Fire Babcock Thread - Part II

[Frk It]

Lets try and really shake up the lines.

Tatar Datsyuk Franzen
Zetterberg Weiss Alfredsson
Abdelkader Andersson Tootoo
Cleary Miller Bertuzzi

Kronwall Kindl
Ericsson Smith
Quincey DD

Datsyuk gets two guys who like to shoot and some added speed from Tatar.
Weiss gets two guys who like to shoot and hopefully Z can help turn his game around.
The third line can crash and bang and hopefully score a few with their pressure.
The fourth is full of veterans who are top6 guys in the coaches eyes so they should dominate over 4th liners.

The hope is Datsyuk gets Tatar and Franzen going and Zetterberg gets Weiss and Alffie going.

On D the top pairing will be two all around guys, the second has Ericsson acting as the pure defensive guy for Smith and the third pairing has DD to cover up defensively for Quincey.

I'm sure there are holes in here but let's try something and stick with it longer then two periods.

Those lines are something I would never think of... But I would be very interested to see that team play for a couple games.

I like the thought process there.

 

[probertrules24]

Those lines are something I would never think of... But I would be very interested to see that team play for a couple games.

I like the thought process there.

Just trying to think outside Babcock's dodecahedron.

 

[BF3]

Fire everything!

Or something.

Roster = Holland, Lines = Babcock.

Stop mixing and make some damn sensible decisions.

Top 6 guys - Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Weiss, Tatar, Nyquist, Alfie
Bottom 6 guys - Cleary, Bert, Sammy, Tootoo, Miller, Andersson, Abby, Helm, Eaves

Don't mix the two groups. Dump two of the bottom 6 guys. Any pairing that isn't Smith-Quincey for D.

Based on something that could actually happen in real life:

Forwards (14):
Franzen-Dats-Tatar
Z-Weiss-Alfie
Nyquist-Andersson-Bert
Cleary-Helm-Abby
Sit: Miller, Sammy
Waived: Tootoo, Eaves

Defense (7):
Kronwall-Ericsson
Kindl-Quincey
DD-Smith
Lashoff

Goalies (2):
Howard
Gustavsson

I don't know why this is not possible, pretty sure this works with cap.

 

[golffuul]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/10/mike_babcock_on_slumping_red_w.html

"If I'm coming in from the outside and watched our team play, I'€™d say they didn'€™t have a coach. That hurts my feelings.'' -- Mike Babcock

Just thought it was kinda funny.

I always wonder about these "Self-evaluating" quotes and how much attention is really paid to them.

You also have to wonder if he's being at all stretched too thin by the Canadian Olympic job, or at the very least not having 100% focus towards his paying job. Wasn't the last time this (the Olympics) happened also a fairly unfocused year that resulted in us getting our butts in gear by the end of the season and then that magical comeback against the Coyotes only to have wasted everything in the tank, when facing San Jose? And that was with Lidstrom and Rafalski.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Just trying to think outside Babcock's dodecahedron.

Your line up makes sense and seems to have a rhyme and reson behind it, not just abby is big so he's top 6

 

[Peter Tosh]

The need of grinders and size on every line comes from dump and chase hockey. Skill and puck posession didn't use to require this. People always kept on complaining Wings where too old, slow and soft. But the team dominated the league.

The question is wheter skill and puck posession is a possible strategy in the cap era or not, especially whithout Lidström. If not, then Babcock is probably a good choice as coach. If it is possible, i would rather see a coach who can promote a more classic Red Wings style of play. Three scoring lines and one grind line.

Tatar-D-Alfie
Helm-Z-Nyq
Franz-Weiss-Bert/Cleary
Miller-Andy-Abs

 

[Johnz96*]

The need of grinders and size on every line comes from dump and chase hockey. Skill and puck posession didn't use to require this. People always kept on complaining Wings where too old, slow and soft. But the team dominated the league.

The question is wheter skill and puck posession is a possible strategy in the cap era or not, especially whithout Lidström. If not, then Babcock is probably a good choice as coach. If it is possible, i would rather see a coach who can promote a more classic Red Wings style of play. Three scoring lines and one grind line.

Tatar-D-Alfie
Helm-Z-Nyq
Franz-Weiss-Bert/Cleary
Miller-Andy-Abs

With the much bigger goalie equipment most goals scored these days are in tight and are what was known as garbage goals (tips, rebounds, goal mouth scrambles...).
If the goalie can see the puck he will square off to the shooter leaving nothing to shoot at.
I think top scoring lines are most effective With a bigger body on them that can effectively go to the net. A bigger body will obscure more of the goalies view, has better reach for puck scrambles in front of the net and is harder to move.
With that being said a smaller body who is a better player is always the better choice.

