OT: Fitness and Nutrition Part V

[DAChampion]

Roid rage is a myth. What some roids can do is enhance behavior. If you are an aggressive angry person, then taking some might increase this behavior. You could easily say roids are the mellow happy drugs. If someone is happy and mellow, that will enhance this behavior as well.
This idea that you take roids and you'll be going bananas on everyone is pure fiction.
That applies to some of your physical traits too, if you are prone to acne, you will probably develop some. If you are balding, this could very well accelerate the process.
Many of the side effects are also reversible.

The problems that come from the common person using roids is it's likely of very poor quality and complete lack of knowledge on how/what to use.
Precisely why I say they should legalize and control it. The masses would be way more informed and could then have access to quality drugs.

Roid rage isn't a myth, your personality is definitely affected by hormones, certainly the ones that cross the blood-brain behaviour. We know this, for example, from transsexuals who report personality changes after their sex change operations. It's widely reported that the hair loss drug propecia can induce significant personality changes, since it lowers androgens in the brain. The prolactin-inhibitor cabergoline (popular among steroid users) is associated with an increased risk of gambling addiction. A friend of mine went on a modest dose of supplementary testosterone, he was getting into more fights and was having more sex.

When you say that it "might" increase aggressive behavior, sure. Results will vary based on the individual, the dose, and the other hormones.

Separately, you wrote:
complete lack of knowledge on how/what to use.
With respect, nobody has any knowledge of how to use the poorly researched experimental drugs. Testosterone itself is reasonably well researched, but if you're taking Ostarine then you're in no man's land.

You don't have to do it in a meal. Ramadan is essentially IF.

That's true, it can be two meals. Some Muslims get up early and have a meal at 5:00am.

 

[DAChampion]

A good website with a lot of information on some of these issues is:
Peak Testosterone Men's Health Blog

They have a lot of actual doctors posting on their message boards. They discuss things like testosterone levels, hormone replacement therapy, male sexual function, nutrition, supplements, etc. Some of it is controversial but that's fine.

I don't know if the website will be around for long, their founder recently died in a car accident.

I have not spent enough time there to be sure, but HCG, Clomid, Testosterone, seem to be the more widely discussed steroid options.

 

[DAChampion]

Great post. I honeslty never gave much thought about what kind of fat you're burning. From what I read and saw in the past was that people who dropped fat overall, also saw improved health markers. So, I never gave much thought about organ fat vs. subcutaneous fat. I saw that in one of your recent posts, and I thought I'd have to give a look into that in upcoming months.

I understand that there's really no magic bullet when it comes to dropping fat. I'm in fairly good shape, so friends of mine will ask me for advice when they want to drop or add a few pounds. From my personnal experience (myself and friends), I see a clear difference between those who track their calories, follow a high protein diet and take breaks once in a while and those who go with the flow. I generally point out to a study where participants were 3 weeks in caloric deficit, one week at maintenance calories and still ended up losing as much fat as the other group. I also tell them to track their caloric intake for the week, see how much they lost week to week and adjust their baseline level. Honestly, those who do that see results quite rapidly and those results tend to last. Obviously, not everyone can do that. If you're never home and have all sorts of obstacles, I feel your pain. But I still think it's the best way to go for the average person willing to make these efforts. Also, with a systematic approach, it's not that hard to keep track of what you're eating.

Protein is a good example of a calorie not being a calorie.

Your body has two options with protein: it can be converted to lean tissue (in which case it's not part of the calories calculation), it can be converted to energy. The ratio of those two will change depending on the person. It may be that if it's converted into energy, your body will stop converting body fat into energy, or convert more of your carbs into fat. That ratio probably changes as well depending on the person.

But in practice, what seems to happen with protein is that your body converts it into glucose, and the glucose becomes extra metabolism. Here's some highlighted text from the physiology textbook by Guyton that my friend sent me.

I don't know the references for that text that he sent me, and which proteins were used.

ETA: Separate from that, protein is more satisfying and can help decrease appetite:
high-protein diet induces sustained reductions in appetite, ad libitum caloric intake, and body weight despite compensatory changes in diurnal plasma leptin and ghrelin concentrations | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic
Now you might say "a calorie is a calorie, those people lose weight because they're eating less !!" that's true, but eating less isn't the cause of their weight loss, the cause is their reduced appetite. Human beings are animals, really, not rational machines, how much you eat is a function of your appetite.

