 

[Lunatik]

The Avs absolutely tanked for MacKinnon

 

[crackdown44]

I’m not all that worried about Frolik. Bad game but he was dynamite at the world championships last year and this is a contract year for him

Better figure it out before he gets sent to the doghouse though

 

[Kanye]

Who cares if a team tanked for anyone lol jesus

 

[DCDM]

Who cares if a team tanked for anyone lol jesus

Seriously, what a weak argument anyways lol

 

[Janks]

thinking a 3rd liner is a 3rd liner isn't "hate". Sorry that I don't drink the kool-aid and magically think that a guy that has performed like a 3rd liner for the last 4 years is suddenly going top be a 50 point player. But I see how you wouldn't catch on to that since I've only repeated it about a hundred ****ing times. Instead you'd rather ***** and whine about me, than actually read what is said.

As for me being disproved, yes, I was mistaken, I was going off memory and it was clearly wrong. But that doesn't change the fact that Bennett never produced well with Tkachuk & Backlund (7 points), and Frolik did (24 points)

In the future if you are going to ****ing run your mouth about me, at least be accurate and don't make **** up.

What shit did I make up? That you said that they played equal time together with the 2nd line and II proved you wrong? Get over yourself and grow up.

The last month you’ve been on a hate train and come to the boards and bitch and moan and call people f***ing stupid if they don’t see things your way.

Bennett should be on a scoring line - his skills don’t just disappear. When he gets REGULAR time with top players, he plays well. If he gets 2 - 3 odd shifts with line mates he doesn’t play with often, of course it won’t be as successful.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Bennett averaged 7.20 m/pg with Tkachuk + Backlund, in games where he played with them.
Frolik averaged 8.6 m/pg with Tkachuk + Backlund, in games where he played with them.

So it's not entirely unfair to suggest that Frolik had more opportunities on average with them, total time aside and thus might produce more from playing with them.

However, when Frolik played on that line they also had a higher amount of defensive zone starts by about 5%.

This also illustrates though that both Bennett and Frolik actually played away from that line a lot even during games where they were their primary line partners.

 

[Rangediddy]

I wasn't able to watch much of the game, but I did turn it on right when Kylington whiffed on his pass and had to bail himself out... which he did a fantastic job of. Thought he played Nich's stick perfectly and immediately decided to go on the offensive. He is such a great skater that I think it's absolutely worth keeping him around and working on the defensive side because that offensive potential is sky-high.

How did he look outside of that play?

 

[Mobiandi]

At this point, why wouldn't you play Bennett in the top 6? He's looked very strong recently going back towards the end of last season and in the playoffs and is clearly a big game player. Frolik's gone next season and Bennett's poised to take the next step. It's a no-brainer

I’m not all that worried about Frolik. Bad game but he was dynamite at the world championships last year and this is a contract year for him

Better figure it out before he gets sent to the doghouse though

Pretty sure he got off to a similarly awful start last season too. He'll be fine.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I wasn't able to watch much of the game, but I did turn it on right when Kylington whiffed on his pass and had to bail himself out... which he did a fantastic job of. Thought he played Nich's stick perfectly and immediately decided to go on the offensive. He is such a great skater that I think it's absolutely worth keeping him around and working on the defensive side because that offensive potential is sky-high.

How did he look outside of that play?

I think that play was a metaphor for his game, really. Made some poor choices throughout but was often able to recover because of his skillset.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

- Kylington had such a weird game, honestly. His offensive instincts are off the charts and he led a rush up the ice and looked phenomenal doing so, but that was ten seconds after he whiffed on a breakout in the defensive zone and had to bail himself out on a Nichushkin breakaway. Just a microcosm of his game as a whole lol. Will be interesting to see what version of Kylington we see more of this season.

I noticed this too. He actually had a few really good defensive plays where he used his speed and positioning quite effectively. Sadly, one of those times was when he coughed up the puck in the offensive zone himself, and there were a couple of other times where I asked WTF out loud when he was in the o-zone. I chalk it up to jitters/slight lack of confidence. Might benefit from more upper body strength so hes stronger on the puck.

 

[Lunatik]

What **** did I make up? That you said that they played equal time together with the 2nd line and II proved you wrong? Get over yourself and grow up.

The last month you’ve been on a hate train and come to the boards and ***** and moan and call people ****ing stupid if they don’t see things your way.

Bennett should be on a scoring line - his skills don’t just disappear. When he gets REGULAR time with top players, he plays well. If he gets 2 - 3 odd shifts with line mates he doesn’t play with often, of course it won’t be as successful.

Do I need to use words with less syllables? A bigger font?

I DO NOT HATE BENNETT

I am tired of people praising him, while shitting on a player of a comparable skill level. Which I have repeated hundreds of times, I don't know why it is so difficult for you to understand,

 

[Rangediddy]

Do I need to use words with less syllables? A bigger font?

I DO NOT HATE BENNETT

I am tired of people praising him, while ****ting on a player of a comparable skill level. Which I have repeated hundreds of times, I don't know why it is so difficult for you to understand,

So what if people prefer Bennett over another player? I haven't seen anything in the HF by-laws stating posters can't like one player over another.

I think Bennett has a much better skill level than Frolik for a top 6 role, he just hasn't been given a consistent shot to show it. Sure he hasn't made enough of his opportunities in the top 6 in the past but he's older and is visibly more poised to take advantage of an opportunity to displace Frolik or Backlund. You keep saying he hasn't been successful in the past so there's no reason to expect he will in the future, which I think is a silly concept for a guy like Bennett. He should be given more opportunities in the top 6 because if he does figure it out, we will be a MUUUUUUCH better team for it.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I think the most salient point is whether you think Frolik would be better there or Bennett, Frolik is gone at the end of this season. Maybe even earlier.

Bennett is probably here for awhile though. Unless a guy like Dube or Mangiapane is ready to step into the #2RW spot in the near future, it's probably not a bad idea to see if Bennett can produce there now. We don't have a lot of other options.

The other point, is that perhaps Frolik himself has taken a noticeable step back. I think everything else aside, he is ideally a 3rd line RW with strong defensive abilities at this point.

I'd rather see what I think would be a capable Ryan + Frolik line eating up some of those hard defensive matchups and allowing Tkachuk + Backlund to provide more offense by taking easier matchups.