Fire Colliton

[Nellie Fox]

.... or do one or more of the above need to be shopped to do a proper rebuild? Money talks and Hawks have none, at least none that they can spend.

Why would they waive their no-movement clauses? They get those contracts for a reason; they would want to be handsomely rewarded to waive them.

 

[Brightwing]

Why would they waive their no-movement clauses? They get those contracts for a reason; they would want to be handsomely rewarded to waive them.

Exactly. Remember when Friedman reported Seabrook had been asked to waive and Seabrook denied it? I don't think Friedman makes shit up so there was some smoke there.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Well, for Seabrook, if they tell him he'll be sitting in the press box or in the AHL, he may want to waive it if he really believes he "Can still help some NHL team"

 

[Naster Okan]

Yeah, especially ones we already let go of, let someone else overpay, and then a few years later we gave up what two 2nd rounders to bring him back? Christ.

MB owes Stan a favor.

 

[Nellie Fox]

Well, for Seabrook, if they tell him he'll be sitting in the press box or in the AHL, he may want to waive it if he really believes he "Can still help some NHL team"

A player with a no-movement clause cannot be sent to the AHL without his consent. No movement means no movement. No trade, no waivers, no loans, no minor-league assignments.
Seabrook can be a healthy scratch, but that's all.

 

[Hawkaholic]

A player with a no-movement clause cannot be sent to the AHL without his consent. No movement means no movement. No trade, no waivers, no loans, no minor-league assignments.
Seabrook can be a healthy scratch, but that's all.

Right, forgot about that. Still, sitting in the press box every night isn't going to fly with Seabrook.

 

[Illinihockey]

Laviolette off the board

 

[BobbyJet]

Why would they waive their no-movement clauses? They get those contracts for a reason; they would want to be handsomely rewarded to waive them.

For the opportunity to join a team that is a serious contender with a chance to win another Cup. It's a business but it's also a game ... and it isn't much fun playing for Hawks these days and being on the sidelines in the postseason.

 

[LordKOTL]

Well, for Seabrook, if they tell him he'll be sitting in the press box or in the AHL, he may want to waive it if he really believes he "Can still help some NHL team"

And on the flipside, if his wife says no and wants him to stay in-town as much as possible, what then?

I get the idea of guys who want to play and will waive if they won't get the icetime. I also get the idea that there's more to a decision like that for an established player (especially family life).

The other side that's a possibility might be petty revenge (and yes, this is pure speculation--so expect this as an E5 shortly). I know I'm not the only one who devolves to this level of b@stardry, but it's plausible that if Seabs doesn't get the icetime he thinks he's earned and feels like Stan/JC are pulling a Pullford on him, he could sit on his NMC and severely handcuff Stan from the pressbox.

 

[Hawkaholic]

And on the flipside, if his wife says no and wants him to stay in-town as much as possible, what then?

I get the idea of guys who want to play and will waive if they won't get the icetime. I also get the idea that there's more to a decision like that for an established player (especially family life).

The other side that's a possibility might be petty revenge (and yes, this is pure speculation--so expect this as an E5 shortly). I know I'm not the only one who devolves to this level of b@stardry, but it's plausible that if Seabs doesn't get the icetime he thinks he's earned and feels like Stan/JC are pulling a Pullford on him, he could sit on his NMC and severely handcuff Stan from the pressbox.

Well, we already have that happening right now. He is severely handicapping this team in his current situation.

 

[Mrfenn92]

And on the flipside, if his wife says no and wants him to stay in-town as much as possible, what then?

I get the idea of guys who want to play and will waive if they won't get the icetime. I also get the idea that there's more to a decision like that for an established player (especially family life).

The other side that's a possibility might be petty revenge (and yes, this is pure speculation--so expect this as an E5 shortly). I know I'm not the only one who devolves to this level of b@stardry, but it's plausible that if Seabs doesn't get the icetime he thinks he's earned and feels like Stan/JC are pulling a Pullford on him, he could sit on his NMC and severely handcuff Stan from the pressbox.

If he can’t accept him current status on the team as a below average bottom pair defender and a 7th dman press box commander. Then the hawks should as much as it sucks buy him out or if he is willing to bet on himself in the open market mutual termination of his contract. Don’t see that happening. Not giving up millions and nor should he.

 

[LordKOTL]

Well, we already have that happening right now. He is severely handicapping this team in his current situation.

I don't disagree. I think in this case the 'hawks do need to try to work with him with respect to the situation. VVV

If he can’t accept him current status on the team as a below average bottom pair defender and a 7th dman press box commander. Then the hawks should as much as it sucks buy him out or if he is willing to bet on himself in the open market mutual termination of his contract. Don’t see that happening. Not giving up millions and nor should he.

I don't disagree. But I do think the 'hawks need to work with him and not go all Pullford on him. If they bought him out now it doesn't fix anything in the here-and now. in 2021 and 2023 a buyout would count about 6.5M against the cap...and that only helps us ~200k going into next season.

I think he'll get the chance at preseason to show whether or not he's useless.

