Fire/Don't Fire/Discuss Torts II

[Cyclones Rock]

I’m in full support of Wennberg transitioning to soccer.

I would gladly watch "midfielder" Alexander Wennberg play in a sport more suited to his constitution.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Paul Maclean is going to make it easy to move on from Torts , whenever that may be . I find the interviews with players interesting about now instead of just playing , they have to be in certain places at certain times . And look, all a sudden we have a top 10 powerplay

 

[EDM]

I agree with that 100%. Now they play with a purpose rather than just mucking around. Larsen seems to b a perfect power play coach for Torts: some who believes that PP goals just occur magically rather than being the result of the successful execution of a plan laid out in advance

 

[Monstershockey]

I hope if they fire Torts and hire McLean he is better than he was in Ottowa, or the same people crying about Torts will cry about Mclean also.

 

[puckthat]

So I think folks around this board get upset with the player management. Take Robinson for example. Scores 3 goals in 7 games. Gets scratched while some of the vets can't score to save their lives. The kid has the hustle you want. Rotate him in and out of the lineup. Its not like most of the forwards have been earning their time (or perhaps playing hurt). Just like most of us are baffled about the TOI for some of these guys. His rational for who plays and who sits is mystifying.

 

[KJ Dangler]

So I think folks around this board get upset with the player management. Take Robinson for example. Scores 3 goals in 7 games. Gets scratched while some of the vets can't score to save their lives. The kid has the hustle you want. Rotate him in and out of the lineup. Its not like most of the forwards have been earning their time (or perhaps playing hurt). Just like most of us are baffled about the TOI for some of these guys. His rational for who plays and who sits is mystifying.

Yup , certainly a common problem . Torts gotta Torts I guess . Speaking of this , with the PC garbage making its way thru the NHL now, how long until a Torts was mean to me story comes out, and he’s forced to resign ?

https://www.tsn.ca/chicago-blackhawks-assistant-coach-marc-crawford-to-go-on-leave-1.1407199

 

[Monstershockey]

Yup , certainly a common problem . Torts gotta Torts I guess . Speaking of this , with the PC garbage making its way thru the NHL now, how long until a Torts was mean to me story comes out, and he’s forced to resign ?

https://www.tsn.ca/chicago-blackhawks-assistant-coach-marc-crawford-to-go-on-leave-1.1407199

Well, seeing as it's Sean Avery making the allegations against Crawford, it won't surprise me if he goes after Torts. There is an interview somewhere on the internet of Avery whining about him. I guess you have to take this stuff seriously, but Avery is a clown.

 

[Light the Lamp]

Well, seeing as it's Sean Avery making the allegations against Crawford, it won't surprise me if he goes after Torts. There is an interview somewhere on the internet of Avery whining about him. I guess you have to take this stuff seriously, but Avery is a clown.

Patrick O'Sullivan was very open about his disdain for Crawford on NHL radio last year. I was shocked at the comments. Basically said Crawford tried to ruin his career by pressuring him to play with a major injury.

While everyone wants to speculate that Torts will be called out, there is one difference. Torts does show contrition. If he is honest with himself and the players after he goes off the rails, that will have some merit.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Well, seeing as it's Sean Avery making the allegations against Crawford, it won't surprise me if he goes after Torts. There is an interview somewhere on the internet of Avery whining about him. I guess you have to take this stuff seriously, but Avery is a clown.

Look, I don't know for certain, but I think if Torts did anything close to what's being accused from Peters, Crawford, or Sutter it would be out by now. He might be an asshole, but I don't think he is in that way.

I could be wrong though, but I sincerely hope not. Not just for Torts, but for any other coach.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I watched Oliver Bjorkstrand pretty closely last night. He fought hard for pucks and won, I'd imagine, more than his fair share of battles. He had 6 shots on goal. His compete level is high. He's a pretty good player. He came into the league as a soft player who was very leery of doing the dirty work. Not anymore.

Oh, and who pushed and prodded him to improve? Yeah, the guy who can't develop players. PLD-another player who Torts stagnated his development-didn't look bad either last night.

The record of this team is a roster problem directly related to the third rate GM. It's not a coaching problem. Wennberg is on his way to healthy scratches. Don't even try to say that Torts wanted him playing as much as he was.

He's got to try and let Anderson (who has to be hurt-he doesn't check people anymore) and Atkinson come around or this team has no hope of coming even close to generating the offense which they need to become competitive.

Yeah, Bemstrom probably should have been in the line up tonight. But I think that tonight's game could have been Wennberg's Waterloo. Even the foolish GM who didn't buy his pet out out might accede to this.

