Confirmed with Link: Flames acquire Travis Hamonic and 4th from Islanders for 1st and two 2nds

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
Chances are Valimaki will be the captain of a team looking to make a big playoff push. Provorov had 40 WHL playoff games under his belt before turning pro. Valimaki has... 4. Adding 12-15 more playoff games as his team's leader and first defenseman, while working without development guys and getting 25-30+ minutes a night... I don't see the harm. Pro in Europe should be a nonstarter since the minutes are not controllable. Stockton would be nice but with Kylington and co needing their minutes on PK, PP, 5v5, 3v3, it makes sense to send Valimaki down to a league where he can get the most reps in.


p.s. Kylington is not a forward playing defense. He does some things better defensively than some of our other prospects (for instance only Kulak has better gap control, and not one of our D prospects is more dominant on the PK, and he probably has the best stretch pass out of all of them) and some things worse than our other prospects (knowing when to chip/when to carry, sealing the front of the net, breaking up the cycle) but it is absurd to say he is anything other than a defense prospect who is right around where most just-turned-20 guys are.
 

Dertell

Registered User
Jul 14, 2015
2,923
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Great points Dertell, we're also always here if you need to talk.

Statistically speaking, were we a good enough possession team to be generating more shots?
Last year we were average in that regard. @MimicoHero's calculator nailed our lineup's points/82, as with most healthy teams backed by normalish goaltending.

The question now is, what'll happen from now on and how predictable will it be? Tweaking the model to fit the flames' previous usage, ~71% of our team's ES minutes should result in a ~54.4% Corsi, ~+6.8 shot differential. Not bad.

(71% = same top6 and top3 we finished last year + Hamonic + Bennett and Stajan used as 3rd and 4th liners respectively) The most predictable possession results tend to come from skaters with more minutes played, didn't change team and play forward. Hamonic sunk that expected differential the most. If he's good with us, damn.

This leaves ~29% to make a contender or mess it up. How will they fill the 3RHD and bottom 6 wings?

(and thx that's nice of you)
 

Bounces R Way

Registered User
Nov 18, 2013
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I've come around on this trade. Still would say we could of filled that position with a comparable player for cheaper but hadn't realized he still has 3 years left at that price. Glad it wasn't Alzner for dumb money. Really like the things I've heard about the player, sounds like he'll fit in nicely.

Hopefully they find someone to push Bartkowski out of the lineup so he doesn't undo all the work the top two pairs put in.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
I've come around on this trade. Still would say we could of filled that position with a comparable player for cheaper but hadn't realized he still has 3 years left at that price.

For the cost (NOT Kylington/Jankowski/Parsons/Bennett) I doubt you find a more sensible trade for a top four defenseman in his prime. That we managed to even hang on to the next tier of prospects, and then the next tier of prospects, allows us to plug holes with value contracts during this expected window.

It's true I was opposed to the Hamonic trades being proposed in the past, but the costs being thrown around at that time (Brodie, or Giordano) were simply awful value.
 

Tofveve

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
26,837
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Is Travis going to play right point on the PP? That was something that bothered me all last year. Hamilton shot endlessly into shin-pads and I just didn't think Versteeg had enough to fill that void properly (though he tried).
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
9,343
Calgary
Hamonic has a pretty underrated offensive game. He's got a pretty good canon, but I still prefer Stones bomb on the point. But Hamonic is no slouch.
 

Fig

Absolute Horse Shirt
Dec 15, 2014
12,955
8,449
Hamonic has a pretty underrated offensive game. He's got a pretty good canon, but I still prefer Stones bomb on the point. But Hamonic is no slouch.

It's fantastic that we have both cannons on our blue line. :)

I'm also curious to know (because our RHS D is set for 3 years), due to the fact we have opening on our 3rd pairing LD, whether we can recoup picks for players there who over perform due to a great partner in Stone. For instance, TSpoon playing well there, then flipped for a 2nd or equal (vs right now, I'm curious if he's even worth a 3rd). We do that for a bit until we thin the ranks of the LD and hit the point where we have picks again.

Looking at the leadership on the "bottom pairing leaders" in Stone and Hamonic (who may rotate based on injury etc.), I think we have a fantastic situation to develop the left shot dmen.
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,391
11,074
I really like the RHD for this season.
The best part is Andersson is there waiting in the wings. Stone and Hamonic won't play 82 games, so we should see what we have in Rasmus.
 

