Fire Tocchet

[XX]

Glad we’re all smiles at practice after scoring 1 lucky goal against the 30th ranked defense in a must win game. What the f*ck are we even doing?

Tocchet has a "don't pile on the misery" coaching philosophy. He's talked about it before. He doesn't want to kick guys when they are down. The problem is that he is taking what he learned as a player and a coach on highly competitive teams and applying it to a team with no external pressure and no internal leadership. The result is an instant country club.

Avoiding being the bad cop only works if the team has leadership that holds itself accountable and wants to win above all else.

 

[Canis Latrans]

I wouldn't be surprised if Meruelo is behind Tocchet still being behind the bench. He's been owner for less than a year; it's possible he simply wants to give him more time to see if he can right the ship. Remember, Meruelo came into the team and was effusive about both Chayka and Tocchet, so he likely came in pleased with the coach and direction of the team, saw it performing well enough up until the Hall acquisition, and then has seen things tumble. It may not be long enough for him to declare a change is necessary. My guess is that he sees there being little difference between pursuing a coaching change now and just waiting until the off-season if he does, indeed, feel so inclined.

 

[Jakey53]

Glad we’re all smiles at practice after scoring 1 lucky goal against the 30th ranked defense in a must win game. What the f*ck are we even doing?

What are they suppose to do. Once the game is over, you go to the next one. No use sulking.

 

[Grimes]

If I was Meruelo this is what I would do for the offseason and next season.
Step 1. Replace Tocchet with one of Lavs, Gallant or Beudreau are still around this offseason. Otherwise get rid of all the assistant coaches and get some guys who are hungry to be NHL coaches if there are no other coaches in the same caliber as the three listed above.
Step 2. Replace two or more of Stepan, Goligoski, Demers, Kessel, Sodaberg and replace them with guys who have more grit, jam and get pissed when they lose. I still think everyone listed above have good enough name recognition that a GM will be willing to add them for something. Trade Raanta to help shore up cap too.
Step 3. Re-sign Hall, and give it another go with this young core, new complimentary pieces and a new coach or coaching staff. I have a feeling the results will be better and the team could sneak into the playoffs.

I think this would be a perfect offseason for where we are (outside of winning the lotto). But obviously nothing goes right for this franchise so...

If we can't re-sign Hall you need to move OEL for the best hockey trade for a forward you can get. See if steps 1 and 2 plus this type of shakeup get the team looking better. If kids improve and begin making large leaps in development and the core actually looks like a core you want to keep then keep on letting Chayka steer the ship and see how his later draft picks continue to pan out. If these young guys begin to stall under a new coach and a re-tooled roster blow it all up. Fire Chayka, trade some of the more expendable kids and start gaining draft capital again in hopes to finally draft a 1C.

Not a great spot to be in, but I think we need to let this one ride out another season with some changes up-font.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

What are they suppose to do. Once the game is over, you go to the next one. No use sulking.

I've played rec league sports with guys like that. "God damn I hate losing", yelling at teammates, talking about whom to kick off the team...Those aren't the guys you want. You want guys who are disappointed after a loss, but when they get to the parking lot, on to the next thing. Learn, move on.

 

[Summer Rose]

I've played rec league sports with guys like that. "God damn I hate losing", yelling at teammates, talking about whom to kick off the team...Those aren't the guys you want. You want guys who are disappointed after a loss, but when they get to the parking lot, on to the next thing. Learn, move on.

In beer league, it depends on your objective in playing. At the professional level, I agree though.

You also reminded me that I once reffed for you and I also once told a story about the only time I ever called a fighting major on a single participant and you replied "yeah that guy is a known hothead"

(It was at Ice Den Chandler for the record, if you remember)

 

[BUX7PHX]

Alls I know is that 13 games into the season, Kessel had 9 points. Below his average, but everyone thought that things would ramp up after that.

We are now at 26 points in 53 games. From 0.7 ppg to 0.5 ppg. For being considered the "Kessel whisperer," Tocchet has not done so hot on that front.

 

[cobra427]

Too many under performing guys on the roster. The biggest are OEL/Kessel. They were expected to be our best players. Followed by Schmaltz/Keller as disappointments. How do we have 4 of our top players way under performing? Either Chayka mis evaluated them or Tocc can't get the most out of his players? OEL hasn't played well since Tocc got here. You would think Chayka the analytics guru would have seen or figured out Kessel was benefiting from the players around him in Pitt. Outside of Garland/Chychrun/Kuemper, nobody is having a good year.

The bottom line is, this is what can happen when you have an inexperienced GM hire an unproven coach. I am not sure either of them can evaluate what the problems are in order to fix it this year or in the future.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Too many under performing guys on the roster. The biggest are OEL/Kessel. They were expected to be our best players. Followed by Schmaltz/Keller as disappointments. How do we have 4 of our top players way under performing? Either Chayka mis evaluated them or Tocc can't get the most out of his players? OEL hasn't played well since Tocc got here. You would think Chayka the analytics guru would have seen or figured out Kessel was benefiting from the players around him in Pitt. Outside of Garland/Chychrun/Kuemper, nobody is having a good year.

