Fire Deboer

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jarr92

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May 7, 2013
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This point has really opened my eyes to this board. People can be like "we need to fire PDB because xyz this is all his fault, the team performs in spite of him!" then turn around and suggest guys like Hitchcock or Yeo.

All the sudden I'm questioning if PDB is actually that big of a problem and instead it's just the players complete lack of ability to execute. I said it before but it's not Petes systems to throw suicide passes up the middle of hte ice in the D zone or to pass on a 3 on 1 to Thornton or get super cute at the blue line and turn the puck over


Not sure if you’re referring to me when referencing Hitchcock, but I’m not suggesting he would be better the PDB. As I stated in the original message, at best it would be a lateral move.. PDB has a great playoff win %.

Opposition defenses are cheating more then ever to the point, and the Sharks have not countered that or altered their scheme at all. In addition to the vets all collectively doing terribly, it is definitely also a system thing.

Watch how defense is played against other teams, it’s a bit different to how the Sharks are played for the most part.

That being said, I hope PDB can make the appropriate changes to get it going the other direction.
 
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Paka Ono

Pro Ice Girl Scout
Jun 29, 2011
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Part of me feels that Boughner was hired to serve as DW's Plan B. Time to enact Plan B
 

Anomie2029

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Oct 10, 2013
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Melbourne, Australia
This point has really opened my eyes to this board. People can be like "we need to fire PDB because xyz this is all his fault, the team performs in spite of him!" then turn around and suggest guys like Hitchcock or Yeo.

All the sudden I'm questioning if PDB is actually that big of a problem and instead it's just the players complete lack of ability to execute. I said it before but it's not Petes systems to throw suicide passes up the middle of hte ice in the D zone or to pass on a 3 on 1 to Thornton or get super cute at the blue line and turn the puck over

It's the coaches job to have a look at these issues and rectify them. So let's use the examples you've used.

- Suicide passes up the middle of the ice - Why are otherwise good NHL players resorting to this play? Is it because the PDB's system is being easily defended? One of the biggest issues with PDB is that the game plan doesn't (or can't) adapt to the opposition. What happens when a system is defended or isn't working? Players will resort to think on the fly. This leads to bad turnovers. The system is also meaning one of the D is tracking up high on the breakout, so when the turnover occurs there is little coverage to defend.

- Passing on the three on one - Absolutely the coach doesn't make the team do this. But what was the reaction? All players involved didn't appear to be admonished in any kind of way. I know lower levels where players would be benched a shift or two for that. The Sharks just went through the motions. The coaches job is to discourage this in any way they can, yet I saw no response. So why would players change their behaviour?
 

Trocity

Registered User
Nov 24, 2016
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I grew up in Ottawa in a household of Sens fans, so they are kind of my second team. I would very much welcome Guy Boucher over PDB, in a heartbeat. When Ottawa made their run in 2017, yes, Anderson was at his best, but that team played a real solid defensive system.
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,205
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Whidbey Island, WA
It's the coaches job to have a look at these issues and rectify them. So let's use the examples you've used.

- Suicide passes up the middle of the ice - Why are otherwise good NHL players resorting to this play? Is it because the PDB's system is being easily defended? One of the biggest issues with PDB is that the game plan doesn't (or can't) adapt to the opposition. What happens when a system is defended or isn't working? Players will resort to think on the fly. This leads to bad turnovers. The system is also meaning one of the D is tracking up high on the breakout, so when the turnover occurs there is little coverage to defend.

- Passing on the three on one - Absolutely the coach doesn't make the team do this. But what was the reaction? All players involved didn't appear to be admonished in any kind of way. I know lower levels where players would be benched a shift or two for that. The Sharks just went through the motions. The coaches job is to discourage this in any way they can, yet I saw no response. So why would players change their behaviour?

I know I am oversimplifying it but with the number players struggling right now, I would believe the issue is one of the two:

- The players are not executing the system.
- The system is not working because it is too risk averse.

Either way, it is on the coaching. And PDB alluding to the fact that the kids are still acclimatizing to the NHL, though true, seems to make matters look even worse because the likes of Bergmann, Ferraro have stood out more than most of our vets. We could go on a 15 game winning streak starting tomorrow and I would still not have faith with this team against Vegas or other playoff teams.
 
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HeiHouHauki

Registered User
Jul 22, 2018
35
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I know it isn't going to happen, but i'd love to see Jukka Jalonen from finnish national team to coach The Sharks. I have zero faith left in PDB and Jalonen has done very good job in tournaments with very limited amount of talent.

Must ask how did you end up on Jalonen?

You're right. Jalonen has won in Liiga with a team which wasnt counted as a contender by the material. And 2019 world cup team was very weak by the players.

Im pretty sure that there is only two coaches who has won World cup and U20 world cup. Jalonen and Babcock.

Jalonen contract has a clouse that if there is a deal in NHL he is free to leave right away. So there has been at least somekind of talks, I believe those kind of clauses are rare in europe?
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,205
8,923
Whidbey Island, WA
The more I think about it, the more I want PDB fired. But also, the less likely I think that is going to happen mid-season. I think a 1st round exit or missing the playoffs will precipitate an off-season firing. I think we need to be in a very poor state by mid-season (last 3 in the standings) that will bring about a PDB firing in season. Even then, like others have said, I expect Boughner filling in the position till the end of the season.

