#FIRECHIA

Discussion in 'Edmonton Oilers' started by Dawn Wall, Nov 6, 2017.

View Users: View Users
  1. Aceboogie

    Aceboogie Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    29,293
    Likes Received:
    732
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Lucic played most of the year with the best player in the league and Draisaitl (or RNH otherwise) and mustered 1 more point than Ryan, who had nowhere near that level of linemates. Lucic also crushed McDavids production when they were together. So yes I would take Ryan for 1.25m more because he would actually offer value to McDavid, or at the very min not drag him down as much.

    Seabrook is declining, but given our poor D core, atleast hed offer assistance. Lucic offers next to nothing. The only thing he does less than scoring is offering any resemblance of toughness or grit
     
  2. Aceboogie

    Aceboogie Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    29,293
    Likes Received:
    732
    Trophy Points:
    139
    10. Dude has an itchy trigger finger and Klefbom coming off a down/injured year. Its like a 65% chance hes getting dealt for MDC
     
    dawunderboy likes this.
  3. Aceboogie

    Aceboogie Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    29,293
    Likes Received:
    732
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Uhhhhh. Going from most liquid to least 2 2015 2nds, 2015 1st (15th overall), 2016 1st, Eberle, Schultz, Yakupov, Nurse, Klefbom, RNH, Draisaitl, Hall. What Chiarelli did have in June of 2015 was a vast wealth of assets he could have used for NHL roster players

    From the above list, he dealt 7 of them and got back Reinhart, Larsson and some later round picks
     
    Oscar Acosta likes this.
  4. Aceboogie

    Aceboogie Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    29,293
    Likes Received:
    732
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Most of those D you listed are Russell level or above. Ron Hainsey is a better D, who was a better D the year before, and was a better D for the Leafs last year. He signed for 3 mil for 2 years. Not only is/was he a better D, he makes a mil less for 2 years less. This is a much begtter option than Russell, and one I was saying we should do last year. Kulikov had an off year, but even at this, hes still similar to Russel, and with being 4 years younger, has a better chance of recovering. Oh yeah, and he only has a modified NTC, not even a full NMC like Russell and signed for a year less. I would take the flexibility to trade him over the 300K difference any day. Alzner is a worse D and worse contract, but Habs are a rare team as stupid as the Oilers so I can see how that contract was made

    Russell had a history of not being a good middle pairing D, which was why Calgary fans were ok with letting him go based on his contract demands. Then no team matches his contract demands because they are also aware, leaving him to go unsigned until late in the offseason when Oilers throw him a bone. He gets paired with the vastly, vastly superior Sekera, who proceeds to prop up Russell (and we had the numbers to show how much better Sekera was away from Russell, or how much Sekera raised him up). Then after a surprising year, Chiarelli and the fans became drunk and delusional thinking they somehow found the magic potion to turn Russell into a top 4 D (it was Sekera all along), and paid him as a good top 4 D. Not surprisingly, when Sekera was injured and missed most of this year, without his saving grace, Russell proceeded to look like he has for 95% of his career, which is a barely passable middle pairing D

    Ive shown how the contract will lead to problems:
    1. TM has a history of overplaying vets on bigger contracts. This directly hurts the team
    2. There is the possibility of an expansion draft for Seattle in the last 2 years of his deal when he has a Modified NTC, NMC. Given the expansion draft rules will be similar, this may well likely cause us to be forced to use a protection spot on him and lose a younger, better player
    3. By overpaying for Russell (and others), its causes Pete to think we are in a dire contract bind (that he caused) and rush to trade away players for cap relief (like the Eberle trade)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  5. Aceboogie

    Aceboogie Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    29,293
    Likes Received:
    732
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Serious question: Raise your hand if you are feeling positive about Chiarellis next big trade
     
  6. shoop

    shoop Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,863
    Likes Received:
    756
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Five posts in a row?! What a positive and interesting way to foster debate and the free exchange of ideas on the topic of Peter Chiarelli as general manager of the Oilers. :D
     
  7. Jet Walters

    Jet Walters Registered User

    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Messages:
    5,255
    Likes Received:
    508
    Trophy Points:
    109
    I'm preparing to throw a hissy fit that will be so epic I'll have to change my user name before coming back.
     
