Proposal: Fire Geoff Ward and Brad Treliving Now

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Fig

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Dec 15, 2014
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Yet Todd Button remains the hero for many.

Todd doesn't control the first and second rounds. All those selections at that time were Weisbrod and Feaster.

When Todd was given the reigns, he hit really good pieces in the late rounds. Todd sucks at drafting goalies, but for everything else he's pretty good.
 
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DFF

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Feb 28, 2002
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Todd doesn't control the first and second rounds. All those selections at that time were Weisbrod and Feaster.

When Todd was given the reigns, he hit really good pieces in the late rounds. Todd sucks at drafting goalies, but for everything else he's pretty good.
Good to know feaster does the player scouting

guy did more than I thought
 

BudRobinson53

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Sep 5, 2020
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that is not true. He built a team that can not win

also I think he lost the respect of the players, he plays a hard game on their contracts but went out and wasted money on FAs. They clearly don’t want to play for him

I actually think you're not far off on this. My assertion has always been that Brad is a great GM, who does excel in contract negotiations. Unlike you, I believe he is an asset to the organization, he has strong connections in the business community (no doubt, thanks to his father) but he also comes across as a tough, but fair, type of person. Markstrom didn't choose Calgary over EDM for a few bucks - it was the strength of the organization imo. When Brad's days of GM are over, I think he goes further up the ladder - not outside the org.

But, with regards to FA and signings - I'm sure it does anger the core when you get a guy like Troy Brouwer, then James Neal to come in and they don't give 50%, let alone their 100%, after you've been asked to leave some dollars on the table so they can build a team around you. Then, going back to bringing in Bill Peters, that didn't go well with the players and now the much easier to handle Ward - he hasn't brought results. I do think they are starting to question his vision.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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I actually think you're not far off on this. My assertion has always been that Brad is a great GM, who does excel in contract negotiations. Unlike you, I believe he is an asset to the organization, he has strong connections in the business community (no doubt, thanks to his father) but he also comes across as a tough, but fair, type of person. Markstrom didn't choose Calgary over EDM for a few bucks - it was the strength of the organization imo. When Brad's days of GM are over, I think he goes further up the ladder - not outside the org.

But, with regards to FA and signings - I'm sure it does anger the core when you get a guy like Troy Brouwer, then James Neal to come in and they don't give 50%, let alone their 100%, after you've been asked to leave some dollars on the table so they can build a team around you. Then, going back to bringing in Bill Peters, that didn't go well with the players and now the much easier to handle Ward - he hasn't brought results. I do think they are starting to question his vision.

I tend to agree with this. From a business side of things like contracts, negotiations and cap management, he's been excellent. From a player evaluations and hockey direction side of things, he leaves a lot to be desired.
 
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ESH

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Todd doesn't control the first and second rounds. All those selections at that time were Weisbrod and Feaster.

When Todd was given the reigns, he hit really good pieces in the late rounds. Todd sucks at drafting goalies, but for everything else he's pretty good.
How do you know this
 

Fig

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How do you know this

Interviews. Many discuss and hint significant GM override, or at least a tier of prospect talent that the GM could select as he deemed fit. Part of it is based on GM criteria where the talent order gets reshuffled based on GM demands. You'd often find that certain players drafted in the earlier rounds had a completely different characteristic profile in the later rounds. Button always found ways to get us talent in the late rounds. You can even easily find anecdotal examples of this happening in other orgs. GMs directly involved in the first few rounds and then sitting back in the late rounds is pretty normal for most organizations.

Sutter often overrode to choose good old rough and tumble Canadian boys.

Feaster and Weisbrod were candid about the Jankowski and Sieloff picks. Weisbrod even spoke about how he himself went to scout Jankowski. There's a Button interview out there that I can no longer find in its entirety that discusses his takes on Kucherov and Gaudreau and how he basically had to sweat it out to the 4th round on Gaudreau because of what Feaster was trying to do.

In Treliving's year 1, it seemed obvious that there was a truculence mandate as I swear Burke ran that draft even past the 3rd round where we drafted Hickey vs someone like Point and we were still drafting tall players into the 7th round.

In Treliving's year 2 and later, it seemed he significantly elevated Button's input a lot more. We saw Button hop up on the podium in the earlier rounds as one of the top dogs more often (if we didn't trade those picks), and we also saw the dude gush about the guys we drafted in the top rounds vs kinda meh in previous drafts. It seemed like Treliving would play the draft odds and relied on his scouts for the odds for reaching the NHL.