DW's loyalty his coaches exceeds that to his players and I am not sure that is a good thing. He kept TMac around too long and now is doing the same with PDB. Last night I was wondering about who the longest tenured GM in the league is WITHOUT having won a Stanley Cup in that stretch? DW has to be up there.
 

hohosaregood

Banned
Sep 1, 2011
32,281
12,447
A European coach like Jalonen would be interesting but I'm doubtful of the Sharks going after him. There was some speculation that Rickard Gronberg could be the first European coach to be an HC in the NHL since 2001 but even he hasn't gotten much of a look either. I'd definitely look overseas but this is the NHL we're talking about and going outside of the box is rare.

Why Rikard Grönborg could be NHL's first European head coach since 2001 - Sportsnet.ca
 
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WSS11

Registered User
Oct 7, 2009
6,043
5,058
Me before the season:

No good replacements. Let’s see how Deboer handles this group

Me now:

upload_2019-10-10_11-17-38.gif
 

SjMilhouse

Registered User
Jul 18, 2012
2,119
2,439
It's the coaches job to have a look at these issues and rectify them. So let's use the examples you've used.

- Suicide passes up the middle of the ice - Why are otherwise good NHL players resorting to this play? Is it because the PDB's system is being easily defended? One of the biggest issues with PDB is that the game plan doesn't (or can't) adapt to the opposition. What happens when a system is defended or isn't working? Players will resort to think on the fly. This leads to bad turnovers. The system is also meaning one of the D is tracking up high on the breakout, so when the turnover occurs there is little coverage to defend.

- Passing on the three on one - Absolutely the coach doesn't make the team do this. But what was the reaction? All players involved didn't appear to be admonished in any kind of way. I know lower levels where players would be benched a shift or two for that. The Sharks just went through the motions. The coaches job is to discourage this in any way they can, yet I saw no response. So why would players change their behaviour?
I dont think Kane needs to be benched to understand that it was a dumb play. No one at this time of year is playing perfect hockey and it takes a few games for people to get back "into" it so to speak. It's boneheaded plays that are costing the team. If we are 15 games in and this is all still an issue, I'll say it's on the coach
 

RageQuit77

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
5,200
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Finland, Kotka
On Jukka Jalonen. He is the top Finnish hockey coach. He knows the game and tactics. His best abilities are in personnel management, sort of genius in that aspect; how to build a coherent unit. He is fluent in English, and generally 'no-BS' type coach with apparent skills in empathy. He is thinker, and speaker (his secondary job is highly paid public speaker on leadership, personnel management, etc. issues mostly for business corps, and organisations.)

He is willing to move to NA and ready to accept a post of assistant coach (as he is realist, obviously), under a head coach who wants work with him (Personal chemistry and trust).

Personally I think he would be excellent option for a team that is starting to rebuild, as Jukka is kind of whole-sale-system-constructions-guy of hockey which he has demonstrated multiple times already, currently being pretty much highest vocal authority in the Finnish National Hockey: NT Head Coach, ofc. (currently ongoing renaissance of Finnish Hockey and plentifully over pouring pipeline of top prospects have his big finger print of making too (both theoretically and practically).

Anyway, he would need year or two of acclimatisation to NHL for him to successfully absorb necessary local ropes and cultural things, but don't think that anyone need to teach him about the profession particularly - He is already more like a Didact than Pedagogue when it comes to hockey coaching.

I have no single doubt that he wouldn't be successful if given an opportunity.
 

tealzamboni

Registered User
Mar 3, 2007
1,816
1,226
I can appreciate some of the moves PDB's making. The recent lineups are classic PDB (in a good way).
Kane - Hertl - Labanc
Marleau - Couture - Meier
Sorensen - Thornton - Goodrow
Sorensen/Gregor/Radil - Gambrell - Melker

But, I do worry that classic PDB (in a bad way) will happen in the playoffs.
line 1 nullified because Reaves is matched up against Kane and Hertl targeted, which forces a fight
line 2 is intact, but can't out duel the VGK 1 and 2 without playing heavy minutes
line 3 is ineffective because Thornton has no one who can finish at a high level
line 4 can provide a spark with speed, but PDB probably plays them 5 min

So, on this front, PDB is probably still hoping that he gets more PP chances. Though, somehow I doubt Reaves will >= 1 instigator penalty per game.


As for the defense, I think Boughner's trying to get them into a tighter box. They are clustered together more in their end and have had more controlled breakouts. I think that's a good thing because while Burns and Karlsson are all world, the goal should be to set them up to create chances, not to put them on an island and hope they create chances.

However, there's a lot of work to do there. Even though they are bunched up, they play soft and are slow to clamp down. I suspect this is PDB's aggressive forecheck influence getting players out of position. Hopefully, Boughner figures something out.
 

Anomie2029

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
3,860
4,023
Melbourne, Australia
I think the team has played better as of late, and a few statements from PDB (and his subsequent treatment of Gregor and Ferraro) have actually surprised me in a positive manner.
There is still rubbish in his thinking (Prout will be in when he gets back because 'physical'),but there has been some signs of improvement.
 
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