Flames 2016 Draft Class

[Skobel24]

I'd prefer not to move Frolik. He can play any forward position (even center, although he's better on the wing). The problem with moving him is that if someone CAN'T fill the defensive minutes he does, this team is gonna be in a shit ton of trouble up front. Regarding prospects ready to make the jump, the only 3 I would even consider right now are Klimchuk, Mangiapane, and Andersson. I don't want Klimchuk to be relied on to play heavy defensive minutes just yet.

I mentioned this as a possible lineup for next year before, and I still like the idea of it.

Gaudreau - Monahan - UFA : The obvious one.
Tkachuk - Backlund - Ferland : A bit more dangerous offensively. Allows Ferland to develop his defensive game a bit as well.
Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway : Replace Hathaway with someone else if you don't think he can handle that role consistently. Either way, Benkowski needs to remain intact.

4th Line would be either:
Klimchuk - Frolik - Brouwer/Lazar
or
Klimchuk - Lazar - Frolik
Brouwer

Another option for the bottom 6 is to slot Frolik with Bennett and Jankowski, and move Hathaway to the 4th line. However, I think Frolik is a guy that could basically 'run' the 4th line, and he'd be an excellent mentor for Klimchuk. Stajan, Jagr, and Versteeg all let go. You could even bring in a different 4C, and rotate Lazar/Brouwer in/out with Klimchuk or someone else.

Above all else though, Frolik won't have anywhere near as much value as he does to this team. He is the Flames best defensive forward after Backlund, and after Frolik... there's not much right now.

 

[Skobel24]

My biggest hope is for Phillips to succeed honestly.

I have many doubts about him. He's skilled, but there are a lot of things that he needs to improve on before he should even sniff the NHL.

 

[Mobiandi]

We'll have space to graduate prospects next season. Stajan, Jagr, Versteeg, and possibly even Brouwer aren't coming back next season.

In a perfect world, Frolik would be our #3RW. Regardless, moving him would f*** up our RW depth even more. Besides, there's no one as consistently solid as Frolik on this team. He more than lives up to his salary.

And as Skobel mentioned, what would Frolik fetch in a trade, a second and a C level prospect? Let him see his contract out here

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Dube is exactly what we need

 

[Mr Snrub]

Dube is exactly what we need

Want to see him on our third line, Bennett playing LW with Backlund (assuming Bennett continues to impress) and Tkachuk on the top line.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Brouwer could and can the role of RW on the 3rd line. He had a really bad first season and he’s been fine this year. I just don’t feel comfortable with him in our top 6.

 

[FerklundCGY]

SoV, I know many won’t like this but there’s also Brouwer. Brouwer is more than capable of filling Frolik’s role and we might as well try it since were paying him the money we are. He has performed well and to my expectations this year.

I also think Mangiapagne is almost NHL ready, by next season he should be. Good teams grow their players internally and give them chances internally to succeed. I really like Frolik a lot and that’s why I think we should trade him. Look at how much better Janks has gotten since being on the big team, everyone has seen the progression from him game to game. I don’t see any reason why Mangiapagne or Klimchuk, can’t fulfill the role of 3rd line minutes next season.

It would be nice to get some assets whether they be an NHL ready forward prospect or a 1st round draft pick in next years draft. I’d also like to see us get a little more cap space and Brouwer isn’t going anywhere so I’d look to move Frolik. The prospects we have currently are just as good as the ones Chicago promotes every year (heck we have 6 playing in the WJ’s right now), so let’s give some of them a shot and if they aren’t ready plug Brouwer in that role.

I'd like some of whatever you're on

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I'd like some of whatever you're on

I’ll tell you what I’m not on, and that’s the fictional hate train that 95% of this board is riding for Brouwer.

Frolik, who plays with our top C has recorded 15pt this season while providing solid D. Brouwer has played on the 4th line, far less minutes, and with a C that is literally on his last legs in the NHL and has only gotten 6 less points.

No Brouwer isn’t the defensive player or skater that Frolik is, but Frolik doesn’t provide the physicality or presence that Brouwer does. And if our coaching staff knew how to properly utilize Brouwer on the PP, he would actually be contributing on it. It’s comical that Hitchcock and Tortz can can production from the guy, but he comes here and plays a system that doesn’t fit his style and suddenly he’s garbage, I don’t buy it and he’s been fine this season.

I’d take Frolik over Brouwer all day, but everyone on this board talks about Frolik like he’s some elite shutdown player. In actuality, he’s a good player no doubt but he’s an average top 6 winger, no more or no less. And I get he has chemistry with Backlund, but so did Lance Bouma and Joe Colborne.

