First Round Playoff Talk Thread: Islanders vs Penguins

[PK Cronin]

You do realize you edited your post to include a paragraph that actually supports the PPP/60 metric, yes? And yet you called it flawed the previous one.

Look, Wahlstrom is not a savior nor can he (again because he doesn't handle the puck on the PP) alone solve the woes, but WITHOUT A DOUBT he is and has been one of ONLY two good power play performers this season. Everyone else has been average or below average. That is just FACTUAL....period

It's not supporting PPP/60. Can you explain how it is?

You're looking at his production when you should be looking at the team's production when he's on the ice. He's performed well, and his positive performance has not made a difference for the team overall.

I hope he can get going on another hot streak and can sustain it. I like when the PP is operating at 30%.

 

[nyscene]

Huh, the article i read had the Pens with the edge 60-40

Depends on the article.
The Player/coach/scout poll had the isles winning. Don’s model has the penguins as minor favorites. The poll of its writers have the pens as heavy favorites.

 

[RWWallpaper]

Really? I paid an obnoxious price.

I picked up two seats on the aisle in the first row of section 217 for 115 each…

 

[BrockLobster]

I picked up two seats on the aisle in the first row of section 217 for 115 each…

Section 219 for over $350

 

[Tahoeblue]

Let's drop the puck already!!! I think it was number of years ago and I think Okposo said that the players had more of a rivalry with the pens and it was the fans with the rags. I think the Isles love the idea of being an underdog and play so much better when there is the present emotion of hate and bitterness.

I can't stand Letang and remember vividly he was on his ass slashing at Lee a few years ago after he scored!! He's a punk and I hope the team rises to the occasion.

LGI

 

[nyisleslover]

Two evenly matched teams with a lot of recent playoff history, should be a long series... or it could be a sweep.

No team wins a Cup these days without all their players working as a cohesive unit, with McDavid being exhibit A attesting to that. Having said that though, I want to see Barzal make this his team and showcase his talent in a way the reshapes the narrative around him and vaults him into superstardom. Of course, I'm getting ahead of myself as it will require a lot more than just a series win against the Pens to write that story.

 

[periferal]

He really didn't make much of an improvement statistically, it's a system issue more than anything else. That's why our second unit has become the first unit, they're better at executing (still bad).

Regarding Wahlstrom...

Despite playing about 10 games less than everyone else on the PP units (and only being 11th in terms of PP time on ice) he...

• Scored 4 PP goals (3rd most on the team)
  
• Scored 6 PP assists (4th most on the team)
  
• Scored 10 PP points (#2 only behind Leddy)
• Ranked 5th in PP Corsi
• Was #1 on the team in teams of PP goals for/60.

The reality is that the Isles PP isn't great overall, but the injection of Wahlstrom's size, stickhandling, hockey sense, and most specifically shot (and total lack of fear of shooting the puck), created more chances on the PP which led to more success.

 

[periferal]

Just picked up two tickets for game four amongst my unvaccinated brothers and sisters… Prices seemed pretty fair too

Are you a season ticket holder? If not how did you get them?

 

[periferal]

Just let him fire up a fatty during pregame. The creativity will shine through.

You think Nelson needs a joint to play better?!?! I'd argue his mom smoked throughout her pregnancy with him.

If anything before each game he needs a jolt of "Spud powder."

 

[PK Cronin]

Regarding Wahlstrom...

Despite playing about 10 games less than everyone else on the PP units (and only being 11th in terms of PP time on ice) he...

• Scored 4 PP goals (3rd most on the team)
  
• Scored 6 PP assists (4th most on the team)
  
• Scored 10 PP points (#2 only behind Leddy)
• Ranked 5th in PP Corsi
• Was #1 on the team in teams of PP goals for/60.

The reality is that the Isles PP isn't great overall, but the injection of Wahlstrom's size, stickhandling, hockey sense, and most specifically shot (and total lack of fear of shooting the puck), created more chances on the PP which led to more success.

Except it didn't. You, and others, are viewing increased shots/chances as increased success. It isn't.

 

[JKP]

Enough of all this bullshit, let’s just go put the boots to these f***ers tomorrow and not take our foot of the gas for the next week!