The bottom line is, this is what can happen when you have an inexperienced GM hire an unproven coach. I am not sure either of them can evaluate what the problems are in order to fix it this year or in the future.

Baffles me that teams, not just the yotes, hire a rookie GM AND coach. It never works out.

 

[Sinurgy]

Alls I know is that 13 games into the season, Kessel had 9 points. Below his average, but everyone thought that things would ramp up after that.

We are now at 26 points in 53 games. From 0.7 ppg to 0.5 ppg. For being considered the "Kessel whisperer," Tocchet has not done so hot on that front.

To be fair the "Kessel Whisper" was always a bunch of bullshit. Kessel was an elite winger way before he ever played for Pitt. Hard to imagine him as elite after this season but the 10 before that he certainly was but you know...Coyotes.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Baffles me that teams, not just the yotes, hire a rookie GM AND coach. It never works out.

RT is not a rookie. He coached 148 games in Tampa and amassed 53 wins.

But to your point, bringing in someone with proven head coaching success seems wise, even if that success was not at the NHL level.

 

[Jakey53]

If I was Meruelo this is what I would do for the offseason and next season.
Step 1. Replace Tocchet with one of Lavs, Gallant or Beudreau are still around this offseason. Otherwise get rid of all the assistant coaches and get some guys who are hungry to be NHL coaches if there are no other coaches in the same caliber as the three listed above.
Step 2. Replace two or more of Stepan, Goligoski, Demers, Kessel, Sodaberg and replace them with guys who have more grit, jam and get pissed when they lose. I still think everyone listed above have good enough name recognition that a GM will be willing to add them for something. Trade Raanta to help shore up cap too.
Step 3. Re-sign Hall, and give it another go with this young core, new complimentary pieces and a new coach or coaching staff. I have a feeling the results will be better and the team could sneak into the playoffs.

I think this would be a perfect offseason for where we are (outside of winning the lotto). But obviously nothing goes right for this franchise so...

If we can't re-sign Hall you need to move OEL for the best hockey trade for a forward you can get. See if steps 1 and 2 plus this type of shakeup get the team looking better. If kids improve and begin making large leaps in development and the core actually looks like a core you want to keep then keep on letting Chayka steer the ship and see how his later draft picks continue to pan out. If these young guys begin to stall under a new coach and a re-tooled roster blow it all up. Fire Chayka, trade some of the more expendable kids and start gaining draft capital again in hopes to finally draft a 1C.

Not a great spot to be in, but I think we need to let this one ride out another season with some changes up-font.

You trade OEL for a forward all you are doing is shuffling the deck chairs, and with Hammer, Gogo and Demers being over the hill, our D will be a bigger issue than it it today. You build a team from the net out. Our D is aging fast, and there are no replacements in site besides Soderstrom.

 

[Jakey53]

I've played rec league sports with guys like that. "God damn I hate losing", yelling at teammates, talking about whom to kick off the team...Those aren't the guys you want. You want guys who are disappointed after a loss, but when they get to the parking lot, on to the next thing. Learn, move on.

Two minutes before or after that picture was taken would show a different story. You have jumped to conclusions over a stupid picture.

 

[zz]

Found this quote about Gallant prior to his firing. Sounds very similar to how players describe Tocchet.

Gallant was named NHL coach of the year for shepherding the Knights to the verge of the Stanley Cup in their first season of existence, his status as one of the league’s most player-friendly coaches well documented. In a poll of NHL players conducted by the Athletic last year, 23 percent said the coach they’d most like to play for (apart from their own) was Gallant, tying him with the Lightning’s John Cooper.
“He’s so approachable, and the way he communicates with us is somewhat like a teammate,” Vegas defenseman Nick Holden said just last month. “You can openly have a conversation with him and speak freely without thinking you’re going to get in trouble or something. I’ve had a couple coaches that are like that."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...replaces-him-with-coach-he-once-called-clown/

Gallant gets fired on Jan 15, Vegas is 8-1-1 over the past 10 games.

Chayka, you suck.

 

[Jamieh]

Found this quote about Gallant prior to his firing. Sounds very similar to how players describe Tocchet.


Gallant gets fired on Jan 15, Vegas is 8-1-1 over the past 10 games.

Chayka, you suck.

You want to hire Deboer?

 

[MIGs Dog]

Don't hire Gallant...he was obviously the problem.

 

[cobra427]

Found this quote about Gallant prior to his firing. Sounds very similar to how players describe Tocchet.


Gallant gets fired on Jan 15, Vegas is 8-1-1 over the past 10 games.

Chayka, you suck.

The difference between Gallant and Tocc, is that Gallant took an expansion team to the NHL finals. No question the Coyotes chances of success would be better with Gallant.

 

[Fatass]

The difference between Gallant and Tocc, is that Gallant took an expansion team to the NHL finals. No question the Coyotes chances of success would be better with Gallant.