 

[Lunatik]

I’ll tell you what I’m not on, and that’s the fictional hate train that 95% of this board is riding for Brouwer.

Frolik, who plays with our top C has recorded 15pt this season while providing solid D. Brouwer has played on the 4th line, far less minutes, and with a C that is literally on his last legs in the NHL and has only gotten 6 less points.

No Brouwer isn’t the defensive player or skater that Frolik is, but Frolik doesn’t provide the physicality or presence that Brouwer does. And if our coaching staff knew how to properly utilize Brouwer on the PP, he would actually be contributing on it. It’s comical that Hitchcock and Tortz can can production from the guy, but he comes here and plays a system that doesn’t fit his style and suddenly he’s garbage, I don’t buy it and he’s been fine this season.

I’d take Frolik over Brouwer all day, but everyone on this board talks about Frolik like he’s some elite shutdown player. In actuality, he’s a good player no doubt but he’s an average top 6 winger, no more or no less. And I get he has chemistry with Backlund, but so did Lance Bouma and Joe Colborne.

I think you mean Trotz, not Tortz. Adam Oates also got good production out of him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think you mean Trotz, not Tortz. Adam Oates also got good production out of him.

I did. The guy has assets to his game and he’s played fine this season. The issue has been that he’s not a great fit for our system.

 

[Baxterman]

I’ll tell you what I’m not on, and that’s the fictional hate train that 95% of this board is riding for Brouwer.

Frolik, who plays with our top C has recorded 15pt this season while providing solid D. Brouwer has played on the 4th line, far less minutes, and with a C that is literally on his last legs in the NHL and has only gotten 6 less points.

Uhm no he doesn't.

The issue I would have with Brouwer playing in a defensive role is that he skates out there like he has cement skates on so he is so easy to skate around and struggles badly against quality opposition. I think he needs to be sheltered but doesn't have the offensive skill to warrant being given offensive zone starts or tons of match-ups against lesser competition.

I guess I am happily aboard the hate train when it comes to Brouwer not because I actually hate him but because I watch him and I can't see a single thing that he brings to this team. He is below average defensively, very poor offensively, is a really bad skater and doesn't really bring much physicality or toughness anymore.

Almost every time I try to make lines one of the biggest issues I have is realizing that because of his contract I have to shoehorn Brouwer in somewhere and he doesn't really fit anywhere.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Uhm no he doesn't.

The issue I would have with Brouwer playing in a defensive role is that he skates out there like he has cement skates on so he is so easy to skate around and struggles badly against quality opposition. I think he needs to be sheltered but doesn't have the offensive skill to warrant being given offensive zone starts or tons of match-ups against lesser competition.

I guess I am happily aboard the hate train when it comes to Brouwer not because I actually hate him but because I watch him and I can't see a single thing that he brings to this team. He is below average defensively, very poor offensively, is a really bad skater and doesn't really bring much physicality or toughness anymore.

Almost every time I try to make lines one of the biggest issues I have is realizing that because of his contract I have to shoehorn Brouwer in somewhere and he doesn't really fit anywhere.

Backlund is our best all around C, he faces our oppositions best players given the coaches preference when the opportunities present themselves, so take that as you want.

Regardless, going forward I see Backlund becoming this teams 3rd line C taking the tough matchups. I don’t think Brouwer is bad defensively myself, he’s being used on the PK which is all about defending and he’s done a good job there. I also think Backlund could cover some of his deficiencies which he definitely has. And if you think Brouwer hasn’t played physical this year, I’d urge to wipe the fog off your glasses this cold weather has brought because he has and has been bloodied on several occasions mucking it up. I’ve actually liked the role he’s provided this year and Brouwer probably has one of the best shots on the team, so again I disagree that he’s a poor offensive player. I blame how he’s been utilitized on the system and the coach.

 

[Deen]

I'm just pumped Stajan is gone next year.

 

[JPeeper]

Brouwer plays against other 4th lines and still looks terrible most nights. Plays against the other teams 4th line and has 2 goals on the season.

In the games where Tkachuk hasn't played and Brouwer has moved up with Backs and Frolik he has completely shattered that line and dragged them down.

 

[Mobiandi]

The problem with the fourth line is that they don't play like a fourth line. They're tasked with emulating how the top 9 play and they're not good enough.

The fourth line is meant to buzz around and create havoc and get under a team's skin. They shouldn't focus on maintaining possession of the puck but instead just get shots on net and crash the net. Brouwer has a good shot; how many times have we seen it come off this season, 3 maybe 4 times?

