OT: Fitness and Nutrition IX

[Kriss E]

He is. Hes actually a really strong presser.

But the lying to promote veganism.. like ****.

Ya there is some seriously weird stuff in there...
Hey guys...let's measure your boners. So if you eat meat before sleeping...meh...if you eat plant based....woahhhhh your boners are 6362535662% better!! Just after one meal! lollll wtf is this garbage?

The premise of the movie is right, you can absolutely be strong and compete at a high level while eating plant based, but how they go about in presenting this is just so bad. If you believed all that's said in this, it's a miracle human beings have survived all these years while eating such poisonous food.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Ya there is some seriously weird stuff in there...
Hey guys...let's measure your boners. So if you eat meat before sleeping...meh...if you eat plant based....woahhhhh your boners are 6362535662% better!! Just after one meal! lollll wtf is this garbage?

The premise of the movie is right, you can absolutely be strong and compete at a high level while eating plant based, but how they go about in presenting this is just so bad. If you believed all that's said in this, it's a miracle human beings have survived all these years while eating such poisonous food.

Indeed. It never comes out in the population data. Dairy is killing people? PeOpLe iN OkInAwA DoN'T cOnSuME dAiRy!!!1! Why do the dutch live longer, healthier lives with less heart failure despite consuming *far* more dairy than almost everyone else, then? Why does heart failure in France, a dairy loving nation, track Japan's so closely?

 

[DAChampion]

I've been critical of a lot of pro-vegan propaganda, but I think that if somebody has enough money and has gaining muscle as their only goal in life then they should be able to do splendidly on a vegan diet.

Ultra-high protein consumption of 250+ grams a day, which is not practical on a vegan diet, is only supported for n00b gains, which makes sense as it's only n00bs who can gain 12+ lbs of lean mass in a year.

I'll reiterate my thoughts on the matter.

Some benefits of vegan diets:
- Avoids processed meats;
- Most junk food ends up being off limits. People are less likely to drive to the one vegan bakery in town than they are to pick up a doughnut at Tim Hortons, which I presume contains dairy.
- It's a lifestyle choice that will force the typical person to cook more and to eat in fewer restaurants.
- Probably more environmentally friendly
- Probably decreases the net misery in the world, by bypassing animal factory farming,though I admittedly have not done the integral of the (mis)-treatment of produce workers. Note that ethical animal farming exists,but is in practice a minute fraction of animal farming.
- May decrease the odds of all of the fish in the oceans getting driven to extinction.

Those benefits are not easy to dismiss.

Some costs:
- Depending on where you live, a healthy vegan diet might be more expensive. Vegan fat sources such as nuts, seeds, avocados, etc are often overpriced. Without time, money, and knowledge, a vegan diet risks bring very high in carbs.
- A lot of people have numerous relevant allergies, for example to tree nuts, coconut, etc.
- Without time, money, and/or knowledge a vegan diet might be high in soy, which might be unhealthy for non-Asian men.
- It can be anti social in some cases. For example, I am visiting someone this week and he has a deep craving for Pho. That is a Vietnamese style of soup, that is not always available as a vegan option. It's also harder to get vegan food when travelling in most non-western countries.
- Probably harder to meet the protein requirements for rapid n00b gains.
- Meat, fish, and dairy often taste better.
- Risk of deficiency of some micronutrients such as retinol, DHA, EPA, B12 ... That is only an issue because the supplement manufacturers are often dishonest, incompetent, or both. In a sane world, a vegan would be able to pay 10 cents a day for a non-scam micronutrients supplement. This can also be worked around by eating a modest amount of animal products.

I expect that most of the above will be worked out over time.

 

[DAChampion]

Indeed. It never comes out in the population data. Dairy is killing people? PeOpLe iN OkInAwA DoN'T cOnSuME dAiRy!!!1! Why do the dutch live longer, healthier lives with less heart failure despite consuming *far* more dairy than almost everyone else, then? Why does heart failure in France, a dairy loving nation, track Japan's so closely?

Okinawa was used as a deceitful research example for a lot if dietary history. They eat a fair amount of dietary products, they just eat different ones. They use a lot of pork, lamb, and crustaceans if I recall correctly.

Historically, Japanese people did play a role in the development of nutritional epidemiology. It was realized at some point that Americans of Japanese ancestry had heart disease rates more similar to those if White Americans than to those of people in Japan. This was used as evidence that lifestyle affects the odds of heart disease. That seems obvious now, but seventy years ago a lot of people might have assumed that genetics were the dominant factor, which is a fair guess in the absence of evidence.

Note that anti-vegans have often done the same. Do a Google search. There are a lot if claims that the Eskimos were ridiculously healthy and thus eating a ton of meat is fine. Those are ridiculous claims, as ridiculous as the Okinawa ones.

