#FIRECHIA

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oobga

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Aug 1, 2003
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Serious question: Raise your hand if you are feeling positive about Chiarellis next big trade

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shoop

Registered User
Jul 6, 2008
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This year he didn't improve the team (which I've criticized him heavily for) and they flat out sucked. But again, to be fair I think it's a pretty tough situation when three of your top4 d-men struggle with injuries throughout the season and then combine that with below-average goaltending. That could sink any team (see TB last year), and I firmly believe this is a better hockey team than what they showed last year.

Also, realistically, what was Chia supposed to do about the injuries this year? It's not like top4 d-men are cheap and easy to acquire. Is it worth spending big assets to get a stop gap guy? Or do you just ride out the year and bounce back the following season? I'm genuinely curious what other options there were out there.

A competent backup goalie on the other hand shouldn't have been that hard or expensive to acquire, so that's a major fail in my book. This was a known issue for a while too. Betting on LB was stupid, same as betting on 'internal development' in terms of the forwards after trading away Eberle. Good GM's don't bet on unknowns unless they're absolutely forced to due to cap constraints. Oilers weren't in that position. Jokinen was a really bad gamble too, although I don't know if anyone here would've predicted he would've been as bad/useless as he was.

Very good post.

The defence was tough. In hindsight people are saying that Klefa was hurt all year. But did the team really know that?

Backup play is 20-20 in hindsight. Had to give Croissant a shot. Didn't work out so well and Chia made the trade asap. Maybe with a trusted backup from opening night Talbot plays a little less and things work out better. People forget that this team was in sniffing distance of the playoffs at the Christmas break.

Leaving that $8m+ in cap space unused wasn't such a good move. Either Chia learns from his mistakes this past season or he gets fired. All the wailing to fire him this off-season was too much and too soon.
 
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Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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Either Chia learns from his mistakes this past season or he gets fired. All the wailing to fire him this off-season was too much and too soon.

Chia's never shown any indication that he learns from his mistakes and giving him another chance to **** things up with another lost trade is ridiculous.
 
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shoop

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Chia's never shown any indication that he learns from his mistakes and giving him another chance to **** things up with another lost trade is ridiculous.

Yeah. Never, ever in his career. :huh:

Pulled that cup win and the second conference finals out of thin air.

Best regular season in 30 years for the Oilers was a complete fluke as was the first playoff appearance in a decade.

It's such vulgar, ill-informed bile that really detracts from the arguments of the most diehard anti-Chia faction here on HFOil.
 

McVirginOil

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Jun 30, 2014
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Yeah. Never, ever in his career. :huh:

Pulled that cup win and the second conference finals out of thin air.

Best regular season in 30 years for the Oilers was a complete fluke as was the first playoff appearance in a decade.

It's such vulgar, ill-informed bile that really detracts from the arguments of the most diehard anti-Chia faction here on HFOil.
He said learn from his mistakes, so that means not giving NMC away like candy, cap management, and losing major trades. I don’t see anything he’s done here that would make me believe he’s learned from those 3 mistakes.
 
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Little Fury

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Yeah. Never, ever in his career. :huh:

Pulled that cup win and the second conference finals out of thin air.

Don't forget he was gifted a great core and fluked into a all-time great performance from a 30-something journeyman goalie.

Best regular season in 30 years for the Oilers was a complete fluke as was the first playoff appearance in a decade.

2/3 years out of the playoffs with the best player in a generation. Wheeee.

It's such vulgar, ill-informed bile that really detracts from the arguments of the most diehard anti-Chia faction here on HFOil.

"Vulgar?" You're the tone police now?

But to your point, such as it is: we're not talking about chia's track record but his ability to learn from his mistakes. In Boston, he bled talent and rewarded "character" players with bloated contracts. He's done the same here so I'm not sure where the evidence that he learns from his mistakes is. "But muh playoffs!"
 
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shoop

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He said learn from his mistakes, so that means not giving NMC away like candy, cap management, and losing major trades. I don’t see anything he’s done here that would make me believe he’s learned from those 3 mistakes.

If you are going to attack the guy try and be honest.