 

[dlawong]

Big body in front helps screen, rebound, or scoring dirty goal. Isles PP need that element to work if they want more goals on PP. Someone has to do that job. Lots of goals are scored that way, deflection, tips, rebound or just interfering with the goalies' tracking or vision. The bigger the body, the better screen.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Depends on the article.
The Player/coach/scout poll had the isles winning. Don’s model has the penguins as minor favorites. The poll of its writers have the pens as heavy favorites.

Right so not even close to unanimous.

 

[RWWallpaper]

Are you a season ticket holder? If not how did you get them?

yes indeed… I was given a presale window on Friday.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

Except it didn't. You, and others, are viewing increased shots/chances as increased success. It isn't.

No, we are not ONLY viewing increased shots and chances as increased success- but using actual DATA to support that it is and has been more successful with him on it. Not only is that easily viewable simply watching the games but the STATS suggest it is.

You keep ignoring the INDIVIDUAL STATS (Corsi, PPP/60, etc) as barometers and instead use TEAM success with him on the PP (completely ignoring how many minutes he got, whether the puck even made it into the zone, etc) as the barometer; which is not only confusing and wrong but simple-minded at best.

Wahlstrom was barely on the PP in the month of January and February. As a matter of fact, of the 144 PPO, based on game logs; there were 51 power play opportunities where he wasn't even involved in them at all. The Islanders were 9 for 51 in those such power plays where he wasnt involved (17.6%). So if you subtract that, we know Wahlstrom himself was involved with the other 93 and we were successful on 18 of those (19.4%).

Now one could be simple minded and simply say there wasn't much difference between when Wahlstrom was a member of the PP (19.4%) and when he wasn't (17.6%) but that wouldn't tell the whole story.

Of the remaining 93 we know he was on the ice for; we also know he was on the ice when we scored on the PP in ELEVEN of the 18 remining goals. That is 61% of all power play goals that were scored that he participated in. That alone is the ONLY fair barometer to justify how important he is to the PP. Considering his minutes were sixth among forwards during those 93 power plays (Barzal, Nelson, Eberle and Baiely over 2 minutes) and Wahlstrom sandwiched between Beauvillier and Pageau in the 1:45 to 1:55 range; then that speaks volumes.

When you consider the THREE biggest problems of the power play also being entry, puck movement and shots on goal (the obvious fourth being replacing Lee's presence close to the net) and fairly consider that Wahlstrom's job is not entry or puck handling and he is to set up his slapshot which also eliminates him being the Lee replacement, then that also seals the point. Couple that with his willingness to shoot (and his slap being the best on the team) and that is where it leaves you...

Savior no, but clearly we are night and day different with him on it...

 

[PK Cronin]

No, we are not ONLY viewing increased shots and chances as increased success- but using actual DATA to support that it is and has been more successful with him on it. Not only is that easily viewable simply watching the games but the STATS suggest it is.

You keep ignoring the INDIVIDUAL STATS (Corsi, PPP/60, etc) as barometers and instead use TEAM success with him on the PP (completely ignoring how many minutes he got, whether the puck even made it into the zone, etc) as the barometer; which is not only confusing and wrong but simple-minded at best.

Wahlstrom was barely on the PP in the month of January and February. As a matter of fact, of the 144 PPO, based on game logs; there were 51 power play opportunities where he wasn't even involved in them at all. The Islanders were 9 for 51 in those such power plays where he wasnt involved (17.6%). So if you subtract that, we know Wahlstrom himself was involved with the other 93 and we were successful on 18 of those (19.4%).

Now one could be simple minded and simply say there wasn't much difference between when Wahlstrom was a member of the PP (19.4%) and when he wasn't (17.6%) but that wouldn't tell the whole story.

Of the remaining 93 we know he was on the ice for; we also know he was on the ice when we scored on the PP in ELEVEN of the 18 remining goals. That is 61% of all power play goals that were scored that he participated in. That alone is the ONLY fair barometer to justify how important he is to the PP. Considering his minutes were sixth among forwards during those 93 power plays (Barzal, Nelson, Eberle and Baiely over 2 minutes) and Wahlstrom sandwiched between Beauvillier and Pageau in the 1:45 to 1:55 range; then that speaks volumes.