 

[Monstershockey]

Look, I don't know for certain, but I think if Torts did anything close to what's being accused from Peters, Crawford, or Sutter it would be out by now. He might be an *******, but I don't think he is in that way.

I could be wrong though, but I sincerely hope not. Not just for Torts, but for any other coach.

I agree. I don't think Torts did anything. I just remember Avery going off on him. It just made me laugh when I saw him making allegations against Crawford when he was just as big a clown.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I watched Oliver Bjorkstrand pretty closely last night. He fought hard for pucks and won, I'd imagine, more than his fair share of battles. He had 6 shots on goal. His compete level is high. He's a pretty good player. He came into the league as a soft player who was very leery of doing the dirty work. Not anymore.

Oh, and who pushed and prodded him to improve? Yeah, the guy who can't develop players.

Bjorkstrand hasn't lived up to ours or Jarmo's hype for him. If you talk to folks in the Monsters organization or people who cover the Monsters - and I have - they say his creativity is gone. Just watch his shootout attempt a few weeks ago. It's nothing like his junior or A days. Torts has basically stagnated his offensively creative part of his game. Not that every guy's game in juniors can translate to the NHL, but Torts has taken an offensively skilled and creative forward and has turned him into a checking grinder who can occasionally unleash a quick snipe. Some say that's good, some say that's bad.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Yeah, the guy who can't develop players.

To play devil's advocate - he essentially ran Johansen out of town for not playing a grinding game. Is the Wennberg fall from grace on Wennberg or Torts? William Karlsson blossomed once he got away from Torts. Duclair and Dzingel are doing better away from Torts this season.

Depending on how you view Bjorkstrand - an NHL success because of Torts or wasted offensive potential - the only young guys who seem to really succeed under Torts are 6'3'' bulls basically - PLD and Anderson.

And that's probably not surprising given Torts' history as a coach and his style. But why does Jarmo insist Torts' job is safe and he thinks he's a good coach if he continually drafts less physical, but perhaps more skilled players (Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Milano, Abramov, Bemstrom, Davidsson, etc.)? It seems like there's a disconnect with the players the GM is drafting and the system the coach likes to run.

 

[Monstershockey]

Bjorkstrand hasn't lived up to ours or Jarmo's hype for him. If you talk to folks in the Monsters organization or people who cover the Monsters - and I have - they say his creativity is gone. Just watch his shootout attempt a few weeks ago. It's nothing like his junior or A days. Torts has basically stagnated his offensively creative part of his game. Not that every guy's game in juniors can translate to the NHL, but Torts has taken an offensively skilled and creative forward and has turned him into a checking grinder who can occasionally unleash a quick snipe. Some say that's good, some say that's bad.

Yeah, ok. I see the same guy that has played for the Monsters. He is not afraid to go into corners and battle for the puck, unlike Milano. Bjorkstrand is basically the same guy I watched play in Cleveland. You want to point out a shootout attempt, I'll point out the play a couple of games ago when he passed the puck to himself off the boards and created a goal off of that. You must have been talking to the hot dog guys.

 

[EspenK]

And that's probably not surprising given Torts' history as a coach and his style. But why does Jarmo insist Torts' job is safe and he thinks he's a good coach if he continually drafts less physical, but perhaps more skilled players (Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Milano, Abramov, Bemstrom, Davidsson, etc.)? It seems like there's a disconnect with the players the GM is drafting and the system the coach likes to run.

I have believed this to be true for a few years now.

 

[Monstershockey]

If you look at Bjorkstrands numbers as a younger player before turning pro, you will see he was more of a goal scorer as he usually had more goals than assists. The fact that in 3 years he has more assists than goals shows he has become more of a passer in the NHL. So, in a way, Torts has coached him to be more creative with the puck, and involve other guys. Anyways, he is a shooter, it is more important for him to be in position for a quality shot than it is for him to be creative. That has never been his game.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Late last month, when the reckoning between NHL players and coaches was in its nascent stages, John Tortorella received two phone calls in his office next to the Blue Jackets’ dressing room in Nationwide Arena.

The first was from Blue Jackets’ management, wanting to know if there was anything in Tortorella’s past that he needed to make known to them before one of his former players made it public.

The second was from the NHL with a similar request. If Tortorella had skeletons in his closet, the league, as public relations people like to say, wanted to “get out in front of it.”

Among this generation of coaches, none is more known for his volatile temper than Tortorella, which is why it’s no surprise that his bosses in Columbus and New York wanted to speak to him.

Tortorella declined to be interviewed for this story, but The Athletic contacted several players who played for him during NHL stops with the Tampa Bay Lightning, New York Rangers, Vancouver Canucks and the Blue Jackets.

