OT: Fitness and Nutrition Part V

[Spearmint Rhino]

Id rather die eating goos chorizo than tofu for 75 years.

Live in a house with 2 vegetarians, have a block of drywall filler for them for dinner and just finishing up a 10 hr low and slow brisket for myself and my 'normal' kid

When I die early the normal kid is getting all my money

 

[Kriss E]

Live in a house with 2 vegetarians, have a block of drywall filler for them for dinner and just finishing up a 10 hr low and slow brisket for myself and my 'normal' kid

When I die early the normal kid is getting all my money

Those vegetarians..are they as such because they are against killing animals?

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Those vegetarians..are they as such because they are against killing animals?

Never started that way, was more texture/taste but has passed over to everything has a face/family now

 

[ECWHSWI]

Well... I'm exaggerating a bit when I say I don't like it. I do like the feeling and the power of running, and obviously I like the results -- I'm an old guy who can outrun most people 20 years younger and has remained in really good shape. But I push myself. It's never a leisurely trot. I see another runner and I have to catch and pass them, which ultimately leaves me a disgusting, exhausted, sweaty mess. By the final mile I just want the damn thing to end.

you're probably under 50.

 

[Lshap]

you're probably under 50.

I wish...

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

From the same article you posted:
''However, caution should be exercised when interpreting the results, as other more complex social and environment factors could affect the results rather than being solely related to diet. For instance, vegans are more likely to be younger than the general population and therefore have much lower mortality rates.''

Wow...great article..
Not to mention, there is zero link for their alleged study and they don't present it well at all as we know Very little about the actual study.
Again, you have no idea what people are eating. Were the subjects eating salami and chorizo vs tofu and broccoli?
A point you repeatedly ignore. It's quite comical actually.

I posted the articlle as I thought it made the findings clearer, but here's the study: Association of Animal and Plant Protein Intake With All-Cause and Cause-Specific Mortality. - PubMed - NCBI

You're talking about a sample size of over 100,000 people. All were health professionals, no less. I think one can assume that risk factors beyond diet are fairly balanced out.

 

[Kriss E]

I posted the articlle as I thought it made the findings clearer, but here's the study: Association of Animal and Plant Protein Intake With All-Cause and Cause-Specific Mortality. - PubMed - NCBI

You're talking about a sample size of over 100,000 people. All were health professionals, no less. I think one can assume that risk factors beyond diet are fairly balanced out.

1) That would be a bad assumption. I know plenty of doctors and nurses who are not in a healthy lifestyle, at all.
2) The study started in the 80s...A time where you could still smoke a cigarette on an airplane.
3) Their information on participants's protein intakes comes from questionnaires filled up over 30 years.
4) For the 3rd time, there is no precision as to the quality of animal protein participants ate. This being the 80s, I don't think it was quite good.
5) The mean age is 49.

 

[OldCraig71]

Your already too lightweight. Put some meat on, girls love big bois.

And glasses right?

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

1) That would be a bad assumption. I know plenty of doctors and nurses who are not in a healthy lifestyle, at all.
2) The study started in the 80s...A time where you could still smoke a cigarette on an airplane.
3) Their information on participants's protein intakes comes from questionnaires filled up over 30 years.
4) For the 3rd time, there is no precision as to the quality of animal protein participants ate. This being the 80s, I don't think it was quite good.
5) The mean age is 49.

lol Your intellectual dishonesty is genuinely impressive.

What group would you suggest to have better health traits than health professionals? Also, how would one conduct a study that follows participants for 30 years without going back to the 80s?

Like seriously...

 

[Kriss E]

lol Your intellectual dishonesty is genuinely impressive.

What group would you suggest to have better health traits than health professionals? Also, how would one conduct a study that follows participants for 30 years without going back to the 80s?

Like seriously...

Reread my post and try to understand this time.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Reread my post and try to understand this time.

Again, what changes would you have made to the study? Do you really think the dummies at Harvard didn't think this through?

 

[Mrb1p]

And glasses right?

Mostly, yes.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

I don't enjoy eating as much as most people, so it was easy for me to go Vegan (only because i love animals) but still during my year as a vegan I felt great and full of energy. Now I'm trying to make gains, so I eat a lot of animal products.

I just hope lab produced meat becomes available soon.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I don't enjoy eating as much as most people, so it was easy for me to go Vegan (only because i love animals) but still during my year as a vegan I felt great and full of energy. Now I'm trying to make gains, so I eat a lot of animal products.

I just hope lab produced meat becomes available soon.

You really don't need animal products to make gains at all, as long as your protein and calorie consumption remains the same.

 

[DAChampion]

Again, what changes would you have made to the study? Do you really think the dummies at Harvard didn't think this through?

Harvard doesn't make one immune from errors -- I'm an academic so I should know. In particular, Harvard researchers have made several errors in the field of nutrition. Meanwhile, even if you want to play the "Harvard authority" card, you still lose. Dr. David Ludwig is a researcher at Harvard and is one of the leading advocates for low-carb eating.