 

[Heaton]

The need of grinders and size on every line comes from dump and chase hockey. Skill and puck posession didn't use to require this. People always kept on complaining Wings where too old, slow and soft. But the team dominated the league.

The question is wheter skill and puck posession is a possible strategy in the cap era or not, especially whithout Lidström. If not, then Babcock is probably a good choice as coach. If it is possible, i would rather see a coach who can promote a more classic Red Wings style of play. Three scoring lines and one grind line.

Tatar-D-Alfie
Helm-Z-Nyq
Franz-Weiss-Bert/Cleary
Miller-Andy-Abs

While the players I'm about to mention where better no question, the Wings took off in the late 90's when guys like Lapointe, McCarty, Kocur, Maltby etc... played more. Guys like Lapointe and McCarty routinely played in the top 6. They're obviously more skilled than the likes of Cleary and Abdelkader, but their grinder qualities were used quite often.

 

[Chance on Chance]

While the players I'm about to mention where better no question, the Wings took off in the late 90's when guys like Lapointe, McCarty, Kocur, Maltby etc... played more. Guys like Lapointe and McCarty routinely played in the top 6. They're obviously more skilled than the likes of Cleary and Abdelkader, but their grinder qualities were used quite often.

And thats the big thing, also the last year Lapointe and McCarty played on the team they were 32 and probably didnt play top 6 then. We have 34 Cleary playing top 6. As for abby, it hasnt worked and I dont know how many more games he needs to be in the top 6 before he gets moved

 

[Brandel*]

i cant believe you guys can even consider the possibility of holland firing babcock when he can't even let go of ufa players

 

[InjuredChoker]

i cant believe you guys can even consider the possibility of holland firing babcock when he can't even let go of ufa players

he let flip and hudler walk..

 

[skinneh]

Fire everything!

Or something.

Roster = Holland, Lines = Babcock.

Stop mixing and make some damn sensible decisions.

Top 6 guys - Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Weiss, Tatar, Nyquist, Alfie
Bottom 6 guys - Cleary, Bert, Sammy, Tootoo, Miller, Andersson, Abby, Helm, Eaves

Don't mix the two groups. Dump two of the bottom 6 guys. Any pairing that isn't Smith-Quincey for D.

Why can't Babs figure this out.. Realgud does not equal top 6!

 

[Winger98]

With the much bigger goalie equipment most goals scored these days are in tight and are what was known as garbage goals (tips, rebounds, goal mouth scrambles...).
If the goalie can see the puck he will square off to the shooter leaving nothing to shoot at.
I think top scoring lines are most effective With a bigger body on them that can effectively go to the net. A bigger body will obscure more of the goalies view, has better reach for puck scrambles in front of the net and is harder to move.
With that being said a smaller body who is a better player is always the better choice.

And more obstruction creeping in. Maybe it's just bugging me more for whatever reason, but it seems like it gets a bit worse every year, and I'm seeing a lot of blatant holds and grabs around the league so far. If it's just going to keep getting worse, we're going to need bigger bodies to get through it, regardless of skill level.

 

[lilidk]

This is long , Olympic season .Looks like they try to be somewhere in the middle . They will play much better hockey after Olympics. So I think it is absolutely not time to press panic button. It is all about play-off and believe me or not , this team will be ready

 

[Bench]

And more obstruction creeping in. Maybe it's just bugging me more for whatever reason, but it seems like it gets a bit worse every year, and I'm seeing a lot of blatant holds and grabs around the league so far. If it's just going to keep getting worse, we're going to need bigger bodies to get through it, regardless of skill level.

Is this Babcock's rationale? Particularly in the playoffs.

Speaking of, I'm totally okay with obstruction creeping back in to a degree. And it basically cements Ericsson as a viable defender for his career, because the dude gets away with more holds than I can count. I mentioned it last playoffs, but he was throwing guys along the boards.

 

[detredWINgs]

IF Holland fires Babcock, it won't be during the season.

And Holland won't fire Babcock if he brings us back to playoffs OR Team Canada wins gold. Hell, even if we don't make the playoffs, I think Babcock's job is safe so long as Team Canada makes it to the championship game. Holland doesn't have the balls to fire a successful Team Canada coach a few months after that success comes to fruition.

