Fire Ken Holland

[HockeyGuy1964]

I'm not stating anything that isn't known. Ottawa is a crap team and they were predicted to be one of the worst teams in the nhl. The hyperbole for once is on the other side of the conversation.

They are not "free" points but they are relatively easy points.

Point in case will be when/if Calgary gains 7+ points over their next 5 games versus Ottawa. A rate to which is significantly higher than their current point per game rate without playing Ottawa.

Of course if Ottawa does manage to even split with Calgary I will be one happy camper and I'm not sure that will prove much more than Calgary is terrible too.

I jumped into this conversation just to be on the side of rational thought. I'm not advocating to fire him anymore, I don't think anyone is currently, but before we all start jumping to his defense and pointing at the standings I think we should wait and see.

This is a strange year with a lot of highs and lows.

You were advocating to fire Holland a month into the season & you think you're on the side of rational thought?

WTF? That's one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on here & that's saying something.

Then you follow that up by telling us all not to start jumping to his defense because we should wait & see?

GTFOH.

 

[Aerchon]

You were advocating to fire Holland a month into the season & you think you're on the side of rational thought?

WTF? That's one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on here & that's saying something.

Then you follow that up by telling us all not to start jumping to his defense because we should wait & see?

GTFOH.

Ah... this is the Fire Holland thread that was created by the masses because of the horrendous start to this year. I believe it is you who should gtfoh.

And if those are even close to the dumbest statements you have read on here the only thing that shows is you don't proof read your own posts :-p

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Ah... this is the Fire Holland thread that was created by the masses because of the horrendous start to this year. I believe it is you who should gtfoh.

And if those are even close to the dumbest statements you have read on here the only thing that shows is you don't proof read your own posts

False.

This was a thread created by one dude that was universally mocked by the masses.

Then the hyperbolic part of HFOil jumped on the bandwagon after a few rough games.

Either way, being on board with firing Holland after a season and a 1/4 of work is not rational thought.

 

[Aerchon]

False.

This was a thread created by one dude that was universally mocked by the masses.

Then the hyperbolic part of HFOil jumped on the bandwagon after a few rough games.

Either way, being on board with firing Holland after a season and a 1/4 of work is not rational thought.

There is a very rational healthy debate that Ken Holland should never have been hired in the first place. Old boys club scrapped the interview process to bring in their buddy. You know, because, he was doing an incredible job in Detroit his last 5+ years...

And then less than a year and a half in has made many questionable moves as well.

It is rational to question Holland. It is rational after a massively disappointing preplayoff and first ten games of the season to want to correct what looked/looks like a mistake.

It's incredible that anyone could take your position and claim the other side is being hyperbolic.

There is a very irrational hyperbolic push in this thread to defend someone who has proven little. As I mentioned I don't think anyone is currently advocating him being fired period but there is a very emotional response to silence his critics the moment things start looking good.

I would have been the first in line congratulating Holland if we even managed to win one real playoff series last year. I will be ecstatic if we can manage that feat this year even and will join the preemptive group already showering him in glory and rushing to his defense... Ok, I might be pushing into hyperbolic territory myself with that last bit

I wasn't aware of the origin story of the thread but be that as it may this is the current place for those who are questioning his GM abilities and it is not for his fanboys to come in and tell other to gtfoh that's very irrational, hyperbolic, and just downright wrong.

 

[JordanGalhanth]

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

There is a very rational healthy debate that Ken Holland should never have been hired in the first place. Old boys club scrapped the interview process to bring in their buddy. You know, because, he was doing an incredible job in Detroit his last 5+ years...

And then less than a year and a half in has made many questionable moves as well.

It is rational to question Holland. It is rational after a massively disappointing preplayoff and first ten games of the season to want to correct what looked/looks like a mistake.

It's incredible that anyone could take your position and claim the other side is being hyperbolic.

There is a very irrational hyperbolic push in this thread to defend someone who has proven little. As I mentioned I don't think anyone is currently advocating him being fired period but there is a very emotional response to silence his critics the moment things start looking good.

I would have been the first in line congratulating Holland if we even managed to win one real playoff series last year. I will be ecstatic if we can manage that feat this year even and will join the preemptive group already showering him in glory and rushing to his defense... Ok, I might be pushing into hyperbolic territory myself with that last bit

I wasn't aware of the origin story of the thread but be that as it may this is the current place for those who are questioning his GM abilities and it is not for his fanboys to come in and tell other to gtfoh that's very irrational, hyperbolic, and just downright wrong.

You'd have to be an absolute moron to blame a GM for what happened in the bubble. The trade deadline had come & gone already so the team was set in stone. That's on the players & coaches &, in such unprecedented times, I give them somewhat of a pass.

What changes did you think he should've made, not that he could anyways? I'm sure him telling Tippett to play the 3rd string goalie that was in the minors & also sat for 4 months would've went over great on this board.

Was he supposed to sign a different goalie in that 4 month window where the players were all supposed to stay home? Pretty sure that wasn't even allowed.