Some were willing to talk on the record, and others spoke off the record to provide background, but they all delivered essentially the same message:

Tortorella has chastised players in the middle of the dressing room or even on the bench during games, and there were times the confrontations were uncomfortable. They left the rink angry with him on occasion, and they often disagreed with his coaching decisions and/or his approach.

But they also were emphatic: They never witnessed Tortorella crossing the line to being verbally or physically abusive.

John Tortorella, his volatile, confrontational style, and...

 

[DarkandStormy]

Yeah, ok. I see the same guy that has played for the Monsters. He is not afraid to go into corners and battle for the puck, unlike Milano. Bjorkstrand is basically the same guy I watched play in Cleveland. You want to point out a shootout attempt, I'll point out the play a couple of games ago when he passed the puck to himself off the boards and created a goal off of that. You must have been talking to the hot dog guys.

I will pass along to one of the Monsters beat writers of the last few years that you think their hockey analysis is equivalent to a hot dog guy. Cheers.

 

[Monstershockey]

I will pass along to one of the Monsters beat writers of the last few years that you think their hockey analysis is equivalent to a hot dog guy. Cheers.

Okay. Tell them I like stadium mustard on my hot dog, not that yellow crap. Actually, now that I think of it, if they want, I could meet them at the game and talk to them. I didn't know the Monsters had a beat reporter. You wouldn't know anybody covered the Monsters here in Cleveland. If it makes Cleveland.com you really have to search for it, and only one sports talk station even mentions them. You guys probably get more coverage than we do.

 

[Viqsi]

William Karlsson

 

[EDM]

Wennberg;s stench is of his own creation. It cannot be rationally blamed on Torts.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

To play devil's advocate - he essentially ran Johansen out of town for not playing a grinding game. Is the Wennberg fall from grace on Wennberg or Torts? William Karlsson blossomed once he got away from Torts. Duclair and Dzingel are doing better away from Torts this season.

Depending on how you view Bjorkstrand - an NHL success because of Torts or wasted offensive potential - the only young guys who seem to really succeed under Torts are 6'3'' bulls basically - PLD and Anderson.

And that's probably not surprising given Torts' history as a coach and his style. But why does Jarmo insist Torts' job is safe and he thinks he's a good coach if he continually drafts less physical, but perhaps more skilled players (Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Milano, Abramov, Bemstrom, Davidsson, etc.)? It seems like there's a disconnect with the players the GM is drafting and the system the coach likes to run.

I always enjoy your posts even when I disagree with them. And I disagree with this one for the most part

To bolded: He did Jarmo's dirty work for him with Johansen. I'll wager it was a condition of his employment.

If Bjorkstrand is a solid 25 goals scorer, then he's a rousing success. He was a late 3rd round pick. Offensive creativity doesn't always translate from lower levels. In fact it doesn't most of the time. I wouldn't consider Bjorkstrand to be a grinder. I'd consider him to be a hard working sniper who isn't a very creative passer most of the time. If a power play scheme is developed which can take advantage of his shot, then he could be a 30 goal scorer.

Karlsson is a black mark. A huge one. No argument here.

Wennberg has been given every opportunity to shine. Blame with this guy is on the GMs shoulders. He's always favored him. If giving him a $5 million/6 year RFA contract-when no one else except for Jones warranted one from Jarmo/JD- isn't solid evidence of this then I don't know what is. Wennberg was a bad draft pick made much worse by the GMs stubborn insistence that he was much better than he ever has been or will be. The cord should have been cut last off season with this bum.

Dzingel was here such a short time and during a playoff run where there wasn't time to forge a meaningful connection with Torts' role in his development or lack thereof.

I would have liked to have seen what would have happened with Duclair over a longer period here. Given how many teams he's been on in his young career, I'd be inclined to give Torts a pass even if he made mistakes with him. Which I'm not saying that he did.

 

[Doug19]

John Tortorella, his volatile, confrontational style, and...

And one wonders why a lot of the country doesn't trust or like the media. Attempted smear campaign failed.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

And one wonders why a lot of the country doesn't trust or like the media. Attempted smear campaign failed.

I was ambivalent toward Portzine before. Not anymore. He did everything he could to try to take Torts down. Didn't even get some crappy hearsay. He's a common system hack.

 

[koteka]

Ryan Johansen’s problems are all Ryan Johansen.

I think some Preds fans have figured him out are wondering what they could get for him in a trade. He has 17 points in 27 games, but he had 7 points in the first 5 games. 10 points in his last 22 games is on par with what Cam or Figs are doing this season.

To say anything with Johansen is a Torts issue is ridiculous.