Confirmed with Link: Flames acquire Travis Hamonic and 4th from Islanders for 1st and two 2nds

Baxterman

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Aug 27, 2017
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Given the choice between Wahlstrom or Dobson versus Hamonic I take Hamonic 100 times out of 100, that is an easy choice.

What is missed is that the Flames are much worse without him so the pick is likely even higher without the deal. But the Flames also have a huge hole on defense (without Hamonic) and are likely out of the play-offs again this year.
 
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Ace Rimmer

Stoke me a clipper.
But the Flames also have a huge hole on defense
CZxO.gif
 

Baxterman

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If you don't make the Hamonic trade our defense is:

Gio-Brodie
Hanafin-Stone
Kulak-Andersson

I don't mind Stone as a fill-in but as a full time top 4 guy with nobody else that can move up that is not ideal at all and in my view a huge hole.

And that line-up also is relying on Brodie returning to his old form because if we get Brodie of the past two years that is even a bigger issue.
 

InfinityIggy

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Jan 30, 2011
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I think our D is going to be very hard to predict this year.

So many factors:

Will Gio lose a step?
Will Brodie regain his chemistry with Gio?
Can Hanifin take the next step and be a solid top-4 guy?
Can Hamonic and Stone improve their offensive output?
Can young guys like Kulak, Andersson, Kylington hold down bottom pairing positions?
 

CraigsList

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I think our D is going to be very hard to predict this year.

So many factors:

Will Gio lose a step?
Will Brodie regain his chemistry with Gio?
Can Hanifin take the next step and be a solid top-4 guy?
Can Hamonic and Stone improve their offensive output?
Can young guys like Kulak, Andersson, Kylington hold down bottom pairing positions?

I’m gonna try and answer these on how i see it:

Giordano doesn’t lose a step (yet). I give it another two years.

I think we won’t see the same magic as we did inn 14/15, but we’ll definitely see a top pairing that can play both offense and defense. They’ll rekindle a little bit of their magic. Wouldn’t be surprised though if they did in fact become one of the best top pairings in the league again.

Hanifin might have an offer year for the first year or so because he’s going to not be as sheltered as he was in Carolina. He has a bigger role, he’ll have to step up his game to another level. We’ve got to be patient with his first year here, but at the same time he has a better defender than TVR by his side in Hamonic and also the same coach. He should be able to take off rather quickly. I think we’ll be saying, “Hamilton who?” By season 2.

I don’t expect much offensive output by Hamonic nor Stone, but Stone could definitely score some more if we ever use his bomb of a shot on the PP. He needs to hit the net though, his shot’s pretty inaccurate.

I am pretty confident that any of Kulak, Andersson and Kylington are capable of holding down the fort on the bottom pairing, especially if they have Stone flanking them. Kulak actually had a decent year last season, I don’t get the dislike some people have with him.
 
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Baxterman

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Kulak actually had a decent year last season, I don’t get the dislike some people have with him.

My only issue with Kulak is that he is bad with the puck on his stick, soft as butter, has terrible positioning and often is caught watching the puck instead of his man.

He does nothing well and a lot of things below average.
 

DFF

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A huge hole on defence? I don't think so. Even if we call up prospects, our D is as good or better than most clubs in this league.

It's not a bad defense but that sentence is faked news.

Brodie looks like garbage in the last 2 yrs. He is still living off the hype of a lucky year 2 yrs ago

Hamonic and Stone underachieved and inconsistent.

Hanifin is still developing

Kulak is waiver material

Only Gio is as good as anybody in the league.
 

tmurfin

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May 8, 2010
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Doesn't make it any better or worse. Flames gave up a pick too early, simple as that. Hopefully tre learned his lesson and is less willing to dish out picks constantly.

Not sure how you can say this when neither of those players have made ANY impact in the NHL. Let alone the impact Hamonic has on our team night in night out. Way too soon to be calling anything about this trade.
 

Nanuuk

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It's not a bad defense but that sentence is faked news.

Brodie looks like garbage in the last 2 yrs. He is still living off the hype of a lucky year 2 yrs ago

Hamonic and Stone underachieved and inconsistent.

Hanifin is still developing

Kulak is waiver material

Only Gio is as good as anybody in the league.