Ya there is some seriously weird stuff in there...
Hey guys...let's measure your boners. So if you eat meat before sleeping...meh...if you eat plant based....woahhhhh your boners are 6362535662% better!! Just after one meal! lollll wtf is this garbage?

.

Boners are a consequence of many factors including testosterone, dopamine, and nitric oxide. Somebody might have better boners one day to the next simply due to having slept better.

For some people a single alcohol rich meal can kill their boners for a bit, though I've never noticed this, perhaps because I don't drink much.

But really people should be careful promoting bullshit. Of all medical topics, this might be the one with the most bullshit. At any pharmacy in the USA you might find dozens of different ginseng supplements that ostensibly help with boners.

 

[Kriss E]

Indeed. It never comes out in the population data. Dairy is killing people? PeOpLe iN OkInAwA DoN'T cOnSuME dAiRy!!!1! Why do the dutch live longer, healthier lives with less heart failure despite consuming *far* more dairy than almost everyone else, then? Why does heart failure in France, a dairy loving nation, track Japan's so closely?

Yes, they do themselves a big disservice by this demonization.
Their only valid argument is the environmental one.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yes, they do themselves a big disservice by this demonization.
Their only valid argument is the environmental one.

Ethical is bigger, imo.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

The world record for yoke is 700 kilos, manipulating dumb numbers to call yourself a record holder is actual BS. It makes you look bad, and it makes that documentary look bad to link itselfs to that hack.

Oberst has his flaws and is a pretty bad strongman, yet he still wrecks Baboumian in everything.

His WRs are sanctioned by Guinness so how you can not call them legitimate is beyond me.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Ya there is some seriously weird stuff in there...
Hey guys...let's measure your boners. So if you eat meat before sleeping...meh...if you eat plant based....woahhhhh your boners are 6362535662% better!! Just after one meal! lollll wtf is this garbage?

The premise of the movie is right, you can absolutely be strong and compete at a high level while eating plant based, but how they go about in presenting this is just so bad. If you believed all that's said in this, it's a miracle human beings have survived all these years while eating such poisonous food.

The guy performing that test is regarded as the top urologist on the planet. Hardly garbage. As I’ve mentioned before, the real benefit to plant based eating is better blood flow. Whether it’s boners, muscle recovery, or decreased CVD/stroke risk. The evidence is undeniable.

 

[ahmedou]

I remember quite a few people asking about fasting.
Here's a video about it:

Nice feedback.

 

[Kriss E]

The guy performing that test is regarded as the top urologist on the planet. Hardly garbage. As I’ve mentioned before, the real benefit to plant based eating is better blood flow. Whether it’s boners, muscle recovery, or decreased CVD/stroke risk. The evidence is undeniable.

Dude, why can you never admit there's a lot of bogus sensationalist stuff in these anti-meat movies/shows? Even the doctor says this is by no means a credible study.
It's so obviously sensationalism. Again, I actually agree with the premise of the movie, it's their delivery that's weak.
As I said, if animal products were so bad for us, humans would have died a long time ago.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Okinawa was used as a deceitful research example for a lot if dietary history. They eat a fair amount of dietary products, they just eat different ones. They use a lot of pork, lamb, and crustaceans if I recall correctly.

Historically, Japanese people did play a role in the development of nutritional epidemiology. It was realized at some point that Americans of Japanese ancestry had heart disease rates more similar to those if White Americans than to those of people in Japan. This was used as evidence that lifestyle affects the odds of heart disease. That seems obvious now, but seventy years ago a lot of people might have assumed that genetics were the dominant factor, which is a fair guess in the absence of evidence.

Note that anti-vegans have often done the same. Do a Google search. There are a lot if claims that the Eskimos were ridiculously healthy and thus eating a ton of meat is fine. Those are ridiculous claims, as ridiculous as the Okinawa ones.

Indeed. It's inarguable that whatever it is the average American eats is killing them, and that everyone in the west is getting fatter, and less healthy. Beyond that, though? I mean, do we have a study beyond the Australian health food store study that compares health conscious omnivores to vegetarians and vegans?

The evidence that taking a random person from the western population and feeding them a vegetarian/vegan diet will improve their health outcomes is undeniable. But there's a lot more to unpack in that statement than people realise.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Dude, why can you never admit there's a lot of bogus sensationalist stuff in these anti-meat movies/shows? Even the doctor says this is by no means a credible study.
It's so obviously sensationalism. Again, I actually agree with the premise of the movie, it's their delivery that's weak.
As I said, if animal products were so bad for us, humans would have died a long time ago.

Have you ever considered that perhaps there is something to what these docs are saying? Do you really believe the boner study was just some hoax performed by the most highly regarded urologist around?