 

[Kriss E]

Roid rage isn't a myth, your personality is definitely affected by hormones, certainly the ones that cross the blood-brain behaviour. We know this, for example, from transsexuals who report personality changes after their sex change operations. It's widely reported that the hair loss drug propecia can induce significant personality changes, since it lowers androgens in the brain. The prolactin-inhibitor cabergoline (popular among steroid users) is associated with an increased risk of gambling addiction. A friend of mine went on a modest dose of supplementary testosterone, he was getting into more fights and was having more sex.

When you say that it "might" increase aggressive behavior, sure. Results will vary based on the individual, the dose, and the other hormones.

Separately, you wrote:
complete lack of knowledge on how/what to use.
With respect, nobody has any knowledge of how to use the poorly researched experimental drugs. Testosterone itself is reasonably well researched, but if you're taking Ostarine then you're in no man's land.

Well I explained what I meant by myth. If you are a happy go lucky guy, you are not going to turn into a raging animal. Your friend was already getting into fights it seems as you said ''more''.
You are adding more testo so, I mean, logic is fine here. Give more test to someone who is already aggressive, he'll become more. Give more test to men, and they'll want to have sex more.
Logical.

As for the complete lack of knowledge. I'm not talking about Ostarine. I'm talking Test, HGH, Trenbolone, Stanozolol, essentially the most popular steroids. The general population is completely uninformed about those drugs. Those guys probably never even heard of Ostarine.
But that is why I want them legalized. Shoot money into research and educating people, instead of wasting so much money on testing people, which has proven to completely fail as a deterrent.

 

[Kriss E]

Now you might say "a calorie is a calorie, those people lose weight because they're eating less !!" that's true, but eating less isn't the cause of their weight loss, the cause is their reduced appetite. Human beings are animals, really, not rational machines, how much you eat is a function of your appetite.

Strong point.

 

[DAChampion]

Well I explained what I meant by myth. If you are a happy go lucky guy, you are not going to turn into a raging animal. Your friend was already getting into fights it seems as you said ''more''.
You are adding more testo so, I mean, logic is fine here. Give more test to someone who is already aggressive, he'll become more. Give more test to men, and they'll want to have sex more.
Logical.

As for the complete lack of knowledge. I'm not talking about Ostarine. I'm talking Test, HGH, Trenbolone, Stanozolol, essentially the most popular steroids. The general population is completely uninformed about those drugs. Those guys probably never even heard of Ostarine.
But that is why I want them legalized. Shoot money into research and educating people, instead of wasting so much money on testing people, which has proven to completely fail as a deterrent.

You can argue against the anecdote of my friend (sure), but I also gave you the examples of cabergoline, propecia, and the transsexual steroid regimens, all of which are associated with personality changes. We also know that personality changes at puberty in both males and females, and around the menstrual period and menopause in women. Men with low levels of testosterone report brain fog, depression, etc.

Personality is entirely about brain structure, hormones, neurotransmitters, etc. Your brain is a physical object. If you change the chemistry then you change the object.

The idea that steroids can only affect you if "you already have problems" is honestly not very interesting, as, in all due respect, nearly everybody has some problems. How many people can you name that you know who are 100% mentally fit?

It will also depend on the dose. If a man on TRT goes from 200 ng/dl of testosterone to 600 ng/dl, he will end up in the normal range and we probably don't expect him to behave like a psycho. However, a lot of people taking supplementary testosterone boost their levels to 2,000+ ng/dl, a serum level that doesn't exist in nature among healthy men.

You can already get testosterone if you want by going to an endocrinologist. It's legal and regulated. It's the same as any prescription drug -- the doctor will make a value judgment as to whether or not you need it. There are doctors who give out pills like candy, and others who are reluctant to prescribe.

The general population is as uninformed of Stanozolol as they are about medications such retinol, Zoloft, lithium chloride, etc. that's why people go to doctors. The doctor to go to if you want steroids is the endocrinologist.
[It may be that a general practitioner can prescribe hormones without first referring you to an endocrinologist, I'm not sure.]