You're looking bad because you're making the same failed or flawed points over and over again, and ignoring counterarguments and counter evidence.

We get it -- cold cuts and McDonalds happy meals are bad for you.

 

[DAChampion]

lol Your intellectual dishonesty is genuinely impressive.

What group would you suggest to have better health traits than health professionals? Also, how would one conduct a study that follows participants for 30 years without going back to the 80s?

Like seriously...

Epidemiological studies such as this one are inherently noisy due to the intrinsic presence of multiple factors and the lack of reliability of questionnaires. They should not be used to deliver ironclad conclusions, only to help construct questions that can be followed up on in more precise studies.

What are needed are metabolic ward studies involving a variety of diets, a large number of patients, and followed up over periods of at least 30 days, then comprehensive testing. Those studies are expensive relative to the available government grants, which is why we often see studies of 10 people followed up for 6 days, and other nonsense. However, they actually would not be expensive relative to a lot of pharmaceutical studies that can cost hundreds of million dollars, for drugs producing marginal effects.

Id rather die eating goos chorizo than tofu for 75 years.

Tofu can be good. How often do you go to Thai restaurants?

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

You really don't need animal products to make gains at all, as long as your protein and calorie consumption remains the same.

You'll make gains on a vegan diet, but you'll make more on animal proteins. The plant based proteins aren't as complete, easily absorbed or beneficial. People who are not training seriously could be vegan and it would be good for them.

 

[Mrb1p]

Epidemiological studies such as this one are inherently noisy due to the intrinsic presence of multiple factors and the lack of reliability of questionnaires. They should not be used to deliver ironclad conclusions, only to help construct questions that can be followed up on in more precise studies.

What are needed are metabolic ward studies involving a variety of diets, a large number of patients, and followed up over periods of at least 30 days, then comprehensive testing. Those studies are expensive relative to the available government grants, which is why we often see studies of 10 people followed up for 6 days, and other nonsense. However, they actually would not be expensive relative to a lot of pharmaceutical studies that can cost hundreds of million dollars, for drugs producing marginal effects.


Tofu can be good. How often do you go to Thai restaurants?

Yeah I know it can be good, still not as good as chorizo.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Harvard doesn't make one immune from errors -- I'm an academic so I should know. In particular, Harvard researchers have made several errors in the field of nutrition. Meanwhile, even if you want to play the "Harvard authority" card, you still lose. Dr. David Ludwig is a researcher at Harvard and is one of the leading advocates for low-carb eating.

You're looking bad because you're making the same failed or flawed points over and over again, and ignoring counterarguments and counter evidence.

We get it -- cold cuts and McDonalds happy meals are bad for you.

It seems whenever my studies are posted they are flawed, as all studies are flawed, yet when studies that support your bias are posted you agree with them.

The bottom line is this: The scientific consensus is that removing animal products from your diet will reduce your risk factor for numerous cancers, diabetes, stroke, and heart disease.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

You'll make gains on a vegan diet, but you'll make more on animal proteins. The plant based proteins aren't as complete, easily absorbed or beneficial. People who are not training seriously could be vegan and it would be good for them.

This is false. Heck even Scooby, one of the guy's mainly responsible for this misbelief, has changed his tune (skip to 2:28):



And here's the complete study: A systematic review, meta-analysis and meta-regression of the effect of protein supplementation on resistance training-induced gains in muscle mass and strength in healthy adults

 

[Kriss E]

Again, what changes would you have made to the study? Do you really think the dummies at Harvard didn't think this through?

To start.
1) List the animal protein sources.
2) List the quantities.
3) Provide the questions asked to participants and the frequency at which those were answered.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

To start.
1) List the animal protein sources.
2) List the quantities.
3) Provide the questions asked to participants and the frequency at which those were answered.

There literally has not been a larger or better study on the subject than that.

 

[Kriss E]

There literally has not been a larger or better study on the subject than that.

And yet they do not differentiate a deep fried hot dog to a grassfed organic meat...
But sure, keep crying how everyone else is biased..

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

And yet they do not differentiate a deep fried hot dog to a grassfed organic meat...
But sure, keep crying how everyone else is biased..

So unless they compose a study that is completely impossible to execute, you are going to keep your head in the sand. Gotcha.

 

[Mrb1p]

There literally has not been a larger or better study on the subject than that.

I think we can just dial it back a bit... It's fine that you're a vegan man, you're doing something great for animals. Its humane, it's noble and really I wish i had the conviction to do it.

With all that said, it still doesn't mean it's the ultimate choice in diet health wise and ecologically.

I just think that what Kriss is trying to get accross to you, is that you're views are skewed towards veganism and you're dismissing anything that goes against it, wether it's valid or not. Basically, you're bringing up anything you can bring up for the sake of your argument, and instead of making you look good, it makes you look incredibly biased. Reading a paper's abstract and conclusion isn't enough to draw your own conclusion from it, even if it's from Harvard.