Confirmed with Link: Flames acquire Travis Hamonic and 4th from Islanders for 1st and two 2nds

[L13]

We'll get a 2nd or 3rd for Stajan at the deadline barring some massive Brouwer-effect.

I like your optimism, but looking at what more productive players like Hudler, Hanzal, etc. cost, I can't imagine Stajan bringing back a high pick.

I do hope Treliving finds a way to recoup picks, though. I'm pretty unhappy with the Lazar and Stone trades because of the resources they cost is and the prospect of going through next year's draft with even worse picks doesn't sit well with me.

Re. the Hamonic trade, Friedman was on the radio earlier today and said Treliving fought very hard to keep a prospect the Isles were interested in out of the deal. I'm willing to bet $100 it was Fox, who's a Long Island native and someone Conroy has said other teams consistently try to slip into trade conversations like they used to with Gaudreau. Darren Haynes also said on Twitter the Isles like him a lot.

I hate shedding second-round picks, but it's far preferable to losing Fox.

Edit: Hanzal actually brought back a lot, scratch that.

 

[Volica]

I like your optimism, but looking at what more productive players like Hudler, Hanzal, etc. cost, I can't imagine Stajan bringing back a high pick.

I do hope Treliving finds a way to recoup picks, though. I'm pretty unhappy with the Lazar and Stone trades because of the resources they cost is and the prospect of going through next year's draft with even worse picks doesn't sit well with me.

Re. the Hamonic trade, Friedman was on the radio earlier today and said Treliving fought very hard to keep a prospect the Isles were interested in out of the deal. I'm willing to bet $100 it was Fox, who's a Long Island native and someone Conroy has said other teams consistently try to slip into trade conversations like they used to with Gaudreau.

I hate shedding second-round picks, but it's far preferable to losing Fox.

Wait.
So the AGM and GM don't want to move Fox?

Overrated as hell by this fanbase.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

When your team isn't godawful at drafting it's easy to justify 2nd round picks being worthless.

But every year, at least 1 Hamonic caliber player will probably go in that 45-75 range and sometimes more, you just need to find them

Gostisbehere in 2012
Kucherov, Saad in 2011
Toffoli, Gudas in 2010
Tatar, Barrie in 2009
Stepan, Hamonic in 2008

You'll never get a chance to hit on a 2nd if you keep trading them away

So because each year (at best) there is a 10% chance of a player of Hamonic's caliber (or better) we shouldn't move them? I'm not sure I follow that logic.

We paid a steep price, I'm not sure anyone should be arguing otherwise. We moved a lot of "currency".

That being said, this helps us now, and we spent the currency that helps us compete at a smart time. Teams pay this kind of value at the deadline for 3 months of help. We get it for 3 years at his current cap hit.

The 2018 first hurts, especially with how much people rave about how deep the draft is. But if we get results and draft higher than 20th I'm not nearly as unhappy about that aspect of it.

 

[Dack]

Wait.
So the AGM and GM don't want to move Fox?

Overrated as hell by this fanbase.

I don't really get it either. Fox would be so much more hyped up if he were taken by literally any other fanbase, he just put up insane numbers as a freshman d man. A couple of months ago Canucks fans were arguing about whether Gaudette was worth a top 10 pick on the trade forum. He just had a big season that wasn't anywhere close to as impressive (rarity) as what Fox just did.

Also I agree that Fox is now everyone's favourite add on piece like Conroy said Gaudreau was when he was in college.

 

[seafoam]

 

[PWJunior]

Travis' biggest problem is what makes him so beloved, he's got too much heart for his own good sometimes.

Just FYI, he broke him thumb and was listed to be out 6-8 weeks... was back out there like 8 days later. The Isles had some injuries at that time so he felt like he needed to step up.

This is the type of stuff you hear about him on a routine basis. He will NEVER embarrass your club.

 

[BigRangy]

So because each year (at best) there is a 10% chance of a player of Hamonic's caliber (or better) we shouldn't move them? I'm not sure I follow that logic.

We paid a steep price, I'm not sure anyone should be arguing otherwise. We moved a lot of "currency".