Ostarine itself is not that popular, but it is part of the class of selective androgen receptor modulators. Those are popular as a class that is composed of many distinct poorly-researched drugs. You can find thousands of videos on youtube and broscience articles discussing them definitively. However, the research is, to the best of my knowledge, not very strong on them. Wikipedia says that some are in clinical and pre-clinical testing:
Selective androgen receptor modulator - Wikipedia
That suggests that they may eventually be well-researched, but right now they are not well-researched.

Edited for grammar, because autocorrect changed broscience to bioscience, but broscience is the term that I actually wanted to write.

 

[DAChampion]

Speaking of testosterone, IMO people should get a full hormone panel once a year to monitor general health. It can be used to see if there's anything wrong you, and to have a baseline later on to compare to if you're not feeling well. You can take it with your standard metabolic panel (glucose, insulin, a1c, hdl cholesterol, ldl cholesterol, triglycerides, etc) in the morning, as early as possible, fasted and well-rested, following a day where you lived and ate normally.

I've had it tested several times in the past few years and my levels span the range 450-650 ng/dl. That is in the middle of the normal range, but the normal range is defined as the inter-95th percentile range of all men of my age, including both healthy and unhealthy men.

My health has fluctuated in that period, in fairness this may explain the fluctuation in numbers. However, there's an issue with testosterone that it does vary from day to day. My current GP isn't a big fan of testing it for that reason, as it's hard to discern if the variations are genuine or random. He also doesn't like testing glucose for that reason, blood glucose fluctuates even more, he relies on A1C. A1C is an approximate average of your blood glucose in the past three months.

Depending on your jurisdiction, your doctor may refuse to test for your hormones. In that case, you have the option of going to a private lab. The cost is typically ~$300. I reiterate that you should get the testing done in the morning, fasted and well-rested, following a day where you lived normally. Here's one option for US$ 225:

Male Comprehensive Hormone Panel | Blood Test | Life Extension

 

[Kriss E]

You can argue against the anecdote of my friend (sure), but I also gave you the examples of cabergoline, propecia, and the transsexual steroid regimens, all of which are associated with personality changes. We also know that personality changes at puberty in both males and females, and around the menstrual period and menopause in women. Men with low levels of testosterone report brain fog, depression, etc.

Personality is entirely about brain structure, hormones, neurotransmitters, etc. Your brain is a physical object. If you change the chemistry then you change the object.

The idea that steroids can only affect you if "you already have problems" is honestly not very interesting, as, in all due respect, nearly everybody has some problems. How many people can you name that you know who are 100% mentally fit?

It will also depend on the dose. If a man on TRT goes from 200 ng/dl of testosterone to 600 ng/dl, he will end up in the normal range and we probably don't expect him to behave like a psycho. However, a lot of people taking supplementary testosterone boost their levels to 2,000+ ng/dl, a serum level that doesn't exist in nature among healthy men.

I think you take things a little too literal. Tylenol can lead to a massive list of side effects. There is a lethal dose for caffeine as well.
My point was that the side effects are way overshot, especially roid rage. I know a very large number of people who have used steroids, only one of them told me he became more aggressive. Oh, and he was also using cocaine and drinking.

And I never said "steroids can only affect you if you already have problems"..Not sure where you got that one from.

You said it best in the last paragraph. Dosage is key, and again, comes back down to education.

You can already get testosterone if you want by going to an endocrinologist. It's legal and regulated. It's the same as any prescription drug -- the doctor will make a value judgment as to whether or not you need it. There are doctors who give out pills like candy, and others who are reluctant to prescribe.

I don't know any doctor that just prescribes Test for recreational purposes.
TRT is different.

The general population is as uninformed of Stanozolol as they are about medications such retinol, Zoloft, lithium chloride, etc. that's why people go to doctors. The doctor to go to if you want steroids is the endocrinologist.
[It may be that a general practitioner can prescribe hormones without first referring you to an endocrinologist, I'm not sure.]

Ostarine itself is not that popular, but it is part of the class of selective androgen receptor modulators. Those are popular as a class that is composed of many distinct poorly-researched drugs. You can find thousands of videos on youtube and broscience articles discussing them definitively. However, the research is, to the best of my knowledge, not very strong on them. Wikipedia says that some are in clinical and pre-clinical testing:
Selective androgen receptor modulator - Wikipedia
That suggests that they may eventually be well-researched, but right now they are not well-researched.

Edited for grammar, because autocorrect changed broscience to bioscience, but broscience is the term that I actually wanted to write.

