Fire Tocchet

[TheLegend]

Yeah meant MacLean. Liked Allen quite a bit. Newell Brown too. That’d be a great duo of assistants right there.

Gotta agree with this one.

 

[Fuhrious]

Nope.... just posting a score. Relevancy being we just played both teams back to back. I figured it to be much closer than that

Mea culpa I suppose, for expecting there to be a relationship between your posting the score and the subject of the thread it was posted in. Had you posted it in the general NHL thread, I doubt I would have thought twice.

 

[Canis Latrans]

It's the system. It asks them to skate full tilt nearly the entire game. There is rarely if ever any calm cycling and their offensive possession time totals must be among the lowest in the league per game. That's a lot of time chasing.

Only a few guys look anything like out of shape. Jakob Chychrun is not hurt because he's out of shape, for instance.

We'll see how much more skating this system entails next season should Tocchet remain. The player tracking should have that data and since it's quite straightforward I'd imagine it'll be publicly available. It's a good point and I'd bet you're right on how that works out for player exertion.

 

[Fuhrious]

Per Russo's interview with Boudreau after his firing...

"The 65-year-old made it clear Sunday that he plans to coach again in the NHL, and has no plans to wait.
“If I could coach yesterday, I’d do it,” Boudreau said. “I get mad, and instead of feeling sorry for myself, I want to get right back into it. In the past, I’ve gotten lucky that I got back into it right away. When I came here four years ago, I hoped this was my last job. I hoped to be here 10 years. It didn’t work out that way, but I know I can still coach.”

 

[87turbobuick]

He is responsible defensively. Knows where to be on the ice and sounds like a surrogate coach out on the ice. Hard to do your own job and the coach's job.

I always hated playing with a guy who thought he was the coach during the game. Listening to the best player was tolerable but an average guy yapping did nothing for me.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I always hated playing with a guy who thought he was the coach during the game. Listening to the best player was tolerable but an average guy yapping did nothing for me.

That's fine. If you want to pick and choose who you want to listen to amongst teammates, that is your prerogative. Yes, it is easier when the "best" player is also the one who can act as a coach on the playing surface. It is rare when that happens.

Remember, if the player is preaching what the coach would be saying from the bench, then where is the issue? It is usually in the form of a reminder, and not that player diagramming the play right there, but you always need players who talk out there and are spreading the message of what is to be done... even if the message is shit...

Also, the average guy yapping is actually likely to be the guy who winds up as the coach. Look at most coaches in the game today. I have not seen many elite players be successful as coaches. Jared Bednar never played in the NHL. Craig Berube had an NHL career as an enforcer/agitator and he averaged about 13 points per season. Bowness got a cup of coffee in the NHL in the late 70s/early 80s. These coaches also have the best records in the Western Conference. But if you were a player and only took your messages from the best players, better hope Gretzky comes back as a coach...

 

[Jakey53]

Yep, quite the humorous situation when your pick from that draft leaves the team...

Aside from that, yes, I understand that we gave up the #7 OA pick and Deangelo for Stepan and Raanta. If anyone in their right mind interprets Stepan as the value of the #7 OA pick, then you don't understand trade value. Deangelo was not going to do anything for us - he was talented, but we wouldn't put up with the attitude.

Stepan was bridging the gap for Strome. Would it have been incorrect for our C depth to be envisioned as something like this:

2017-18 season: Stepan/Strome/Dvorak/Richardson
2018-19 season: Strome/Stepan/Dvorak/Richardson
2019-20 season: Strome/Dvorak/Stepan/Richardson

Guess what? Strome didn't pan out for us. The replacement is Schmaltz, who is not a natural C. Perfect world, Strome develops into a useful player for us and he overtakes Stepan and Dvorak. Because he doesn't do that, Stepan has to play bigger minutes than we may even want him to. Sorry he is the option because Strome didn't work here.

I know why they did the deal, and I understand at the time we needed Stepan. What we thought we got and what we got was two different players. The last two years Stepan has played so far under his pay grade it's crazy. Our C strength is terrible then, and it's terrible now. Thank the good lord DVO is starting to show signs of being a good #2.