The NMC/NTC line is just inaccurate. Five teams in the league have fewer NTC/NMC than the Oilers. What more can you do other than refuse to ever give out an NTC/NMC? The average number of NTC?NMC per team is 5.7. If Chia is giving out fewer NTC/NMC than average characterizing him 'giving away NMC like candy' is flat out dishonest.

Cap management? Yeah, not so smart last year. We'll see how this off-season goes. I think he has been a little too free with the buyouts and that's his major issue with cap management.

Losing major trades? Hall/Larsson is still hotly debated. Reinhart is on the OBC. What other major trades lost? Eberle had a huge cap component to it.
 
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Consultant

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Sep 12, 2010
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Reinhart is not on the Old Boys Club. That is such crap. Chia was the GM, Chia was on the phone, Chia made the trade, Chia as GM takes responsibility for that trade. It was Chia's trade, he said he saw him playing out east. At the time he took all the 'credit'. Sure OBC likely gave the thumbs up, but it was Chia that pulled the trigger, Chia was the GM, it is on him 100%.
 

Consultant

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Sep 12, 2010
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And the Eberle cap component... Oiler never used the cap savings, so another big fail there not a redemption point...
 

Consultant

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Sep 12, 2010
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and while I'm at it, really don't think Hall/ Larsson is still widely debated.
Hall is up for MVP. You think NJ would do a reverse swap?
One of the worst trades in Oilers history.
Having said that Larsson, plus a first rounder, plus a blue chip prospect and I would have done the deal too.
Chia got fleeced three June's in a row, hence we are all scared crapless as May ticks by.
 

shoop

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Jul 6, 2008
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Don't forget he was gifted a great core and fluked into a all-time great performance from a 30-something journeyman goalie.

Thomas certainly played out of his mind. Strange thing with the NHL goalies can almost will their teams to Stanley Cups. People were calling MA Fleury washed up, but he looks like he could almost single-handedly lead the Golden Knights to a cup this year. If Vegas wins this year, I'm sure the detractors will claim it is on generous expansion rules and an all-time great performance from a 30-something, thought to be washed up goalie. No credit for poor George McPhee either.

2/3 years out of the playoffs with the best player in a generation. Wheeee.

Fun fact. That generational talent missed half of one of those two out of the playoff seasons. Kinda puts the 2 of 3 years missing the playoffs into perspective.

"Vulgar?" You're the tone police now?

Not policing anything. Just questioning if the vulgarity is really necessary. If you view it as policing I apologize.


In Boston, he bled talent and rewarded "character" players with bloated contracts. He's done the same here so I'm not sure where the evidence that he learns from his mistakes is. "But muh playoffs!"

Maybe if you define 'ability to learn from his mistakes' in a way that can be clearly measured. Bloated contracts, bleeding talent and the pejorative "character" players are all wildly open to interpretation and always interpreted negatively by you.
 

Aerrol

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Sep 18, 2014
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Ron Hainsey is also 37 and was coming off of a Stanley Cup Championship run. You can excuse him for settling for a less risky deal. The others? Sure they're in Kris Russell territory of what's expected from them. The point was the Oilers were in no position to let him walk. Every one of those other options were off the table July 1st. People were already pissed we didn't sign someone else from that crop of FAs due to the Sekera injury. But we can ***** and complain about Chiarelli signing someone who was ON THE OILERS playoff roster? For a minimal raise to boot? That no movement clause is nothing more than three letter that will never effect anything. The moment Kris Russell becomes redundant on the Edmonton Oilers is the day he waives it. Stop causing yourself senseless stress.

???? What are you basing this on? Why on earth would you assume this? He's stated multiple times that staying in Alberta is a big deal to him.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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Fun fact. That generational talent missed half of one of those two out of the playoff seasons. Kinda puts the 2 of 3 years missing the playoffs into perspective.

Yeah it points to a guy who is not getting enough help.

Maybe if you define 'ability to learn from his mistakes' in a way that can be clearly measured. Bloated contracts, bleeding talent and the pejorative "character" players are all wildly open to interpretation and always interpreted negatively by you.