If he isn't playing well then the 'hawks need to explain his options. He likley won't have a regular roster slot. He can waive his NMC and test the market (and clear it at home if indeed his wife is really keen on staying in Chicago and against him being traded). He can retire (not a good option for him), or we can try to LTIR him. Buying out doesn't help the team much more than pressboxing him right now and in 2023. But if he and the 'hawks try playing hardball with each other it's gonna hurt.

 

[HawksBeerFan]

How does this guy still have a job? Absolutely unreal.

Every second longer he's leading our team is a second wasted.

 

[hockeydoug]

I think the recent moves will put JC in a stronger position. He's going to lose alot, but I think there are going to be fewer "black hole" shifts given the added experience of the young players and the better defensive depth coming on board.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I think the recent moves will put JC in a stronger position. He's going to lose alot, but I think there are going to be fewer "black hole" shifts given the added experience of the young players and the better defensive depth coming on board.

I don't think it matters really. Colliton is experimenting with this weird defensive system he learned in Sweden and while it might work on the bigger ice against lesser talent, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work in the NHL. I'll take Versteeg's word for it. The Hawks D fell off of a cliff when JC got hired and it hasn't really gotten better.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I don't think it matters really. Colliton is experimenting with this weird defensive system he learned in Sweden and while it might work on the bigger ice against lesser talent, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work in the NHL. I'll take Versteeg's word for it. The Hawks D fell off of a cliff when JC got hired and it hasn't really gotten better.

Yea, this is Versteeg’s analysis of it. Do we know that is fact?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Yea, this is Versteeg’s analysis of it. Do we know that is fact?

The Hawks have been the worst defensive team in the NHL for 2 years running. That enough evidence for you?

If you look at the names on the D(while realizing what Keith is at 37) I don't think they have the worst D in the NHL. They're probably in the average to below average range but not absolutely awful. That being said, I don't know if not having a top pair D for half the games(Keith's performance from game to game is widely variable. He can go from Norris Keith to Seabrook bad and anywhere in between over the course of the season. You have no idea what you're getting from him from game to game) Really makes them a bottom 5 unit. However, I think there are a bunch of teams with worse talent on D. (Ottawa and Detroit are obvious)

 

[RememberTheRoar]

The Hawks have been the worst defensive team in the NHL for 2 years running. That enough evidence for you?

If you look at the names on the D(while realizing what Keith is at 37) I don't think they have the worst D in the NHL. They're probably in the average to below average range but not absolutely awful. That being said, I don't know if not having a top pair D for half the games(Keith's performance from game to game is widely variable. He can go from Norris Keith to Seabrook bad and anywhere in between over the course of the season. You have no idea what you're getting from him from game to game) Really makes them a bottom 5 unit. However, I think there are a bunch of teams with worse talent on D. (Ottawa and Detroit are obvious)

No, that doesn’t prove he’s running a Swedish system at all. What the f***?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

No, that doesn’t prove he’s running a Swedish system at all. What the f***?

Holy f***, our brains were in two completely different places. I thought you were asking if it was definitely bad, not is it some weird Swedish system? haha.
I think both are likely true. Versteeg played in Europe and went to a camp with Colliton, so......That's what we have to run on at the moment. I think the results speak for themselves on whether or not it's bad.

 

[coolhand]

I don't think it matters really. Colliton is experimenting with this weird defensive system he learned in Sweden and while it might work on the bigger ice against lesser talent, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work in the NHL. I'll take Versteeg's word for it. The Hawks D fell off of a cliff when JC got hired and it hasn't really gotten better.

The Hawks D was bad under Q as well for a year before he got fired. JC hasn't seemed to make it any better. Is it the system or the players?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

The Hawks D was bad under Q as well for a year before he got fired. JC hasn't seemed to make it any better. Is it the system or the players?

The talent on D has become noticeably better than it was in 17-18.
That team had Keith, Murphy and a whole lot of crap on D.
Kempny was there but Q ratf***ed him.

Defensemen that year included Rutta, Gustafsson, a rapidly declining Seabrook, and AHL fodder like Dahlstrom and Forsling.

 

[coolhand]

The talent on D has become noticeably better than it was in 17-18.
That team had Keith, Murphy and a whole lot of crap on D.
Kempny was there but Q ratf***ed him.

I really think it was Q's system of keep them to the outside, don't be physical and don't screen the goalie. Each D stood at the post, waited for the goalie to make a save and try and get the rebound. What they didn't do was clear the guy from in front who usually got to the puck before they did. Meanwhile, the forwards dogged it coming back and didn't win any board battles or block any shots.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I really think it was Q's system of keep them to the outside, don't be physical and don't screen the goalie. Each D stood at the post, waited for the goalie to make a save and try and get the rebound. What they didn't do was clear the guy from in front who usually got to the puck before they did. Meanwhile, the forwards dogged it coming back and didn't win any board battles or block any shots.

It worked when they were winning Cups.

 

[coolhand]

It worked when they were winning Cups.

I think during those years they were more aggressive on D. Later on they went soft, or teams got faster and figured out how to beat the system.

 

[BobbyJet]

The Hawks D was bad under Q as well for a year before he got fired. JC hasn't seemed to make it any better. Is it the system or the players?

... or the culture?

It's quite easy to instill a country club; not so easy to eliminate it.