Was he supposed to fire the coaching staff after they got them into a prime position for a playoff spot before the world stopped? Let's face it, we actually got screwed somewhat by being made to take part in the play-in series in the first place but yeah, let's fire the coaching staff then.

I realize you're gonna say I'm putting words in your mouth & you never said to fire the coaching staff but I have no clue what you think he could've/should've done heading into the bubble so please regale us all with your rational, well thought out plan.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Ah... this is the Fire Holland thread that was created by the masses because of the horrendous start to this year. I believe it is you who should gtfoh.

And if those are even close to the dumbest statements you have read on here the only thing that shows is you don't proof read your own posts :-p

Only the dumb, impatient masses.

The rational thought group sat on the sidelines quietly laughing at the overboard reactions.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Only the dumb, impatient masses.

The rational thought group sat on the sidelines quietly laughing at the overboard reactions.

Of course, the season is still far from over.

Anything less than one playoff series win this year should be considered a disappointment.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

Ah... this is the Fire Holland thread that was created by the masses because of the horrendous start to this year. I believe it is you who should gtfoh.

And if those are even close to the dumbest statements you have read on here the only thing that shows is you don't proof read your own posts :-p

& FTR I don't consider somebody just saying "Fire Holland" is the dumbest thing I've ever read on here.

Claiming that this statement is somehow "on the side of rational thought" is.

 

[Aerchon]

You'd have to be an absolute moron to blame a GM for what happened in the bubble. The trade deadline had come & gone already so the team was set in stone. That's on the players & coaches &, in such unprecedented times, I give them somewhat of a pass.

What changes did you think he should've made, not that he could anyways? I'm sure him telling Tippett to play the 3rd string goalie that was in the minors & also sat for 4 months would've went over great on this board.

Was he supposed to sign a different goalie in that 4 month window where the players were all supposed to stay home? Pretty sure that wasn't even allowed.

Was he supposed to fire the coaching staff after they got them into a prime position for a playoff spot before the world stopped? Let's face it, we actually got screwed somewhat by being made to take part in the play-in series in the first place but yeah, let's fire the coaching staff then.

I realize you're gonna say I'm putting words in your mouth & you never said to fire the coaching staff but I have no clue what you think he could've/should've done heading into the bubble so please regale us all with your rational, well thought out plan.

& FTR I don't consider somebody just saying "Fire Holland" is the dumbest thing I've ever read on here.

Claiming that this statement is somehow "on the side of rational thought" is.

So... in your opinion the extreme point of saying that wanting Holland fired after a terrible preplayoffs and a straight up brutal start of the season is "the dumbest thing ever posted here" and you are trying to play the rational card?

No offense but that just doesn't make sense. I'll be generous and say your point is at least as ridiculous as any anti Holland rhetoric in this thread. You stand in a glass house throwing stones at will.

And to be fair maybe you didn't know Holland dropped the soap by paying significant assets for Green and AA only to have one injured and the other scatter the line up in an attempt to utilize his skill. Big picture and small Holland stank the place up with his deadline acquisitions and absolutely played a part in the Oilers demise last year.

I honestly don't have the time to break them all down but basically for every good move Holland has made there have been bad moves as well. Only time will tell if his good out weights the bad.

Fans absolutely have the right to be mad after that preplayoff debacle and the start of this season. At Holland, the coach, the players, and the whole organization. It was a terrible way to finish/start two seasons.

@SupremeTeam16 I think we are getting into semantics on that point. Sports are imo about passion at their core. It's absolutely rational to want Holland fired after the end of last season and start of this. At least in terms of hockey fans rational. I think firing Claude Julian with Montreal start to the year is irrational. They are in a playoff spot for cripes sake and turned him. What was our record to start 3 and 6...

 

[Soundwave]

He's not going to be fired anyone who seriously thinks that is an idiot. He hasn't even gotten one coaching change.

It's just in this market with this player, *any* GM will be on the hot seat when expectations are not met and the minimum expectation is playoff team every year given McDavid and Draisaitl. Simple as that.

I will give him a pass for AA because one no one could have forseen the season shutting down like that and secondly Puljujarvi is basically scoring in the top 6 what we hoped AA probably could bring anyway.

And we have Puljujarvi really only because of Holland's patience, most other GMs would've shipped him off for a 3rd round pick already. So that evens out as far as I see it.

Holland does need to address the long term goaltending though. Smith seems to be OK for now, but we need a version of Smith that's 5-7 years younger going forward. Koskinen is not really his fault but is able to play well in a tandem situation with split starts.

 

[Aerchon]

He's not going to be fired anyone who seriously thinks that is an idiot.

It's just in this market with this player, *any* GM will be on the hot seat when expectations are not met and the minimum expectation is playoff team every year given McDavid and Draisaitl. Simple as that.

I will give him a pass for AA because one no one could have forseen the season shutting down like that and secondly Puljujarvi is basically scoring in the top 6 what we hoped AA probably could bring anyway.

And we have Puljujarvi really only because of Holland's patience, most other GMs would've shipped him off for a 3rd round pick already. So that evens out as far as I see it.