    CantHaveTkachev likes this.
  8. McGoMcD

    McGoMcD Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    14,990
    Likes Received:
    206
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Location:
    Edmonton, AB
    Ya, every one who is supporting Chia just seems to be dodging the fact that he has squandered assets. They keep going on about how Larsson isn't that bad ect, just completely losing touch of the fact Hall is a better asset. Sure maybe Hall needed to be traded (I doubt it), but doesn't even matter. your job of a GM is to leave with more assets than you came with. So far Chia just lost assets. I have so little faith in him right now.

    allegedly he has built a better team? losing individual assets but gaining in team chemistry, but even that I don't see at all. So something has to give.
     
  9. GreatKeith

    GreatKeith You can win trades?

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    36,700
    Likes Received:
    1,895
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Accountant
    Location:
    Calgary
    Oh the irony....

    Anyway, no I don't. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Because that's what the supporters would want.
     
  10. shoop

    shoop Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,863
    Likes Received:
    756
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Edmonton
    If you don't see it then there is nothing that can really be said.

    First playoff appearance in a decade? Check.

    First 100+ point regular season in 30 years? Check.

    The last two seasons are the Oilers best two seasons in the last nine years.

    Now when you say "allegedly he has built a better team", what does the allegedly part mean?

    Is there anything you would accept to prove the Oilers are a better team?
     
  11. Little Fury

    Little Fury Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,430
    Likes Received:
    1,213
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Call me crazy but I feel like getting gifted the best player in a generation may have something to do with that.

    Improvement was basically a given the day those lottery balls dropped. The question that remains to be answered is whether Chia can build a team around McDavid that can actually compete for a Stanley Cup on a consistent basis.
     
  12. shoop

    shoop Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,863
    Likes Received:
    756
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Of course that was going to be the anti-Chia answer. I replied to a post saying the Oilers were "allegedly" better since Chia took over. The Oilers are absolutely better since Chia took over.

    But, but, but you gotta trip over yourself to find a reason to hack on Chia. At least you admit the Oilers are better, even if you are coming up with an excuse. Perhaps you could reply to @McGoMcD who "allegedly" isn't convinced the Oilers are better at all under Chiarelli.
     
  13. Little Fury

    Little Fury Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,430
    Likes Received:
    1,213
    Trophy Points:
    139
    You know you're arguing with someone in full apologist mode when a comment like "Connor McDavid improved the Oilers" gets a sputtering rebuttal like this.
     
    harpoon likes this.
  14. shoop

    shoop Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,863
    Likes Received:
    756
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Not accurate at all. Of course McDavid improved the Oilers. I was pointing out the insanity of someone claiming that the Oilers hadn't improved under Chiarelli.

    You called out an 'apologist' but can't call out someone in full out denial mode claiming that the team has only "allegedly" improved under Chiarelli. At least you admit the team has improved. Why not call out @McGoMcD for being in full attack mode?
     
  15. harpoon

    harpoon inching up the mountain ... lmfao

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    733
    Trophy Points:
    139
    We can probably wrap the thread up right here, with this jewel of truth.
    Can't wait to see what Peter has planned for the off season to 'improve' the team. :laugh:
     
    dawunderboy likes this.
  16. Zaddy

    Zaddy Retired.

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Messages:
    9,462
    Likes Received:
    951
    Trophy Points:
    109
    How is that a 'jewel of truth'? The job of a GM is to make his team win hockey games, not to collect assets. Which is exactly what this team did last year.
     
    McCupofOil likes this.
  17. GreatKeith

    GreatKeith You can win trades?