Still don’t get why a GM, who trades the future fir Kessel and Hall, refuses to dump a crappy coach for a coach who is a proven winner. Is it about penny pinching?

 

[zz]

My point isn't to hire Gallant. It's that firing an underperforming player-friendly coach can help correct course. Chaika's 'stick to the plan' approach removed any chance of saving the season. Las Vegas had it right.

 

[Foggy1097]

I honestly don’t think that Boudreau is our guy, or that he would be a good fit. Can you imagine he and Chayka interacting and having a strong relationship? I really don’t see it. Bruce is a guy who drinks beers in the locker room after games with players and looks like he eats steak for dinner five nights a week. I don’t see them meshing. Laviolette should be our guy. We have a lot of young impressionable American players in the room, and I don’t doubt that Lavi could get more out of them than Toc is currently. He just got the job to coach Team USA at worlds...he needs to be the guy. If we miss the playoffs, hire Lavi immediately. Like, the next day.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Still don’t get why a GM, who trades the future fir Kessel and Hall, refuses to dump a crappy coach for a coach who is a proven winner. Is it about penny pinching?

This is a little bit of a hard one, because it is almost a microcosm of the game that Kuemper got injured. Coyotes go up 1-0, then give up 2 to Minnesota. Then, we get one back. Followed by another 2 from Minnesota. Within the first four minutes of the 3rd period, we are back to being tied.

Our issue is that we never look so resoundingly awful that we are forced to do some drastic, like pulling Kuemper there. Likewise, we are just good enough that we keep hopes up across all levels, just as how we were always matched with goals. rt was not joking when he stated that we will win 7-1 against Tampa and everything will be good. A win like that gives us some hope, but then we can't capitalize and lose to teams well below them in the standings.

I believe that part of the reason for Tocchet being kept around is that Tocchet probably prepared his interview to highlight some things that Chayka believes to be crucial to success. Therefore, he will coach the team with those basic ideas. I do find it kind of interesting that it was mentioned how Dave Tippett would coach so many different scenarios defensively, but then his offense was very basic and simple (how many times did we hear about keeping the gameplan simple?). It seems like we have the opposite with Tocchet, but I don't know what the thought is.

I have tried my best to convince myself that Tocchet still has a shot at being a good coach, but I am done with that. This team had every single possible good thing happen to it - trades to bring in offense with Soderberg, Kessel, and Hall, minimal coaching staff changes, some players being 2 years into a system. Two very good goaltenders. We had more injuries with a worse team last year, and are actually under-performing last year's team.

Get rid of Tocchet soon.

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

6 wins in 21 games since the TBL loss early in January (1/9). Rocking a roughly 28% for wins since then with no excuses. With this current rate we can expect 4/5 wins for the rest of the season. That's the same type of season he had when he got fired from Tampa Bay 10 years ago.

They don't miss him, neither would the Yotes. This is the best he's gotten as a head coach after 10 years of "learning".

Chayka said that thing about not hoping and all that crap about Strome... why does he sit there and HOPE that this coach can suddenly learn how to do a better job when absolutely no results show otherwise?

This team hasn't improved from last season with a better cast of players and less injuries... his first year was a disaster. No player is excelling (coulda said Kuemper but Tocchet made an oopsy). Didn't even have a freaking ALL Star player since he got the only option injured like an idiot.

Must be nice to suck at your job and get paid 1.5 mil a year and not even have to answer for it...even to be praised, haha! The more I think about it the more angry I get thinking about how nonsensical it is to have kept him this long. Absurd. OH... not to mention he picked freaking MacLean as one of his assistants?! That should have been a huge red flag from the beginning.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

6 wins in 21 games since the TBL loss early in January (1/9). .

This is why he should be fired. This is an unacceptable run of poor performance that should see him get fired. Think about it, 6 wins. Ugh!!!!!

 

[PainForShane]

They don't miss him, neither would the Yotes.

In my view one way to look at how good a player / coach etc is, is how long would he be out of a job if he were fired.

RT... if RT were fired would any other team hire him as a HC right away? Contrast that with Lavi, Gallant, Boudreau, maybe even Babcock if the owner doesn't mind hiring jerks. Not saying they will all be coaching next year but most would agree they all have stronger ability and upside than our man RT.

Contrast this with Scott Allen... after Tocc fired him (after a league leading PK among other things) Hershey made room for him at the end of August, well after most teams had already set their staffs.

Hershey makes pair of coaching changes as Scott Allen and Jared Elenberger join Bears’ coaching staff

Also FWIW Hershey is currently leading their division in points, 2.56 GAA (2nd overall lowest GAA) with neither goalie saving above .910. TheAHL.com | The American Hockey League

 

[PainForShane]

OH... not to mention he picked freaking MacLean as one of his assistants?!

from above, imo a major reason Tocc was able to do well last year despite injuries was bc of our defensive ability, which is bc Allen. And then he fired him. That by itself is enough imo, not counting all of the other very valid points raised by everyone above