Fitness and Nutrition VIII

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
I have been thinking a lot about the discussion from earlier today and I'd like your opinion.

It was suggested before that I consider Starting Strength as it is a linear progression routine to build strength. Currently I am following Stronglifts 5x5 which is the same thing.

Both programs focus on the same lifts and the progression is the same as well. SS has much lower volume, with 3x5 instead of 5x5 like I am doing now.

What is the advantage of SS over SL5x5? I am doing more volume and progressing at the same speed so why would it be better? It would certainly be easier to do 3x5 instead of 5x5 but at this weight there is no real need for that, I am not held back by doing the extra 2 sets.
 

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
87,762
53,487
Citizen of the world
I have been thinking a lot about the discussion from earlier today and I'd like your opinion.

It was suggested before that I consider Starting Strength as it is a linear progression routine to build strength. Currently I am following Stronglifts 5x5 which is the same thing.

Both programs focus on the same lifts and the progression is the same as well. SS has much lower volume, with 3x5 instead of 5x5 like I am doing now.

What is the advantage of SS over SL5x5? I am doing more volume and progressing at the same speed so why would it be better? It would certainly be easier to do 3x5 instead of 5x5 but at this weight there is no real need for that, I am not held back by doing the extra 2 sets.
It's more of the same. You're making progress right now, there's no reasons to change.

Also, you're already used to the volume of stronglifts, going down in volume rarely works, but at the same time you seem to have less than ideal recovery standards.

If you have half an hour, I'd advise you take a peek into your MRV and decide from there, my guess is that you'd score low-ish because of poor sleep/eating/stress, which would lower your maximum recoverable volume by quite a bit.

The usual range for hypertrophy is about 20 sets a week/exercise and for strength its about 16 sets a week for exercise. Just going by your description of you :
Being a beginner (More or less, lets not get caught up on terms.)
Having less than ideal sleep
Having less than ideal nutrition
Having less than ideal stress levels
Having lower class level strength (No offense, again.)
Being an average person in size and weight

I'd say you'd need to stay under 15 sets for strength and the usual 20 for hypertrophy.

Looking into periodization would be key too, if you care about that.

But, if you want to stay simple, SL or Madcow works great, until it doesn't anymore. If, and thats a big if, it stops working, then come back here and we can look at periodization, but again, to top off on Madcow/SL, you'll likely be in the 1000 range total without OHPs.

TLDR: SL puts you right in your MRV wheelhouse, SS puts you a bit under it. If you feel that SL takes a toll on your body, move to SS, but I doubt it will.
 

BehindTheTimes

Registered User
Jun 24, 2018
7,063
9,287
It's more of the same. You're making progress right now, there's no reasons to change.

Also, you're already used to the volume of stronglifts, going down in volume rarely works, but at the same time you seem to have less than ideal recovery standards.

If you have half an hour, I'd advise you take a peek into your MRV and decide from there, my guess is that you'd score low-ish because of poor sleep/eating/stress, which would lower your maximum recoverable volume by quite a bit.

The usual range for hypertrophy is about 20 sets a week/exercise and for strength its about 16 sets a week for exercise. Just going by your description of you :
Being a beginner (More or less, lets not get caught up on terms.)
Having less than ideal sleep
Having less than ideal nutrition
Having less than ideal stress levels
Having lower class level strength (No offense, again.)
Being an average person in size and weight

I'd say you'd need to stay under 15 sets for strength and the usual 20 for hypertrophy.

Looking into periodization would be key too, if you care about that.

But, if you want to stay simple, SL or Madcow works great, until it doesn't anymore. If, and thats a big if, it stops working, then come back here and we can look at periodization, but again, to top off on Madcow/SL, you'll likely be in the 1000 range total without OHPs.

TLDR: SL puts you right in your MRV wheelhouse, SS puts you a bit under it. If you feel that SL takes a toll on your body, move to SS, but I doubt it will.

For me I found 5 x5 or SL to be less effective than SS. I've done both and found that my recovery hit a wall doing 5 x 5 and it was just too much volume when Squatting 3 x per week once getting into to higher weights, at the beginning it was fine, but I believe he will plateau quicker doing SL vs 3x5. Seems to be the consensus when researching too that others experiences are similar to mine. SS is just a superior program imo.

Great post!!! Everyone is different, 5 x 5 was killing me tbh and 3 x 5 was allowing me to progress more easily, to me the extra volume for a beginner is completely unnecessary and hindering progress more than it was helping.
 
Last edited:

DramaticGloveSave

Voice of Reason
Apr 17, 2017
14,565
13,196
Or maybe Im a fan of professional and not random 20 year old
FYI I only heard of the dude from @Andrei79 in this very thread, then was impressed when he broke that Canadian junior bench record after getting called out by that dork Jason Blaha, started his program and enjoyed it, so I don’t really care. Just not sure why you randomly hate the guy especially because he’s a Montrealer...
 

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
87,762
53,487
Citizen of the world
FYI I only heard of the dude from @Andrei79 in this very thread, then was impressed when he broke that Canadian junior bench record after getting called out by that dork Jason Blaha, started his program and enjoyed it, so I don’t really care. Just not sure why you randomly hate the guy especially because he’s a Montrealer...
Theres just better information around. Ill never take advice from a guy that both lifts less than me and doesnt have any professional coaching experience.
 

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
87,762
53,487
Citizen of the world
For me I found 5 x5 or SL to be less effective than SS. I've done both and found that my recovery hit a wall doing 5 x 5 and it was just too much volume when Squatting 3 x per week once getting into to higher weights, at the beginning it was fine, but I believe he will plateau quicker doing SL vs 3x5. Seems to be the consensus when researching too that others experiences are similar to mine. SS is just a superior program imo.