That being said, this helps us now, and we spent the currency that helps us compete at a smart time. Teams pay this kind of value at the deadline for 3 months of help. We get it for 3 years at his current cap hit.

The 2018 first hurts, especially with how much people rave about how deep the draft is. But if we get results and draft higher than 20th I'm not nearly as unhappy about that aspect of it.

It's not that the Flames shouldn't trade them, it's that Flames fans shouldn't wonder where all the cheap talent to fill out the roster is when all the picks get traded every year.

Posters here like to talk about second round picks as though they're worthless, while for a lot of teams they can be very valuable because there is serious talent available.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

It's not that the Flames shouldn't trade them, it's that Flames fans shouldn't wonder where all the cheap talent to fill out the roster is when all the picks get traded every year.

Posters here like to talk about second round picks as though they're worthless, while for a lot of teams they can be very valuable because there is serious talent available.

Sure. I don't disagree.

But on the other hand, as an organization we've not really hit a home run in the 2nd round for a long time.

We have some quality prospects from the 2nd round currently in the pool, but I think we need some of them to actually become legit NHL players before people start realizing the true value.

 

[Fig]

Travis' biggest problem is what makes him so beloved, he's got too much heart for his own good sometimes.

Just FYI, he broke him thumb and was listed to be out 6-8 weeks... was back out there like 8 days later. The Isles had some injuries at that time so he felt like he needed to step up.

This is the type of stuff you hear about him on a routine basis. He will NEVER embarrass your club.

I mentioned this in the other thread as well, but our management is quite good at making sure players are not rushed back. Bennett is a good example. From the date he started wanting back into NHL action, management kept him out for another month or two to ensure the shoulder healed properly before allowing him back on the roster (just in time for playoffs actually).

Smid wanted back in but management convinced him no. Smid quietly sat on the sidelines this season and apparently will play professional hockey in Czechia this coming fall.

We have the roster players to cover for Hamonic. Hopefully he won't feel pressured to return early.


The only exception I can think of is Bouma. IMO, it's a combination of him being a little crazy and him fearing that he'll be demoted to the minors if gone for too long. This is unfortunate. Bouma is awesome when he's healthy. He just hasn't been very healthy for the last two seasons or so.

 

[Anglesmith]

It's not that the Flames shouldn't trade them, it's that Flames fans shouldn't wonder where all the cheap talent to fill out the roster is when all the picks get traded every year.

Posters here like to talk about second round picks as though they're worthless, while for a lot of teams they can be very valuable because there is serious talent available.

The thing that allows the Flames to do these deals is because they've addressed the cupboards in recent years. Our defensive depth is actually very, very good prospect-wise. We picked two defencemen in the second round just two drafts ago, a first rounder this year and add that to Kulak and Wotherspoon, and any lack of cheap talent on the backend cannot be blamed on the number of draft picks.

Goaltending is also extremely deep right now.

Forwards are a little thinner prospects-wise, but the forward group as a whole is very young, and some of them are still cheap (Tkachuk and Bennett). Janko should be a good player for us, and we have other guys we can plug in if needed in Shinkaruk and Klimchuk, with other guys coming from second rounders and later in previous drafts.

Honestly, some people are acting like the Flames have made like 3 picks per draft the last few years. That isn't the case. Since our rebuild started, I'm pretty sure we've made an above-average number of picks, so our cupboards shouldn't be any less stocked than any other teams. And at the same time, we've managed to add young talent at the NHL level without dipping into this stable of prospects, which would mean setting the pipeline back.

If the Flames end up in a situation where they have no prospects making the push, it won't be because of lack of picks; it will be because they have failed to make any of their picks count. And that doesn't seem likely.

 

[Fig]

Sure. I don't disagree.

But on the other hand, as an organization we've not really hit a home run in the 2nd round for a long time.

We have some quality prospects from the 2nd round currently in the pool, but I think we need some of them to actually become legit NHL players before people start realizing the true value.

We hit more gems in the 3rd and later rounds than our 2nds lately. It's really weird. Andersson and Kylington may change that though.