 

[Kriss E]

Have you ever considered that perhaps there is something to what these docs are saying? Do you really believe the ***** study was just some hoax performed by the most highly regarded urologist around?

That urologist says himself his study is not credible.

And again, how bout that firefighter who talks about not having that crash after he eats anymore...? Don't you realize how incredibly stupid they look putting that in there?? You do realize what causes that crash after eating right?? Hint: It ain't eating a steak.
What about them talking about how meat-CM lost to vegan Diaz...but then leave out the fact meat-CM beat vegan-Diaz in the rematch?? How can anybody think they are being impartial, unbiased, and objective when they put things like that in their movie?

Can you not admit there's some real f***ing stupid things in there??
i'm a meat eater, there are some people swearing by the carnivore diet, I wouldn't tell anybody to go on such a diet or do it myself. I think it's stupid.
I agree with DA, there is an overconsumption of protein. Most people don't need to eat as much meat as they are and people definitely could eat more veggies/fruits.
So how come vegans are incapable of criticizing anything about their documentaries? It wouldn't make you any less of a vegan man.

How these anti-meat documentaries present their views just ruins it man. It's really unfortunate. As I said, good points are left out because of all the BS sensationalism they attach to it.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

That urologist says himself his study is not credible.

And again, how bout that firefighter who talks about not having that crash after he eats anymore...? Don't you realize how incredibly stupid they look putting that in there?? You do realize what causes that crash after eating right?? Hint: It ain't eating a steak.
What about them talking about how meat-CM lost to vegan Diaz...but then leave out the fact meat-CM beat vegan-Diaz in the rematch??

Can you not admit there's some real ****ing stupid things in there??
There are some people swearing by the carnivore diet, I wouldn't tell anybody to go on such a diet or do it myself. I think it's stupid.
I agree with DA, there is an overconsumption of protein. Most people don't need to eat as much meat as they are and people definitely could eat more veggies/fruits.

But how these anti-meat documentaries present their views just ruins it man. It's really unfortunate. As I said, good points are left out because of all the BS sensationalism they attach to it.

They’ve been making the doc for like 5 years or something. The Diaz/McGregor fight was significant because their individual diets came up leading up to the fight, and afterwards McGregor admitted his diet hurt him. The next fight was an absolute war and hardly a decisive victory at all. The firefighter was just an anecdote, not something that should be overly focused on.

 

[Kriss E]

They’ve been making the doc for like 5 years or something. The Diaz/McGregor fight was significant because their individual diets came up leading up to the fight, and afterwards McGregor admitted his diet hurt him. The next fight was an absolute war and hardly a decisive victory at all. The firefighter was just an anecdote, not something that should be overly focused on.

Dude...again...you're missing the point.
First, they can easily edit their flick.
Second, it's not just this ''anecdote''. It's the entire firefighter sequence. From listening and seeing those firefighters it's pretty freaking clear they are eating like crap. It's not meat that's making their cholesterol so high, it's their entirely bad diet. That's the point here...and that was proven with the guy mentioning the food coma he gets after his meals.
Then there's the young athletes who say they're eating Popeye's all the time...I mean, no f***ing shit they'll be healthier eating lentils, kale, with beetroot/apple/carrot juice instead of a coke.

When you use things like that to argue your point, it doesn't make you look impartial and objective. It shows an agenda.

And again, this is coming from someone who agrees with their premise. Vegans can absolutely be strong and highly competitive. Someone who agrees, meat consumption is too high. Someone who agrees that factory farming is unethical, environmentally bad, and unhealthy. Someone who agrees there should be cutbacks and more regulations. Someone who agrees people need to eat way more plant products.
I can be for all those things and still admit their talking points/arguments used more often than not are absolute garbage.

It's like vegans can never criticize anything that's anti-meat. It's silly.

 

[Mrb1p]

His WRs are sanctioned by Guinness so how you can not call them legitimate is beyond me.

Because they manipulate the record. "500 kg for 10 meters".

Literally do you think these guys can't do 500 kg for ten meters ?


4 meters for 715 kg ??? Do you even realize how stupid that claim is ?

The guy performing that test is regarded as the top urologist on the planet. Hardly garbage. As I’ve mentioned before, the real benefit to plant based eating is better blood flow. Whether it’s boners, muscle recovery, or decreased CVD/stroke risk. The evidence is undeniable.

Because its compared to people that eat McDonalds every day...

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Dude...again...you're missing the point.
First, they can easily edit their flick.
Second, it's not just this ''anecdote''. It's the entire firefighter sequence. From listening and seeing those firefighters it's pretty freaking clear they are eating like crap. It's not meat that's making their cholesterol so high, it's their entirely bad diet. That's the point here...and that was proven with the guy mentioning the food coma he gets after his meals.
Then there's the young athletes who say they're eating Popeye's all the time...I mean, no ****ing **** they'll be healthier eating lentils, kale, with beetroot/apple/carrot juice instead of a coke.