 

[Jakey53]

He's laughing all the way to the bank. Earning that wage to be a bottom 6 center, with a superfriend HC that doesn't ask you to actually DO anything but still curates your TOI and utilization to put you in "prestige" slots like PP and OT deployment despite little to no contribution in return.

Guy is living the dream, man... "Help" is the probably the last thing he cares about.

I could not have said it any better.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Per Russo's interview with Boudreau after his firing...

"The 65-year-old made it clear Sunday that he plans to coach again in the NHL, and has no plans to wait.
“If I could coach yesterday, I’d do it,” Boudreau said. “I get mad, and instead of feeling sorry for myself, I want to get right back into it. In the past, I’ve gotten lucky that I got back into it right away. When I came here four years ago, I hoped this was my last job. I hoped to be here 10 years. It didn’t work out that way, but I know I can still coach.”

Hire him! Bring the former Roadrunner back to the valley. Coach for a few years then retire here.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I know why they did the deal, and I understand at the time we needed Stepan. What we thought we got and what we got was two different players. The last two years Stepan has played so far under his pay grade it's crazy. Our C strength is terrible then, and it's terrible now. Thank the good lord DVO is starting to show signs of being a good #2.

But it's okay, because he is getting paid based on what he did in the past and not what we are banking on for the future

I am agreeing with you, but again, it's not like we aren't taking that direction. He used to play over 19 minutes per game the last two seasons. Down to under 18 now. Yet, his possession metrics in the Relative % category have been positive. So, somehow, whatever he is doing on the ice is actually helping possession. This is with his lowest offensive zone starts in his entire career.

I think we are doing exactly what we had planned to do. If Strome pans out, maybe he gets the Keller money starting this year, and Keller get the Schmaltz money. Keller's strong rookie year, combined with Strome just not working paved the way for the money situation to reverse and us have to re-think C options. Stepan was considered a stop-gap that would help these players reach #1 and 2 status in Strome and Dvorak. In the meantime, as things didn't go down that way, and Stepan had to play bigger minutes, Stepan's underlying numbers don't state that he is a horrible liability, as you claim.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Rick Tocchet seems like he'd be a good to great assistant coach.

I don't think he's a good head coach.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Rick Tocchet seems like he'd be a good to great assistant coach.

I don't think he's a good head coach.

He does not come across as a motivator, and I HATE the excuses. In the presser, talk about what YOU are going to do to improve the team, but don't make excuses for why your team played like crap.

 

[Jakey53]

But it's okay, because he is getting paid based on what he did in the past and not what we are banking on for the future

I am agreeing with you, but again, it's not like we aren't taking that direction. He used to play over 19 minutes per game the last two seasons. Down to under 18 now. Yet, his possession metrics in the Relative % category have been positive. So, somehow, whatever he is doing on the ice is actually helping possession. This is with his lowest offensive zone starts in his entire career.

I think we are doing exactly what we had planned to do. If Strome pans out, maybe he gets the Keller money starting this year, and Keller get the Schmaltz money. Keller's strong rookie year, combined with Strome just not working paved the way for the money situation to reverse and us have to re-think C options. Stepan was considered a stop-gap that would help these players reach #1 and 2 status in Strome and Dvorak. In the meantime, as things didn't go down that way, and Stepan had to play bigger minutes, Stepan's underlying numbers don't state that he is a horrible liability, as you claim.

The only reason his TOI is down is because of Hall. Before Hall, Stepan had more TOI than any forward. I didn't say he was a horrible liability, but as a 1C he is a liability. He is a 3C relative to his play. It's obvious last year was more than an off year.

 

[TheLegend]

The only reason his TOI is down is because of Hall. Before Hall, Stepan had more TOI than any forward. I didn't say he was a horrible liability, but as a 1C he is a liability. He is a 3C relative to his play. It's obvious last year was more than an off year.

Interesting take considering Hall is a wing and Stepan is a center. But I get it. Hall coming in forced some line shuffling.