I don't think too many doctors are well informed about Steroids either, hence me suggesting money should be pumped into research as well.

 

[Mrb1p]

Okay the base meso is pretty damn tough so far. Jeezuz. Im squatting 255 9 times today, thats ridiculous.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

What do you guys think of rucking? I've been going up the Mont-Royal with 30lbs in my back pack about 10 times now feels really great, it's like free cardio and some good work on the back, hips and upper leg.

 

[Kriss E]

What do you guys think of rucking? I've been going up the Mont-Royal with 30lbs in my back pack about 10 times now feels really great, it's like free cardio and some good work on the back, hips and upper leg.

I see no problem with that.

 

[Lshap]

I'm headed to Sri Lanka early July for some vacay, I think I might give Smolov a go after it.
I need to build my legs back up.

Does that mean you're walking there?

 

[DAChampion]

Why Canadian milk infuriates Donald Trump

As rich children slim down, poor ones are getting fatter

Two articles relevant to our recent discussions.

 

[Mrb1p]

Mk, day two of base meso... jeezuz, this is absolutely killing me. I did icepack my legs yesterday though, and now i feel like a brand new man. Im slightly less sore.

 

[Kriss E]

Arsenic, Lead Found in Popular Protein Supplements

Sounds scarier than it is. Good follow up article here:
Is Protein Powder Poisoning You? - OPEX Fitness

Interesting thing to see some of the worst ratings go to organic protein and super Vega plant based one.

 

[DAChampion]

Arsenic, Lead Found in Popular Protein Supplements

Sounds scarier than it is. Good follow up article here:
Is Protein Powder Poisoning You? - OPEX Fitness

Interesting thing to see some of the worst ratings go to organic protein and super Vega plant based one.

But vanilla protein received the highest score and it tastes awful !!!

 

[Kriss E]

But vanilla protein received the highest score and it tastes awful !!!

I have a friend in Bali who shipped 5kg of Protein to HK because they don't deliver there. Then he decided to go Vegan and asked if I would want to buy it off of him. Decided to do the friendly thing and buy his enormous bag only to then realize that it was flavorless.
He screwed me.

I'll take vanilla over that all day every day.

 

[Paddyjack]

I have a friend in Bali who shipped 5kg of Protein to HK because they don't deliver there. Then he decided to go Vegan and asked if I would want to buy it off of him. Decided to do the friendly thing and buy his enormous bag only to then realize that it was flavorless.
He screwed me.

I'll take vanilla over that all day every day.

Buy vanilla greek yogourt and mix the powder in it

 

[Mrb1p]

Buy vanilla greek yogourt and mix the powder in it

Vanilla greek yogurt is full of sugar, might as well take a few spoonful of sugars straight up

 

[Paddyjack]

Vanilla greek yogurt is full of sugar, might as well take a few spoonful of sugars straight up

Alright then, just buy some vanilla, put that in plain yogourt + whey

 

[Mrb1p]

Alright then, just buy some vanilla, put that in plain yogourt + whey

Theres only one way to make flavorless whey okay, and its to chug it down or flush it down.

 

[Paddyjack]

Theres only one way to make flavorless whey okay, and its to chug it down or flush it down.

I heard there was another way with a great recipe where you shake the flavorless whey with a rock then you throw away the whey and eat the rock.

Joking aside, the other way I was using flavorless whey before was in a soup. You warm the soup, then add the whey and mix.

 

[justafan22]

Plain Yogurt or peanut butter as the 3rd ingredient in a protein shake? Which one is better and fills you up?

 

[Mrb1p]

Plain Yogurt or peanut butter as the 3rd ingredient in a protein shake? Which one is better and fills you up?

Well, rice and Beef sure would fill you up... Peanut butter in a shake sounds absolutely disgusting.

I don't do shakes anymore, I have my backup whey for when I don't have time to cook something or grab something but thats about once a month.

 

[DAChampion]

I've had peanut butter in shakes and smoothies and it can work great. It depends on what it's eaten with of course, but it's a nice taste. Complements well with banana and cacao nibs obviously, you then need a liquid.

Peanut butter (without added sugar) or high-fat, sugar-free yogurt are both excellent options for a protein shake. I recommend rotating, as that will allow you to try more flavors, which is good for your psychological satisfaction. Yogurt can go well with frozen berries and vanilla extract/honey.