Kevin27NYI

Registered User
Aug 5, 2009
19,710
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Is Travis going to play right point on the PP? That was something that bothered me all last year. Hamilton shot endlessly into shin-pads and I just didn't think Versteeg had enough to fill that void properly (though he tried).

I made fun of Hamonic for shooting into shin pads, so probably no but he is not reluctant to shoot which is nice as well.
 

Kevin27NYI

Registered User
Aug 5, 2009
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Lol, oh no. Shooting into shin-pads pads has to be my worst pet peave.

He just can't open up space that much with moving side to side like others do, best thing he did was aim for a ricochet off the back boards for forwards to pass on.

He has put up points though, can throw some good deflectable shots on net
 

Calgareee

Registered User
Jun 29, 2015
2,051
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The nice thing is that we really don't need Hamonic to put up points. With Gio, Hamilton, Brodie and even Stone; Hamonic will have much more defensive responsibilities.

I imagine Hamonic will probably see a lot of PK time.
 

The Gnome

Registered User
May 17, 2010
4,678
740
Calgary
The nice thing is that we really don't need Hamonic to put up points. With Gio, Hamilton, Brodie and even Stone; Hamonic will have much more defensive responsibilities.

I imagine Hamonic will probably see a lot of PK time.

That's how I see it. Stone was decent on the PP last year and should get plenty of time there given his 3rd pairing role. We don't need Hamonic to put up huge points. We need him to mash Mcdavid's face into the ice and hold opponents accountable in front of our net.
 

super6646

Registered User
Apr 16, 2018
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What an oof trade looking back. Noah Dobson/Oliver Wahlstrom (I think we would've drafted Oliver as the Isles need defense) look like great prospects that we missed out on. 2019 looks deeper, but not an amazing trade overall. Still, at least we get a good top 4 dman on the cheap for 2 more years unlike what Edmonton had to deal with.
 

InfinityIggy

Zagidulin's Dad
Jan 30, 2011
36,068
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What an oof trade looking back. Noah Dobson/Oliver Wahlstrom (I think we would've drafted Oliver as the Isles need defense) look like great prospects that we missed out on. 2019 looks deeper, but not an amazing trade overall. Still, at least we get a good top 4 dman on the cheap for 2 more years unlike what Edmonton had to deal with.

We didn’t trade Oliver Wahlstrom (who will be elite) or Noah Dobson. We traded a roll of the dice as a 1st round pick.
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
16,578
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Wahlstrom isn't a part of the conversation. It was the 12th OV pick which was Noah Dobson; Wahlstrom was taken with the Islanders own pick. With the Islanders taking Wahlstrom first, there's really no way of saying they would have done things differently if they didn't have the Flames' pick.

But the more interesting comparison down the road will be Valimaki vs. Dobson.
 

super6646

Registered User
Apr 16, 2018
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We didn’t trade Oliver Wahlstrom (who will be elite) or Noah Dobson. We traded a roll of the dice as a 1st round pick.

Which turned out to be 12th overall. That's like saying Toronto didn't trade Seguin and Hamilton for Kessel, which is exactly what it is. No, this trade isn't as bad, but definitely an oof.
 

Bjornar Moxnes

Stem Rødt og Felix Unger Sörum
Oct 16, 2016
11,490
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We need a steady stay-at-home guy now, not in 4 years. I have no regrets about this trade

I still wished it was at least conditional. If it was and with what Tre acquired this summer, I like our hopes and would have considered that a huge win.

In two years we would either see:
1. Assuming we trade Neal because we have Wahlstrom now.
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm/Wahlstrom
Tkachuk-Backlund/Jankowski-Wahlstrom/Lindholm
Bennett-Jankowski/Backlund-Czarnik
Mangiapane-Dube-Ryan

Giordano-Brodie
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Hamonic

or

2. We trade Hamonic/let him walk.
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund/Jankowski-Neal
Bennett-Jankowski/Backlund-Czarnik
Mangiapane-Dube-Ryan

Giordano-Brodie
Hanifin-Andersson
Valimaki-Dobson
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,441
14,715
Victoria
It's fine either way. We win the trade in the short-term, obviously, which means there's pressure to win in that short term. But there isn't anything wrong with putting that pressure on this team at this time, IMO.
 

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