It's not to say Button and crew do not submit drafting reports for the first two rounds for all these different GMs. But it seems like the GMs could in theory and often did just run out there and select a guy that excited him the most, scouting reports be damned.

Treliving runs his futures in a manner that he calls currency. He also seems to view games played as a bigger evaluation of appropriate use of currency vs potential. This is why he'd do things like trade Knight for Shore, Sieloff for Chiasson, Kanzig for Lack etc. Minor moves, but it's something from nothing.
 

DFF

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Feb 28, 2002
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Beech

Cicc' a porta
Nov 25, 2020
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Ottawa fan coming in Peace

Fire Coach and GM..you guys as well

Montreal: Julian is out, Bergevan is getting more ire on the Mtl site than you can imagine
Ottawa: It has calmed done, but 3 weeks ago, We wanted Dorion and Smith out
Winnipeg: a few weeks ago, GM and coach out
Vancouver: they are talking tanking and GM and coach out

I haven't checked Edmonton and Toronto..although I believe they are somewhat safe.

WAHHH. 7 teams. One victim already 7 guys on the hot seat.
 
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DomBarr

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Apr 7, 2014
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Ottawa fan coming in Peace

Fire Coach and GM..you guys as well

Montreal: Julian is out, Bergevan is getting more ire on the Mtl sight than you can imagine
Ottawa: It has calmed done, but 3 weeks ago, We wanted Dorion and Smith out
Winnipeg: a few weeks ago, GM and coach out
Vancouver: they are talking tanking and GM and coach out

I haven't checked Edmonton and Toronto..although I believe they are somewhat safe.

WAHHH. 7 teams. One victim already 7 guys on the hot seat.
Just to be clear...its the fans that have an issue with the coach..in terms of the Flames Organization itself it is probably
In terms of hotseat temperature it goes:
1 the players this is the 4th coach that had issues with this core of players
2 Treliving its his roster, any issues with the roster fall on his shoulders
3 Coach Ward he is a byproduct and well Treliving has 2 strikes when it comes to coaches...he is out if he gets another one....and his future resides with if Treliving has a future with the Flames.
 

Body Checker

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Aug 11, 2005
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Treliving built this mess. Ward is just a piece of the crap puzzle. Treliving botched the rebuild and here we are. In 2015 we could of had Barzal, Connor or Chabot. In 2018 guys like Farabee, Dellandrea, Denisenko, Ty Smith were there. A proper rebuild also would of put us drafting earlier in ‘16 and ‘17 with chances at players like Matthews, Laine, Dubois, Heiskanen, Makar, Petterson, etc.
 

DCDM

Da Rink Cats
Mar 24, 2008
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Ward is blaming it on the schedule and rittich without mentioning that his team only scored 1 goal in 5 of the last 6 games


this idiot is now a full blown liar
Imagine blaming the guy who shut out the Leafs for 118 minutes and got you 3/4 points against them

f*** off already Ward, every team has to deal with the schedule this year, that’s such a pathetic excuse
 

Fig

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Treliving built this mess. Ward is just a piece of the crap puzzle. Treliving botched the rebuild and here we are. In 2015 we could of had Barzal, Connor or Chabot. In 2018 guys like Farabee, Dellandrea, Denisenko, Ty Smith were there. A proper rebuild also would of put us drafting earlier in ‘16 and ‘17 with chances at players like Matthews, Laine, Dubois, Heiskanen, Makar, Petterson, etc.

Rebuilds are rarely GM mandates. They're heavily ownership influenced. Yes, in hindsight maybe we should have rebuilt proper.

But... No there was a playoff mandate in 2015. Then, likely a mandate to accelerate the rebuild based on the previous years playoffs results.

Those were mandates outside of his control. The mandates created a situation where the foundation of the building was bad from the get go. No matter what Treliving builds the on that foundation (ie: even after getting autonomy) likely catches up to it sooner or later.

The more I think about this, the less I blame any about individual/group. I am thinking it wasn't because of a bad idea or no ideas, but maybe too many ideas. We have a GM, 3 AGM and Maloney as VP ops. If anything maybe it's too many ideas. Too much high level management. Too much owner input. To many different coaching systems... Like tripping on each other doing a three legged race.

Maybe... I dunno.
 
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