Great post!!! Everyone is different, 5 x 5 was killing me tbh and 3 x 5 was allowing me to progress more easily, to me the extra volume for a beginner is completely unnecessary and hindering progress more than it was helping.
It could be a plethora of factors but its usually poor recovery... Anyway, no point in changing what works... but when you see your progress stagnating, dont wait too long IMO. I wasted valuable time because I stuck with 531 for so, so long. At the end of the day the volume was just not good enough.
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,417
15,736
Montreal
Thanks everyone for the advice. I am not having trouble yet and am not really being challenged too much at this volume so I will keep going until I start failing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DramaticGloveSave

DramaticGloveSave

Voice of Reason
Apr 17, 2017
14,565
13,196
Theres just better information around. Ill never take advice from a guy that both lifts less than me and doesnt have any professional coaching experience.
Lifts less than you? Well that is relative since you are bigger than he is, but the fact he has his name in the record books means he’s not someone who can just be dismissed.
 

BehindTheTimes

Registered User
Jun 24, 2018
7,063
9,287
Stopped the SS program and I have moved onto a different push/pull routine now that focuses still on compound movements.

I topped out at 335 squat, 205 bench, 335 deadlift, 120 OHP. I could still make progress by upping my calories, but really not what I am looking for. I feel those are great numbers coming from where I started. Now I'm trying to focus more on my diet and to fit into older clothes.
 
Last edited:

PsychoticHab

Registered User
May 26, 2012
1,492
178
Ottawa
Stopped the SS program and I have moved onto a different push/pull routine now that focuses still on compound movements.

I topped out at 335 squat, 205 bench, 335 deadlift, 120 OHP. I could still make progress by upping my calories, but really not what I am looking for. I feel those are great numbers coming from where I started. Now I'm trying to focus more on my diet and to fit into order clothes.

If you don't mind saying, what weight are you pulling those numbers at? Asking because I have similar numbers (except for squat where I'm way below you) but I got there with a year of training with only linear progression and would like to see a comparison of results with a better structured plan.
 

BehindTheTimes

Registered User
Jun 24, 2018
7,063
9,287
If you don't mind saying, what weight are you pulling those numbers at? Asking because I have similar numbers (except for squat where I'm way below you) but I got there with a year of training with only linear progression and would like to see a comparison of results with a better structured plan.
Those numbers are just my 1 rpm values, so in all likelihood you have already surpassed me. I was doing 275 3 x 5 on squat and deadlifts, 180 on bench 3 x 5 and my overhead has always been a sore spot for me, but I was doing 105 3 x 5. I feel like my squat was comfortable enough at 335 that I could have gone higher, but I just added weight until I was too zonked to add more, at the time I didn't know if I could go that high so I was adding 5 lbs per side from 300 until I couldn't add anymore. If I had have jumped to 335 from my 275 I prolly could have done more. My squat/deadlift were pretty were close in weight, so I just used my squat numbers to gauge what to put on for the deadlift. Not a very scientific approach.

When I began this program several months ago I had been going to the gym off and on with no real structure and started quite light. I was roughly 1 plate per side on bench/squat and deadlift because i had no real idea where to begin. I was aggressive with squat and deadlifts adding roughly 20 lbs each workout because the starting weight was easy for me, but only adding 10lbs for bench, then eventually bench I could only add 5 lbs and squats/deadlifts eventually went to 5 lbs per side. I was still seeing results, but I got bored.

My 3 x 5 lifts were all quite comfortable too, likely could have gone a bit higher. I had 2 workouts where I couldn't complete the 3rd set anymore, but I think sleep and diet was holding me back.
 
Last edited:

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
Is it possible to buy a cardio machine without paying a fortune? I'd like one in my apartment.
 

Mrb1p

PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Dec 10, 2011
87,762
53,487
Citizen of the world
Is it possible to buy a cardio machine without paying a fortune? I'd like one in my apartment.
Craigslist ?

Alternatively you could buy a stand to make your bicycle into a spinner, provided you do have one. It saves space too, and can be used as a stand for your bicycle.
 

DramaticGloveSave

Voice of Reason
Apr 17, 2017
14,565
13,196
Athlean-X / Jeff Cavaliere is by far the most scientific I've seen on Youtube. I'm actually tempted to buy one his programs.
Jeff is great, but he's more about athletics than pure strength, so it's a bit apples vs oranges....
 

Edgy

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
3,848
3,719
Jeff is great, but he's more about athletics than pure strength, so it's a bit apples vs oranges....
I was just talking in terms of explaining movements, muscle targeting, injury prevention, proper form, etc... I haven't seen anyone explain it in such detail.

I'm not looking to be a power lifter or iron-man strength to be honest, just want to be fit and healthy so if that falls under athletics then maybe he's the guy for me lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DramaticGloveSave

angusyoung

The life of..The Party
Aug 17, 2014
11,673
11,920
Heirendaar
Is it possible to buy a cardio machine without paying a fortune? I'd like one in my apartment.

Depends on your ability to cope with boredom. For pure cardio,you can't beat skipping rope. A side from that,some form of jumping jacks and other sort if intensive routine is fine. Just find what compels you to get up and boogie. Can implement weights as well.dumbbells etc.
 

Foppberg

Registered User
Nov 20, 2016
24,089
26,539
Summerside, PEI
Kettlebell swings supersetted with burpees is a hell of a workout too.

Don't mind me, I just started getting back into fitness and saw this pop up in the 'new posts' section.
 

Foppberg

Registered User
Nov 20, 2016
24,089
26,539
Summerside, PEI
Oh, I thought it was linked to "Hey Habs fans, guess who's been playing top four for us because we suck" Barberio :sarcasm:
:laugh: naaah.. He's been assigned to nacho duty for awhile. Especially with Makar in the lineup.

He was a good solider for us last year though.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->