Holland does need to address the long term goaltending though. Smith seems to be OK for now, but we need a version of Smith that's 5-7 years younger going forward. Koskinen is not really his fault but is able to play well in a tandem situation with split starts.

No one is saying he will be fired. Heck no one has even said he should be fired in a long while.

Agreed.

A pass on AA is generous imo but to each there own. As I mentioned Holland has done good things as well. At the moment those seem to be balancing.

Agreed. Goaltending is our teams biggest need. I'm glad Smith is playing so well but we need something more than him and Koskinen moving forward.

 

[GOilers88]

There is a very rational healthy debate that Ken Holland should never have been hired in the first place. Old boys club scrapped the interview process to bring in their buddy. You know, because, he was doing an incredible job in Detroit his last 5+ years...

And then less than a year and a half in has made many questionable moves as well.

It is rational to question Holland. It is rational after a massively disappointing preplayoff and first ten games of the season to want to correct what looked/looks like a mistake.

It's incredible that anyone could take your position and claim the other side is being hyperbolic.

There is a very irrational hyperbolic push in this thread to defend someone who has proven little. As I mentioned I don't think anyone is currently advocating him being fired period but there is a very emotional response to silence his critics the moment things start looking good.

I would have been the first in line congratulating Holland if we even managed to win one real playoff series last year. I will be ecstatic if we can manage that feat this year even and will join the preemptive group already showering him in glory and rushing to his defense... Ok, I might be pushing into hyperbolic territory myself with that last bit

I wasn't aware of the origin story of the thread but be that as it may this is the current place for those who are questioning his GM abilities and it is not for his fanboys to come in and tell other to gtfoh that's very irrational, hyperbolic, and just downright wrong.

You know why you don't think Holland has proven much of anything?

Because he's only been on the clock for less than 100 games. In that time the team has gone from a sub .500 club over it's two previous seasons to like 18 games over .500 in little more than one season (I think I posted his record here earlier) with the very unfortunate ending to what would have been an almost assured playoff berth over a very small 4 game sample.

Edit: unless the expectation was that he was going to completely turn this team around in his first season I don't understand how anyone could be really down on him so far. Unless the 4 play-in games negate everything else that is, which I think is silly. I will agree that a couple of his extensions were definitely questionable, but they were all very short term other than Kass. I'm also not overly bothered by the AA/Green TDL acquisitions either, though I can understand why people would be upset at losing two 2nd round picks.

But let's be honest, nobody thinks the Oilers would nail a couple of picks beyond the first round anyways

 

[Panda Bear]

lol @ thread

 

[Daryls Friend]

There should be a Fire Holland, wtf do we have Chiasson, Trade Nurse, Puju's a useless baby, FO Smith, Tippetts an idiot thread.
All rolled into one.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

No one is saying he will be fired. Heck no one has even said he should be fired in a long while.

Agreed.

A pass on AA is generous imo but to each there own. As I mentioned Holland has done good things as well. At the moment those seem to be balancing.

Agreed. Goaltending is our teams biggest need. I'm glad Smith is playing so well but we need something more than him and Koskinen moving forward.

The thread title is literally named fire Ken Holland and it’s like two weeks old.

Reading the first few pages of this thread is like watching an episode of Jerry Springer.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Of course, the season is still far from over.

Anything less than one playoff series win this year should be considered a disappointment.

Yep keep marching them goalposts like they’re light infantry.

 

[Aerchon]

The thread title is literally named fire Ken Holland and it’s like two weeks old.

Reading the first few pages of this thread is like watching an episode of Jerry Springer.

Lol. Funny comparison, however... May support the idea that the pro Holland camp is dipping into my personal stock of hyperbolic beverages.

 

[Daryls Friend]

Yep keep marching them goalposts like they’re light infantry.

Yup. Some posters are oh so predictable

 

[TheNumber4]

Holland is the best GM we’ve had since Slats.

 

[Oilhawks]

Well shit, OP nowhere to be found, it seems.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

The Oilers are 51-33-9 in the regular season since Holland took over. Now look up the previous GMs records.

 

[Zaddy]

There is a big difference between being the best of the best and best of the worst. It's great we are kicking ass and doing well but there is a lot to consider when talking about how good this team "really" is.

Calgary has not played Ottawa yet. The fan base is losing its mind and they have not played as bad as we did prior to playing Ottawa. They really busted us out of our slump.

Calgary plays Ottawa 5 of their next 7 or something like that. It will be interesting to see where they are in the standings after that and where we are.

We have taken great steps to becoming a great team but personally when I watch the games I don't see the Oilers as a power house. More so they are finding ways to get it done against poor teams finding new ways to lose.

 

[JordanGalhanth]

Only two back of the Flames and one back of Vancouver.

Ottawa's not going to be a pushover for much longer.

 

[Seachd]

Old boys club scrapped the interview process to bring in their buddy.

We heard this a lot from people when he was hired, but didn’t we find out he only worked with Nicholson on one team, or something like that? There wasn’t much to show they were “buddies”.