 

[Jakey53]

Interesting take considering Hall is a wing and Stepan is a center. But I get it. Hall coming in forced some line shuffling.

You just don't get it, do you. RT finally wised up and decided DVO is a much better player than beer drinking Stepan and put him with Hall. Garland also finally moved up to play with Hall, and it has resulted in our best line. So, to answer your question, Hall did force line up changes. It forced Stepan to 3C where he belongs.

 

[TheLegend]

You just don't get it, do you. RT finally wised up and decided DVO is a much better player than beer drinking Stepan and put him with Hall. Garland also finally moved up to play with Hall, and it has resulted in our best line. So, to answer your question, Hall did force line up changes. It forced Stepan to 3C where he belongs.

Well you first said Hall was THE reason. Now you say Tocchet “wised up”.

Then again it could also have been the plan all along to make that move when Chayka was able to find a top line winger because they discovered Kessel wasn’t working out there.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Well you first said Hall was THE reason. Now you say Tocchet “wised up”.

Then again it could also have been the plan all along to make that move when Chayka was able to find a top line winger because they discovered Kessel wasn’t working out there.

Thank you for jumping on this grenade. I was going to ask the same questions. Alls I know is that in each year he has been here, regardless of who he is playing with, his relative % in Corsi and Fenwick is positive. That is more relatable to who he is going against and not who he is playing with.

If the argument is that he was our de facto #1, then he was actually doing a good job with regard to possession against other top lines.

 

[rt]

Nevermind. We beat Tampa. He’s good now.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Changing up the lines was magic. Does RT know he can do it DURING a game?

 

[slv]

Coy0tes will play only 1 game in next 7 days or so. It's a great timing for a coach change.
But, obviously, Chayka believes in this group...

 

[Fuhrious]

It bums me out that Chayka isn't camped out on Boudreau's stoop. I can't fathom how he's not an upgrade over RT, short-term and long-term, in every possible way.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Not a chance we make a coaching change with 16 games remaining.

 

[Edenjung]

Can somebody talk to our owner?
maybe he can get chayka to change the coach?
tocchet can be Assistant but please we need a motivator in that room.
Somebody to get those guys give their best.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Can somebody talk to our owner?
maybe he can get chayka to change the coach?
tocchet can be Assistant but please we need a motivator in that room.
Somebody to get those guys give their best.

I think an owner that comes in and makes a couple of big acquisitions, pushing the team to the cap limit, has different expectations than our previous three owners who saw the team as a combination investment and vanity project.

Meruelo expects to win. He'll figure out whether or not he has the right leadership in place. Our fate is sealed for this season, but once it ends I expect changes will be made.

The Florida broadcast crew last night praised the team GMJC built and the great coaching by RT, but if you build what's expected to be a playoff team and don't make it, you must do some critical thinking on the reasons and solutions.

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

I think an owner that comes in and makes a couple of big acquisitions, pushing the team to the cap limit, has different expectations than our previous three owners who saw the team as a combination investment and vanity project.

Meruelo expects to win. He'll figure out whether or not he has the right leadership in place. Our fate is sealed for this season, but once it ends I expect changes will be made.

The Florida broadcast crew last night praised the team GMJC built and the great coaching by RT, but if you build what's expected to be a playoff team and don't make it, you must do some critical thinking on the reasons and solutions.

I just never get when they do interviews and players or etc say that RT is a great coach. Based on what?! Hasn't won AT ALL as a head coach. If they wanna say he's a great assistant coach, then sure... but I can't see any evidence to back up that he's actually a good head coach. Always has missed the playoffs, bad records, underperformance by the team AND individuals.

It's like RT paid a bunch of money to people to go around saying he's a great coach so that other people hear it and say "Oh he must be a great coach, these other guys are saying it". And then it self perpetuates so that he has this reputation as a head coach that he hasn't earned whatsoever.

Sorry to hijack your post on that but that last little part reminded me of something that grinds my gears. I do hope that Meruelo will look into a better staff if he's serious about winning.