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    36,700
    Likes Received:
    1,895
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Accountant
    Location:
    Calgary
    And has failed to do in 2/3 of his years.

    With essentially every player from the previous regime gone (save RNH), the Oilers are starved of assets to improve their team.
     
    dawunderboy likes this.
  18. CantHaveTkachev

    CantHaveTkachev hehehe

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    25,926
    Likes Received:
    1,656
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St. OILbert
    weird, I thought the job of GM is to build a winning team
     
  19. McCupofOil

    McCupofOil Still Evaluating

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    25,046
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    5-14-6-1
    This is true but 2 out of his 3 seasons have been losing seasons so he's not doing his job in that respect either. Losing assets and losing games is a killer combo. It's make or break time for Pete.
     
    dawunderboy likes this.
  20. belair

    belair Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    17,204
    Likes Received:
    1,981
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Canada
    And you win hockey games by winning trades. The two are directly correlated with one another. Proven fact.
     
    dawunderboy likes this.
  21. shoop

    shoop Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    9,863
    Likes Received:
    756
    Trophy Points:
    139
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Edmonton
    I think everybody agrees it's make or break for Chiarelli. What is the make though?

    Does 92 points and just missing the playoffs mean he loses his job?
     
  22. belair

    belair Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    17,204
    Likes Received:
    1,981
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Canada
    Ron Hainsey is also 37 and was coming off of a Stanley Cup Championship run. You can excuse him for settling for a less risky deal. The others? Sure they're in Kris Russell territory of what's expected from them. The point was the Oilers were in no position to let him walk. Every one of those other options were off the table July 1st. People were already pissed we didn't sign someone else from that crop of FAs due to the Sekera injury. But we can ***** and complain about Chiarelli signing someone who was ON THE OILERS playoff roster? For a minimal raise to boot? That no movement clause is nothing more than three letter that will never effect anything. The moment Kris Russell becomes redundant on the Edmonton Oilers is the day he waives it. Stop causing yourself senseless stress.
     
  23. GreatKeith

    GreatKeith You can win trades?

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    36,700
    Likes Received:
    1,895
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Accountant
    Location:
    Calgary
    And when you aren't winning either one, you're not doing a very good job.
     
    Aerrol likes this.
  24. belair

    belair Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    17,204
    Likes Received:
    1,981
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Canada
    No argument there.
     
  25. Zaddy

    Zaddy Retired.

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Messages:
    9,462
    Likes Received:
    951
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Well to be fair I don't know if you can hold that 1st year against him. Coming in fresh on the job and with a new head coach. He tried to adress the defense and goaltending with the Talbot, Sekera and Reinhart trades and then wanted to evaluate what he had in terms of the forwards. Probably didn't help that McDavid got injured either.

    2nd year the team exceeded all expectations and had an amazing season.

    This year he didn't improve the team (which I've criticized him heavily for) and they flat out sucked. But again, to be fair I think it's a pretty tough situation when three of your top4 d-men struggle with injuries throughout the season and then combine that with below-average goaltending. That could sink any team (see TB last year), and I firmly believe this is a better hockey team than what they showed last year.

    Also, realistically, what was Chia supposed to do about the injuries this year? It's not like top4 d-men are cheap and easy to acquire. Is it worth spending big assets to get a stop gap guy? Or do you just ride out the year and bounce back the following season? I'm genuinely curious what other options there were out there.

    A competent backup goalie on the other hand shouldn't have been that hard or expensive to acquire, so that's a major fail in my book. This was a known issue for a while too. Betting on LB was stupid, same as betting on 'internal development' in terms of the forwards after trading away Eberle. Good GM's don't bet on unknowns unless they're absolutely forced to due to cap constraints. Oilers weren't in that position. Jokinen was a really bad gamble too, although I don't know if anyone here would've predicted he would've been as bad/useless as he was.
     
    shoop likes this.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"