When you consider the THREE biggest problems of the power play also being entry, puck movement and shots on goal (the obvious fourth being replacing Lee's presence close to the net) and fairly consider that Wahlstrom's job is not entry or puck handling and he is to set up his slapshot which also eliminates him being the Lee replacement, then that also seals the point. Couple that with his willingness to shoot (and his slap being the best on the team) and that is where it leaves you...

Savior no, but clearly we are night and day different with him on it...

I'm done. You care about individual stats instead of how often the PP succeeds. How often it succeeds is the only thing that matters.

Different, sure, but still shitty.

 

[MJF]

I'm done. You care about individual stats instead of how often the PP succeeds. How often it succeeds is the only thing that matters.

But they look better while they’re not scoring.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

I'm done. You care about individual stats instead of how often the PP succeeds. How often it succeeds is the only thing that matters.

Different, sure, but still shitty.

No, I too care about how the team succeeds. Using COMMON SENSE it SUCCEEDS more with him on it...period. Do I use individual stats to support that, sure....but no, it is not exclusive.

 

[PK Cronin]

No, I too care about how the team succeeds. Using COMMON SENSE it SUCCEEDS more with him on it...period. Do I use individual stats to support that, sure....but no, it is not exclusive.

A team operating a PP at 0% is more successful with Wahlstrom on it, even if the net result is still a PP at 0%! Brilliant.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

A team operating a PP at 0% is more successful with Wahlstrom on it, even if the net result is still a PP at 0%! Brilliant.

Dumb comment.

I have already proven that it was 19.4% with him on it as opposed to 17.8% without him. So even that is MORE SUCCESSFUL.

What is completely ignorant, is to ignore the minutes usage as well as the fact that he has been on the ice for 11 of the 18 goals we have scored in the games where he has been on the PP. Common sense says more minutes for him would lead to more success

Couple that with the OBVIOUS problems of our power play:

1. Entry (he is seldom responsible for entry into the zone)
2. Puck movement (he his seldom responsible for that either)
3. Replacing Lee (he is on the PP for his slapshot and Nelson, Pags and Palmieri <we have even tried Leo and Martin on occasion> are responsible for net presence not him)
4. Shots (he is actually HELPING in that area)
5. Winning Face Offs (doesn't partake)

So this is why it is absolutely INSANE not to concede that our PP is much better with him on it. Does it solve 1, 2, 3 and 5....no, but it helps in 2 and 3 (no rebounds if someone isn't shooting) and 4 is much much better.

 

[PK Cronin]

Dumb comment.

I have already proven that it was 19.4% with him on it as opposed to 17.8% without him. So even that is MORE SUCCESSFUL.

What is completely ignorant, is to ignore the minutes usage as well as the fact that he has been on the ice for 11 of the 18 goals we have scored in the games where he has been on the PP. Common sense says more minutes for him would lead to more success

Couple that with the OBVIOUS problems of our power play:

1. Entry (he is seldom responsible for entry into the zone)
2. Puck movement (he his seldom responsible for that either)
3. Replacing Lee (he is on the PP for his slapshot and Nelson, Pags and Palmieri <we have even tried Leo and Martin on occasion> are responsible for net presence not him)
4. Shots (he is actually HELPING in that area)
5. Winning Face Offs (doesn't partake)

So this is why it is absolutely INSANE not to concede that our PP is much better with him on it. Does it solve 1, 2, 3 and 5....no, but it helps in 2 and 3 (no rebounds if someone isn't shooting) and 4 is much much better.

You're right, so much more successful.

 

[SayItAintSoJohnny]

You're right, so much more successful.

More minutes for him and better entry and puck movement from the guys who are responsible and yes, CLEARLY it would be

 

[PK Cronin]

More minutes for him and better entry and puck movement from the guys who are responsible and yes, CLEARLY it would be

It would be, yes.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Expect a close series. I don't know how many games this will go, but Pens did win the division of death. You have to respect them. It's only going to get tougher. Keep your heads about you boys. Quoting Professor Keating from one of my favourite movies. Feel good today, not too high and not too low. Playoff hockey will do that to ya.

 

[MJF]

You're right, so much more successful.

Clearly you’re living in an alternate reality.