I disagree. Brodie hasn't been good, but also had a lot of off ice issues that he is handling now. He also was shifted to a position he hadn't played before and played under a system that nobody handled well. He'll rebound and has shown that already this preseason.

Hamonic, despite his struggles last year from playing in a new system, has been a good top 4 D in his career. Skates well, defensively sound, has grit.

Stone has played well. The issue most have is that he's overpaid and that we have young Andersson ready to take over. Has a NHL shot that he needs to use more.

All of the above (except Andersson) are 28 in their prime years. Stone is slower than Hamonic and Brodie, but generally they are a good skating trio.

Kulak is basically a 3rd year player and is still developing. His progression has been steady. He is getting stronger on the puck, skates well, and is making better decisions. His problem is that there are guys like Valimaki and Kylington nipping at his heels. Doesn't mean he isn't as good as any other 5 or 6 D.

Hanifin will be a far better player than Hamilton. Already there are signs that his give a shite meter is higher than Dougie who arguably played like a panzy while he was here, a powder puff.

Gio is the most under-rated D-man in the league. Even at 35, he's in the top quartile of defensemen.

If Treliving went out to shore up the right wing, he most certainly wouldn't have made deep changes to the D if he agreed with your position.
 

DFF

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I disagree. Brodie hasn't been good, but also had a lot of off ice issues that he is handling now. He also was shifted to a position he hadn't played before and played under a system that nobody handled well. He'll rebound and has shown that already this preseason.

Hamonic, despite his struggles last year from playing in a new system, has been a good top 4 D in his career. Skates well, defensively sound, has grit.

Stone has played well. The issue most have is that he's overpaid and that we have young Andersson ready to take over. Has a NHL shot that he needs to use more.

All of the above (except Andersson) are 28 in their prime years. Stone is slower than Hamonic and Brodie, but generally they are a good skating trio.

Kulak is basically a 3rd year player and is still developing. His progression has been steady. He is getting stronger on the puck, skates well, and is making better decisions. His problem is that there are guys like Valimaki and Kylington nipping at his heels. Doesn't mean he isn't as good as any other 5 or 6 D.

Hanifin will be a far better player than Hamilton. Already there are signs that his give a ****e meter is higher than Dougie who arguably played like a panzy while he was here, a powder puff.

Gio is the most under-rated D-man in the league. Even at 35, he's in the top quartile of defensemen.

If Treliving went out to shore up the right wing, he most certainly wouldn't have made deep changes to the D if he agreed with your position.


Everything you said is best case scenario. In other words, a dream

Reality is none of them except for Gio performed up to that level. Not that they cant but as it is they are average not one of the best in the league.
 

Baxterman

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Hanifin will be a far better player than Hamilton. Already there are signs that his give a ****e meter is higher than Dougie who arguably played like a panzy while he was here, a powder puff.

I like Hanifin but this is a huge stretch.

Far better?

I hope we are better than Boston fans in terms of having to run guys down and outright lie about them now that they left. Hamilton was not a panzy, not a powder puff not even close. He was a legit top pairing guy that was very valuable and will likely be very good to great in Carolina.

I like Hanifin, and agree with the deal, but if turns out to be close to Hamilton this year and equal to him as he ages that is a reasonable expectation for him.
 
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Nanuuk

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The only body checks Hamilton ever threw were excuse me checks. He didn't appear to like contact of any sort. Reminded me of a black lab. Friendly as all get out, but dumber than a sack of hammers. Having said that, I did appreciate his offensive skills and I do recognize that he was still getting better. I would have liked to have kept him and most likely would have traded Brodie. But Tre pulled off a great deal to fill a need elsewhere and brought in a very good young D as well. He will fill the perceived gap of losing Hamilton quite well. I believe he will make us forget about Dougie and yes, has the potential of being better.
 

Nanuuk

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Everything you said is best case scenario. In other words, a dream

Reality is none of them except for Gio performed up to that level. Not that they cant but as it is they are average not one of the best in the league.

You can build bridges your whole life, but screw one pooch, do they call you a bridge builder? Noooo. One 'bad' season doesn't make the players we have bad or any less than their peers across the league. And it doesn't mean that they'll repeat that 'bad' season.
 