Well the problem is it's subjective. Bleeding talent is a bad thing, but others will find all kinds of reasons to justify a trade that is a loser from a pure value point of view. Let me put it this way: I don't think Chia learns from his mistakes because in his mind, these things are probably not mistakes.
 

Aerrol

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The funny thing is that he wasn't a needed commodity, just someone they could use in a small role.

Yeah. I don't mind the Sekera NMC because he fills a huge role for the team when playing well. Russell on the other hand is a #4 at best, and while is playing around a level that meets his dollar value, definitely doesn't deserve a NMC. Especially at that price.
 

McGoMcD

Registered User
Aug 14, 2005
15,688
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Edmonton, AB
Yeah. Never, ever in his career. :huh:

Pulled that cup win and the second conference finals out of thin air.

Best regular season in 30 years for the Oilers was a complete fluke as was the first playoff appearance in a decade.

It's such vulgar, ill-informed bile that really detracts from the arguments of the most diehard anti-Chia faction here on HFOil.

The problem with this is that all you do is state Chia's accomplishments with no perspective. Not talking about the moves he actually made and at what cost.

Sure he won the cup in Boston while he was given a great core and a Cinderella season from Tim Thomas, 940 sv% in the playoffs is just unheard of.

He comes to Edmonton and makes the playoffs after being gifted the best player in the game and a pile of young talent ready to take a step forward.

Plenty of bad GM's win, if they are gifted great teams they are going to win despite being bad GMs. If you look at his asset management it is horrific, just no getting around it. He loses trades, signs players to bad deals. For what he spends and what he trades he gets a very poor return. Sure he signed a few players that filled holes but nearly every one at too high a price (Lucic, Russel, Sekera, all look over payed now). Then he fills holes on D, gets Larsson and Reinhart, but trades way to much to do so. The oilers could win the cup next year on the back of McD, still doesn't make Chia a good GM. He isn't a good GM and never will be a good one.
 

shoop

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Jul 6, 2008
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Edmonton
Yeah it points to a guy who is not getting enough help.

I guess, but it kinda points to always going after Chia all the time. The missing playoffs 2/3 years with a 'generational talent' doesn't fly upon closer scrutiny. Neither does the giving out NTCs/NMCs like candy (not your words, but the viewpoint of a few of your fellow anti-Chia travellers.)

Well the problem is it's subjective. Bleeding talent is a bad thing, but others will find all kinds of reasons to justify a trade that is a loser from a pure value point of view. Let me put it this way: I don't think Chia learns from his mistakes because in his mind, these things are probably not mistakes.

I completely here what you are saying, but in a cap league you can't approach trades from a pure value situation.

I really hope Chia learns from his mistakes. We'll find out more this off-season and especially come training camp. Cap management is absolutely Chia's biggest issue.

I suspect we will see a mid-level type move on defence. Hopefully it's for a decent RHS PP specialist on a short contract. The shorter term is to give Bear and maybe Persson a season in Bako to develop with the hopes one of them can grab that job in 2019-20. Even at that one of Klefa/Nurse/Benning has to go.

You never know, but if Benning rebounds he might grab that PP specialist job. I think a new PP coach will bring a breath of fresh air.

Yeah. I don't mind the Sekera NMC because he fills a huge role for the team when playing well. Russell on the other hand is a #4 at best, and while is playing around a level that meets his dollar value, definitely doesn't deserve a NMC. Especially at that price.

As long as Russell is earning his salary why fret about the NMC? Year one of his contract was a success. Let's judge future years on his level of play at the time.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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I really hope Chia learns from his mistakes. We'll find out more this off-season and especially come training camp. Cap management is absolutely Chia's biggest issue.

I suspect we will see a mid-level type move on defence. Hopefully it's for a decent RHS PP specialist on a short contract. The shorter term is to give Bear and maybe Persson a season in Bako to develop with the hopes one of them can grab that job in 2019-20. Even at that one of Klefa/Nurse/Benning has to go.

You never know, but if Benning rebounds he might grab that PP specialist job. I think a new PP coach will bring a breath of fresh air.