 

[Anglesmith]

Sure. I don't disagree.

But on the other hand, as an organization we've not really hit a home run in the 2nd round for a long time.

We have some quality prospects from the 2nd round currently in the pool, but I think we need some of them to actually become legit NHL players before people start realizing the true value.

Judging the value of a second-rounder based on a second-rounder who made the NHL is going to skew your perception. It's like judging the value of a seventh-round pick based on Henrik Zetterberg.

The value of a second-rounder is what the numbers tell you it is. There is a certain chance of generating an NHLer, and a smaller chance than that of generating an impact player at the NHL level. So if you can package them into an impact player at the NHL level, unless you're putting together like 5 of them, you're probably going to come out on top.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Wait.
So the AGM and GM don't want to move Fox?

Overrated as hell by this fanbase.

Wait.

Speculation is reality now?

 

[Kanye]

Honestly how is Fox overrated? If anything he's underrated. Guy is a legit blue chipper with incredible numbers in NCAA.

What a cringy fanbase we have sometimes.

 

[Lunatik]

The more time passes the more I ****ing love this trade. When we bring retros back I will get a Hamonic jersey

 

[Lunatik]

Honestly how is Fox overrated? If anything he's underrated. Guy is a legit blue chipper with incredible numbers in NCAA.

What a cringy fanbase we have sometimes.

Calling him a blue chipper is exactly why I say he's overrated. He's a good prospect, he's not even ****ing close to blue chip

 

[Kanye]

Calling him a blue chipper is exactly why I say he's overrated. He's a good prospect, he's not even ****ing close to blue chip

How isn't he?

What does he have to do to be considered a blue chipper? PPG + as a freshman in NCAA for a defenseman is pretty spectacular. Just because we didn't get him in the first round? lol.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

How isn't he?

What does he have to do to be considered a blue chipper? PPG + as a freshman in NCAA for a defenseman is pretty spectacular. Just because we didn't get him in the first round? lol.

Be able to play defense? Be more than an undersized, underweight defenseman?

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of hype, but with Blue Chip prospects generally they are considered to be a lock to make the NHL, even if just in a depth role as their floor. Fox does not have that *yet*

 

[Lunatik]

How isn't he?

What does he have to do to be considered a blue chipper? PPG + as a freshman in NCAA for a defenseman is pretty spectacular. Just because we didn't get him in the first round? lol.

Blue chipper are locks not only to be NHLers but high end NHLers. Fox has shown nothing that makes me think he could be better than Marc Andre Bergeron

 

[InfinityIggy]

If Fox wanted to be a bluechipper he should've gotten drafted higher

 

[Mr Snrub]

If Fox wanted to be a bluechipper he should've gotten drafted higher

If only he'd wanted it more. Then we might have a real talent on our hands

Fox is not a blue chipper but he's one of the best prospects in our pool. As it stands right now we have no blue chip prospects.

 

[InfinityIggy]

If only he'd wanted it more. Then we might have a real talent on our hands

Fox is not a blue chipper but he's one of the best prospects in our pool. As it stands right now we have no blue chip prospects.

I'd say he is one of the prospects that has the best chances at becoming a blue chipper.

 

[Volica]

Wait.

Speculation is reality now?

Well, considering the AGM mentioned that everyone tries throwing him into potential deals a la Gaudreau... Is is speculation exactly?

 

[Mr Snrub]

I'd say he is one of the prospects that has the best chances at becoming a blue chipper.

Oh, definitely. If he puts together another incredible season like last year and can grow his all-around game, I'd begin to consider him that calibre of prospect.

 

[L13]

Well, considering the AGM mentioned that everyone tries throwing him into potential deals a la Gaudreau... Is is speculation exactly?

To clarify, I was quoting a Conroy statement made before the Hamonic deal. I forget where I heard it, but he said it several months ago.

I was speculating, but Fox makes way too much sense. Haynes also confirmed that the Islanders 'like' Fox 'a lot' when someone asked him on Twitter, though I don't know his sources.

We don't know for sure whom they wanted, but I'd peg the chance it was Fox at over 70%.