Anglesmith

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Realistically, Brodie has played very well every year he has played right defence, and "coincidentally" has looked poor in his two seasons on left defence. Maybe it's as simple as it looks?

If, indeed, right-side Brodie is an elite defenceman, our defence is absolutely a good one. He's kind of the swing guy. If he's a very good #2, then everyone on defence is slotted appropriately or below where they could be. That's a recipe for success.
 
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SmellOfVictory

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Jun 3, 2011
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Given the choice between Wahlstrom or Dobson versus Hamonic I take Hamonic 100 times out of 100, that is an easy choice.

What is missed is that the Flames are much worse without him so the pick is likely even higher without the deal. But the Flames also have a huge hole on defense (without Hamonic) and are likely out of the play-offs again this year.
Disagree. At the time Hamonic was coming off one of the worst seasons in his career (preceded by another also subpar season), so there was already risk involved. Then the Flames gave up a significant amount of assets when you compare the trade to, for example:
-Hjalmarsson (Dauphin and Murphy),
-Schlemko (5th rounder); and yes Schlemko is a #4 quality dman
-TVR (2nd rounder)
-Jason Demers (McGinn)

All of those guys are within spitting distance of Hamonic's ability, if not better than him. The return given up for Hamonic would've been more reasonable if this was the Hamonic of four years ago, but it wasn't. It's absolutely an overpayment from day one.
 
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DFF

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Feb 28, 2002
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Realistically, Brodie has played very well every year he has played right defence, and "coincidentally" has looked poor in his two seasons on left defence. Maybe it's as simple as it looks?

If, indeed, right-side Brodie is an elite defenceman, our defence is absolutely a good one. He's kind of the swing guy. If he's a very good #2, then everyone on defence is slotted appropriately or below where they could be. That's a recipe for success.


Sorry but Brodie has to prove that he is elite again...until then...
 

Baxterman

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Disagree. At the time Hamonic was coming off one of the worst seasons in his career (preceded by another also subpar season), so there was already risk involved. Then the Flames gave up a significant amount of assets when you compare the trade to, for example:
-Hjalmarsson (Dauphin and Murphy),
-Schlemko (5th rounder); and yes Schlemko is a #4 quality dman
-TVR (2nd rounder)
-Jason Demers (McGinn)

All of those guys are within spitting distance of Hamonic's ability, if not better than him. The return given up for Hamonic would've been more reasonable if this was the Hamonic of four years ago, but it wasn't. It's absolutely an overpayment from day one.

I wouldn't say any of those are close to Hamonic let alone better. TVR? He is a 6th d-man at best. I know Schlemko has a cult following with Flames fans but he is not good at all. Demers is ok at best. Hjarmarsson is so overrated having played for the Hawks during their glory years.

The trade worked out about as bad as it could of with the team missing the play-offs, no fault of Hamonic, and yet it is still easily worth it value wise.
 

Baxterman

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You can build bridges your whole life, but screw one pooch, do they call you a bridge builder? Noooo. One 'bad' season doesn't make the players we have bad or any less than their peers across the league. And it doesn't mean that they'll repeat that 'bad' season.

Brodie has had more than one bad season.
 

Calculon

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1. Bad is relative. Brodie wasn't playing at the same level as he did in previous years, but still very much a top-four defencemen. To say otherwise is just sheer buffoonery and little more than petulant whining.

2. First 'bad' year was when he had to carry the sad corpse of Denis Wideman, the same guy who couldn't get an NHL contract for any amount at any level last year. The moment Stone was brought in and Wideman was scratched, suddenly Brodie was looking good again. Who could have imagined that?

Second 'bad' year (last season) was where he had some notable struggles at certain points in time but was still largely solid despite little chemistry with Hamonic. In other words, he was still a top four defenceman.

3. His two 'bad' years coincide with the thoroughly bland and uninspiring coaching of Gulutzan aka Brent Sutters protege in trying to fit round pegs in square holes. The fact is, he's better on the right side than the left. But even then, he had better chemistry with Stone than Hamonic. Gulutzan utterly failed at utilizing the riches he had defensively.

4. On paper the defense is likely top ten. Performance wise, it's been average yes, but with a new coach that hopefully isn't a moron, there's reasons to be optimistic.
 

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