Wait, why do any of those guys "have" to go?
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
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Yeah. I don't mind the Sekera NMC because he fills a huge role for the team when playing well. Russell on the other hand is a #4 at best, and while is playing around a level that meets his dollar value, definitely doesn't deserve a NMC. Especially at that price.
It reminds me of when the Flames used to hand out NMCs/NTCs to everyone. At one point I think half of their roster had them.

They're generally used as a tool to lower cap hit... So it was going to be even higher?
 
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Aerrol

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It reminds me of when the Flames used to hand out NMCs/NTCs to everyone. At one point I think half of their roster had them.

They're generally used as a tool to lower cap hit... So it was going to be even higher?

Right? If Russell's playing hardball you say ok. I'm already offering you more than the Flames will, since you only want to play in Alberta. If you're chasing dollars purely across the league, I doubt you get more either. Go shopping and get back to me if you want.
 

shoop

Registered User
Jul 6, 2008
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Wait, why do any of those guys "have" to go?

Depends on the deal and the salary coming in. I don't see how the Oilers can bring in an established RHS D and fit him in under the cap without somebody going out. Nurse will be getting paid if he stays with the Oilers. Sekera and Russell have NMCs. Can't see Larsson getting traded.

Assuming no one waives their NMC, how does a deal to bring in a RHS D PP specialist get done but for moving one of Klefa/Nurse/Benning going?
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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Depends on the deal and the salary coming in. I don't see how the Oilers can bring in an established RHS D and fit him in under the cap without somebody going out. Nurse will be getting paid if he stays with the Oilers. Sekera and Russell have NMCs. Can't see Larsson getting traded.

Assuming no one waives their NMC, how does a deal to bring in a RHS D PP specialist get done but for moving one of Klefa/Nurse/Benning going?

You don't. You work with what you have instead of blowing your brains out on another bad trade.
 

harpoon

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Dec 23, 2005
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The job of a GM is to make his team win hockey games, not to collect assets.
Who said anything about 'collecting'? Nobody except you.

This is going to be a hard concept for a Peter fan to understand but think on it deeply. One can have an appropriate number of required assets. And by 'required' I mean shit like, two workable goaltenders, at least five or six NHL defensemen, some goal scoring forwards, some PKers etc etc.

Do you get it? Chiarelli has stripped this team of assets (or ignored his duty to fill holes) at almost every position and he still has guys like you in here twisting reality and contorting the truth to try to make Peter look like something other than then complete dumb f*** that he is.
 
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Zaddy

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Feb 8, 2013
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Who said anything about 'collecting'? Nobody except you.

The quote you said was a jewel of truth was this: "your job of a GM is to leave with more assets than you came with. So far Chia just lost assets."

How is that not the same as collecting assets? Unless you're marking words lol.

The goal of a GM is to make his team a winning team. If he comes in and have to spend assets to do so, how is that a bad thing? As long as the team is winning, which the team was last year after the big trade. This year the team didn't win, but Chia also didn't spend any assets or do anything to help the team. And we both hate the Eberle trade so you don't need to bring that up.

This is going to be a hard concept for a Peter fan to understand but think on it deeply. One can have an appropriate number of required assets. And by 'required' I mean **** like, two workable goaltenders, at least five or six NHL defensemen, some goal scoring forwards, some PKers etc etc.

Do you get it? Chiarelli has stripped this team of assets (or ignored his duty to fill holes) at almost every position and he still has guys like you in here twisting reality and contorting the truth to try to make Peter look like something other than then complete dumb **** that he is.

Well for starters I'm not a 'Peter fan'. I'm defending the moves I think he did well, and criticizing him for the ones I hated (Reinhart trade, Eberle trade) as well as the lack of moves/upgrades this offseason.

Yes Chia has squandered assets and ignored his duty to fill holes. No one hated the Reinhart trade more than me. I even got attacked by some people for my strong dislike of it and called both this, that and the other, some even insinuating I didn't know anything about hockey.

In my most recent post in this thread I also criticized Chia for his lack of filling the backup goalie position and getting top9 wingers going into this season ... so, I really don't know why you're attacking me for being some huge Chia supporter. I'm just trying to have a rational view on what has transpired here since he took over and not just blindly hate on everything.
 
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