 

[Baxterman]

Backlund is our best all around C, he faces our oppositions best players given the coaches preference when the opportunities present themselves, so take that as you want.

Regardless, going forward I see Backlund becoming this teams 3rd line C taking the tough matchups. I don’t think Brouwer is bad defensively myself, he’s being used on the PK which is all about defending and he’s done a good job there. I also think Backlund could cover some of his deficiencies which he definitely has. And if you think Brouwer hasn’t played physical this year, I’d urge to wipe the fog off your glasses this cold weather has brought because he has and has been bloodied on several occasions mucking it up. I’ve actually liked the role he’s provided this year and Brouwer probably has one of the best shots on the team, so again I disagree that he’s a poor offensive player. I blame how he’s been utilitized on the system and the coach.

If given the choice, whether for one game, one season or just going forward I doubt anyone other than a sub section of Flames fans takes Backlund over Monahan. Best all round seems to be a way to try and boost up a guy that isn't as good so you have to come up with terms to try and improve him. Backlind may be the best all round center, Monahan is clearly the best center.

Brouwer has not been good on the PK so we will have to disagree there. I think he has actually looked terrible in the Pk especially when paired with Stajan as neither are good enough skaters to close down lanes or get to 50/50 pucks.

Finally as for offense, he has been given a lot of chances and is at 9 points. I find it hard to argue with what the stats say, especially after a 25 point season last year. He can have the greatest shot, pass, hands, head, heart etc. in the world if it doesn't result in production it really doesn't matter much.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

If given the choice, whether for one game, one season or just going forward I doubt anyone other than a sub section of Flames fans takes Backlund over Monahan. Best all round seems to be a way to try and boost up a guy that isn't as good so you have to come up with terms to try and improve him. Backlind may be the best all round center, Monahan is clearly the best center.

Brouwer has not been good on the PK so we will have to disagree there. I think he has actually looked terrible in the Pk especially when paired with Stajan as neither are good enough skaters to close down lanes or get to 50/50 pucks.

Finally as for offense, he has been given a lot of chances and is at 9 points. I find it hard to argue with what the stats say, especially after a 25 point season last year. He can have the greatest shot, pass, hands, head, heart etc. in the world if it doesn't result in production it really doesn't matter much.

If it came down to one game I think would currently take Backlund, am I missing something?

I don’t think Brouwer should be paired with Stajan for the reasons you mentioned, they are to slow and that spells trouble because it’s to much of an negative thing. The Flames signed Brouwer because they wanted to add a RH/RW with size and to add toughness and they overpaid for it. The problem is, they failed at guessing where and who he should play with and also signed a player that’s a poor fit for the coaches system. That’s not Brouwer’s fault and also doesn’t mean he’s a bad player.

I fully agree with Mobiandi here, Brouwer has never been really allowed to do what he does best. He constantly looks out sorts because he’s not allowed to do what made him a good NHL player in the past. Let the guy go and bang down low and park himself in front of the net so he can use his shot. And if he’s not allowed to do that, management should figure out a solution to address the situation. But if you erase last season, Frolik and Brouwer have recorded similar point totals for a number of years. Yet Frolik is the one talked about as some kind of elite 2-way player and Brouwer is just trash, according to our board.

If I had my preference of course I’d move Brouwer. But it ain’t happening so I’d prefer to move the one guy who’s replaceable and could fill our cupboards a little more while freeing up cap space.

 

[Baxterman]

If it came down to one game I think would currently take Backlund, am I missing something?

I don't know if you are missing something but I do think you are nuts if you take Mikael Backlund over Monahan in any situation.

I don't think it is even close but I do know a lot of people love Backlund here and he has a cult like following he certainly doesn't deserve.

 

[Anglesmith]

I don't know if you are missing something but I do think you are nuts if you take Mikael Backlund over Monahan in any situation.

I don't think it is even close but I do know a lot of people love Backlund here and he has a cult like following he certainly doesn't deserve.

There's plenty of justification for taking Backlund right now. There is also plenty of justification for taking Monahan. They have fairly disjoint skillsets to be honest.

 

[Fig]

Gully's system relies on the puck being the fastest object on the ice and heavy acceleration from our players. That's why we look slow IMO. We were flying when we played under Hartley's system. This is like having two vehicles do a drag race, but one gets a rolling head start. Even if both are capable of the same, the one without the rolling head start will always be at a disadvantage. Our players are often flat footed waiting in position for the play to reach them. IMO if Gully tweaks the system to have the players glide into position, watch out!