When you use things like that to argue your point, it doesn't make you look impartial and objective. It shows an agenda.

And again, this is coming from someone who agrees with their premise. Vegans can absolutely be strong and highly competitive. Someone who agrees, meat consumption is too high. Someone who agrees that factory farming is unethical, environmentally bad, and unhealthy. Someone who agrees there should be cutbacks and more regulations. Someone who agrees people need to eat way more plant products.
I can be for all those things and still admit their talking points/arguments used more often than not are absolute garbage.

It's like vegans can never criticize anything that's anti-meat. It's silly.

I think you're missing the point lol

The whole fire fighter sequence was a good sequence. Mainly because of the powerful, factual statement that heart disease is the #1 killer of fire fighters. And yea, it's because they are eating like shit. But guess what? A whole food plant based diet has been scientifically proven to reverse heart disease. That's a major point, and the purpose of that whole storyline. And seeing an entire fire hall have their numbers completely turned around due to plant based eating gave the audience a real example of that fact.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Because they manipulate the record. "500 kg for 10 meters".

Literally do you think these guys can't do 500 kg for ten meters ?


4 meters for 715 kg ??? Do you even realize how stupid that claim is ?



Because its compared to people that eat McDonalds every day...

You realize they fed them organic, grass fed meat for that study right? Clearly you haven't watched the film yet.

And if they can do it, they should and get into the record books. But clearly they haven't.

 

[Mrb1p]

You realize they fed them organic, grass fed meat for that study right? Clearly you haven't watched the film yet.

And if they can do it, they should and get into the record books. But clearly they haven't.

Im talking about actual research and not some sensationalist experiemnt made in a few seconds..

 

[Kriss E]

I think you're missing the point lol

The whole fire fighter sequence was a good sequence. Mainly because of the powerful, factual statement that heart disease is the #1 killer of fire fighters. And yea, it's because they are eating like ****. But guess what? A whole food plant based diet has been scientifically proven to reverse heart disease. That's a major point, and the purpose of that whole storyline. And seeing an entire fire hall have their numbers completely turned around due to plant based eating gave the audience a real example of that fact.

That's exactly my point. It's manipulation, which does a major disservice to their credibility. When you realize they manipulated some facts, well, everything goes out the window.
They want to show how plant food improves health...then take perfectly healthy people, put them on a vegan diet, see how that impacts their health. Don't take a 250-300lbs middle aged man who's face is completely bloated with a cholesterol level close to 300...Again, no shit his levels will drop. Having him eat meat everyday once with broccoli would also lead to a significant decrease.

Their presentation is flawed and biased, crushing the credibility of the documentary. It kills the entire premise, which is just a shame because they're right.

 

[Kriss E]

You realize they fed them organic, grass fed meat for that study right? Clearly you haven't watched the film yet.

And if they can do it, they should and get into the record books. But clearly they haven't.

Dude...for real...the boner stuff is so stupid. Eat plant base and your boner becomes 53943498 better...Lol..don't tell me you actually took that seriously. Again, even the Doc said not to take it seriously.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Im talking about actual research and not some sensationalist experiemnt made in a few seconds..

That was literally a live study performed in front of cameras byt the leader in the field, with dramatic results. What about how the study was conducted has you doubting it's findings?

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

That's exactly my point. It's manipulation, which does a major disservice to their credibility. When you realize they manipulated some facts, well, everything goes out the window.
They want to show how plant food improves health...then take perfectly healthy people, put them on a vegan diet, see how that impacts their health. Don't take a 250-300lbs middle aged man who's face is completely bloated with a cholesterol level close to 300...Again, no **** his levels will drop. Having him eat meat everyday once with broccoli would also lead to a significant decrease.

Their presentation is flawed and biased, crushing the credibility of the documentary. It kills the entire premise, which is just a shame because they're right.

The boner study is conducted on healthy college athletes... the blood study conducted on professional football players...

How are you supposed to show the diet can reverse heart disease in healthy people? lol

 

[Kriss E]

The ***** study is conducted on healthy college athletes... the blood study conducted on professional football players...

I was referring to the firefighters.

How are you supposed to show the diet can reverse heart disease in healthy people? lol

How can anybody who eats animal products be healthy when all these documentaries show just how horrible it is?

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I was referring to the firefighters.


How can anybody who eats animal products be healthy when all these documentaries show just how horrible it is?

Again, the purpose of the firefighter sequence was to show how plant based eating can reverse heart disease. How are you supposed to show such results unless you are dealing with unhealthy people with heart disease? The boner and blood studies were done on healthy athletes, and showed that they are benefited by improved blood flow as well. So what exactly is your issue?