Not to mention, firing Babcock is going to put the spotlight on Kenny. And I don't think Kenny has the ego to think that what's wrong with this team lies primarily with Babcock.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

IF Holland fires Babcock, it won't be during the season.

And Holland won't fire Babcock if he brings us back to playoffs OR Team Canada wins gold. Hell, even if we don't make the playoffs, I think Babcock's job is safe so long as Team Canada makes it to the championship game. Holland doesn't have the balls to fire a successful Team Canada coach a few months after that success comes to fruition.

Not to mention, firing Babcock is going to put the spotlight on Kenny. And I don't think Kenny has the ego to think that what's wrong with this team lies primarily with Babcock.

Lucky for him and those of us not on the Windsor side of things, I don't think he has to worry about this dreaded Team Canada success you're speaking of.

Think Russia and Sweden play for the Gold at the Olympics.

 

[Henkka]

So, Fire Babcock, promote Blashill and then what?

Bring the kids up...

and then notice that we can't do that because of the cap situation.

 

[Winger98]

Is this Babcock's rationale? Particularly in the playoffs.

Speaking of, I'm totally okay with obstruction creeping back in to a degree. And it basically cements Ericsson as a viable defender for his career, because the dude gets away with more holds than I can count. I mentioned it last playoffs, but he was throwing guys along the boards.

Maybe. That's a helluva long game to play, but we've seen Wings teams go into the playoffs with a finesse/skill game only to have the ice leveled by an assortment of hooks, holds, etc. It's something that I can live with if we're winning with it, but have a hard time watching when two other teams are involved. I found the Boston/Pittsburgh series last year unwatchable for long stretches because it was just so ugly from time to time.

 

[sarcastro]

They have to wait until the dead wood finishes rotting and the sprouts are ready for prime time IMO. Last year was nice, but it was a miracle of coaching genius that that group was able to do what it (almost) did.

Jurco, Mantha, Sproul, Ouellet, Nyquist, Tatar. Those guys are the keys to the future, and most of them aren't ready yet. The guys that are ready, add more undersized skill to a team that's already got too much of it.

Babcock is 2nd best coach this team has ever had and dumping him would be immensely foolish. Even if I don't like the stuff he does sometimes.

 

[SimplySolace]

They have to wait until the dead wood finishes rotting and the sprouts are ready for prime time IMO. Last year was nice, but it was a miracle of coaching genius that that group was able to do what it (almost) did.

What? More like, perfectly timed injuries. Was it coaching genius that Colaiacovo, Bertuzzi, and Sammy were all out basically the entire season which led to DeKeyser, Nyquist, and Andersson stepping into the lineup? Those young players were more beneficial to our success than anything else. Had those 3 players been healthy I doubt they get nearly the same amount of playing time with Babcock coaching.

 

[Syckle78]

How do you even quantify who the best coach is? It's not like we can look at results of two coaches with equal roster facing equal competition. I still stand by there really is no overall best/worst coach there is best and worst coaches for a specific team and circumstance. Babcock may have been the best coach for us post Lewis and the two cup finals. But it may be that he isn't a good coach for what we have now.

Even if he is the second best coach we ever had it it doesn't mean he is the best for us
now. Something isn't working here. His system is stifling. I don't believe this is the best coach with the right environment for developing young talent. I would much rather see Blashille work with them and deal with the transition. If it's a mistake its a mistake. I would much rather err on the side of caution with our players than a coach.

 

[SoupNazi]

How do you even quantify who the best coach is?

You really can't.

 

[Mort Divine]

They have to wait until the dead wood finishes rotting and the sprouts are ready for prime time IMO. Last year was nice, but it was a miracle of coaching genius that that group was able to do what it (almost) did.

Jurco, Mantha, Sproul, Ouellet, Nyquist, Tatar. Those guys are the keys to the future, and most of them aren't ready yet. The guys that are ready, add more undersized skill to a team that's already got too much of it.

Babcock is 2nd best coach this team has ever had and dumping him would be immensely foolish. Even if I don't like the stuff he does sometimes.

Do we though?

Z? Dats? Alfie? Franzen? They're not what I'd call undersized. Tatar, sure...but one player is "too much" ?

I don't see it.

 

[Heaton]

You really can't.

By NHL standards its the coach that coaches the worst team from the previous season and makes the playoffs.

So that's why Patty Roy is going to win the Jack Adams.