Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by Frk It, Oct 28, 2013.
Good idea? Bad idea?
State your peace.
Oh nice, about a week after this thread was created last season the Wings started playing well and made the playoffs. I guess we needed another one to get this team turned around.
Whatever works, right?
What bothers me is it's no longer an issue of "oh, Cleary sucks!" It seems more and more unlikely that it's about specific players dragging the team down. I think it's that at some fundamental level the team is not functioning properly anymore. One of the potential solutions to this would be to fire Babcock and replace him with a coach that plays a style more conducive to the player group (and prospect group).
I mean, Babcock talks every season about being tuned out. One of those years he was going to be right. He's a great coach, but he's not a magician. Bowman got fired at times too.
Of course, a question to ask is: would any other coach be able to do better with this roster? and if so, by how much?
We can beat up on some bad teams or get outshot 40-28 and win somehow, rack up a superficially impressive win streak and then everyone will think the team's fine again!
I miss puck possession!
What does Cleary, Samuelsson and Tootoo still do here?
I'm 100% in favor of it. Hire Blash and bring in Phil Housley on the bench. I can't stand Babcock anymore. By definition, he's simply insane.
I want to see Nyquist and Helm in the lineup first. I think if they are utilized properly the team looks and can play completely different...
If, however, they return and we still see the same crap and players like Cleary and Abdelkader put in roles they shouldn't be then I'd probably be all for it.
But let's be real, it ain't happening no matter how bad this season goes.
think its a bit early. We do not have set lines yet not one set line.
Now if he mixes it up like hes doing and he cannot find a winning combination?
I would consider that a failure.
I believe we have the talent to win. With or without nyquist. I just think we need to find what works so will give him a couple weeks before am totally mad.
Am happy Z and D are split now we should become overall better in long run.
Need to figure things out and think Mike will get it in a short time.
I didnt post earlier in other post about lines helm practicing on second WHICH IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN or Weiss on 4th again not going to happen. He is trying to see who looks good together. Sure this should have been worked out already but its not.
Is all ok our D has been ok besides 5-6 when healthy. Our offense needs to be consistent and think weiss on third helm on fourth will do that and than you have to find who is hungry and making things happen
I think Mike is looking for that so will give him some time. I am actually happier than I was a week ago a lot happier
Pretty much. I can't think of any scenario where a coach gets fired and then goes on to coach team Canada where his GM is part of it. Would be super weird.
Yeah it won't happen. Zero chance.
But as displeased as I may be with Babcock, I do feel like they'll turn it around. The team just might look quite a bit different up front by this time next week.
The team needs to be less loyal to its players and stop relying on veterans to get the job done. There are too many kids on this team who should have been up years ago.
This. And make a ****ing trade! Stop hoarding washed up vets! Sign players with ''bad attitudes'' that can play. Ex. Semin or Grabovski!
I am ready for this, but barring a disaster and we are talking a 10 game losing streak that pretty much puts our entire season in a ditch kind of disaster that nobody should root for, it just will not happen.
I think we need a fresh voice though, and the removal of Babcock will shift the hot seat over to the other guy that realistically right now has very little chance of moving on in Holland.
I think Blashill is pretty ready for an NHL job, but it is hard to see this really happening.
I do think a big part of Babcock's mystique in the league will go away when Canada doesn't have the best Olympics. He is still a HHOF coach at some point, but he himself is saying it looks like he isn't even coaching the team and he is embarrassed. That is a pretty alarming statement.
I also think it might be time for Holland to slide farther up stairs, and maybe through a boatload of money at a Poile type. A guy that maybe has not had the resources, but wouldn't turn down this opportunity.
babcock can only ice a team what holland is giving him. u cant convert a truck into a formula one car.
get rid of holland and 7-8 player and renew the team. cant be worse then the personal we have now.
dats and zetta will garantie you a playoff spot anyway.
I'm sort of leaning towards blaming Holland more than Babcock. A few years ago, when Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, Filppula, Hudler, Hossa, etc. were still around we weren't complaining nearly as much about line combinations, game rosters, etc. I think Babcock is perfectly capable of doing these things well but he needs the personnel to do it. Thing is, he doesn't have that now. Hoarding 'past due' vets, blockading prospects, inactivity in the trade market, that falls on Holland.
Criticize Babs' lineup decisions all you want, he's tried many combinations already in the season. He's doing SOMETHING. What has Holland done? Nothing. He is so hesitant to make any kind of move. He seems petrified of change. The only moves he does are moves to PREVENT change, like resigning Cleary. Holland needs to stop kicking the can down the road and cut the fat off this roster.
whatever works . he might be all time best coach after all. Let him go to Edmonton , he will turn that franchise around. My question is : is he even wont to stay with DRW ?
I get the feeling that Babcock is to the point that he doesn't know what the hell to do with this team and frankly it's tough to blame him, the roster is full of dead-weight.
I don't think Babcock should be fired. I would be very happy if him and Holland could create these lines going by mid-season:
Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Bertuzzi
Franzen - Weiss - Alfredsson
Nyquist - Helm - Tatar
Cleary - Abdelkader - Miller
- Datsyuk and Zetterberg playing together. They are simply better when playing on the same line. Bertuzzi knows his role on the line.
- Third line is fastest on the team. Combination of speed and skill would create alot of mismatches on the opposition.
- Abdelkader is slotted where he should be.(Not a scoring line)
- Gives us three (potentially) solid scoring lines.
- Second line(maybe). If Weiss continues to disappoint and Franzen continues his lazy play it could be a very weak second line.
- Cleary. I would rather him not be on the team, but if he must give him a fourth line spot and little ice time.
- Second line performs. If they play as expected and gain some chemistry with eachother they could be a solid second line.( Each player solid for ~50 points this season)
- Franzen loafs. Drop him to third line, bring Nyquist or Tatar up to second.
- Weiss disappoints. In this situation Dats/Z must be split up.
- Injuries. If Helm is still having injury problems bring in Andersson/Glendening.
I think these lines would give us the best chance for success. I can only hope Holland and Babcock agree.
Unfortunately, it looks like Babcock does not. Our practice lines have Abby and Cleary in the top6 again.
I suspect he agrees with you that Weiss needs to center the second line if he's able. I suspect he agrees that Nyquist makes the team better and should be at least top9. I suspect he agrees that Franzen has been less than a workaholic, to put it mildly.
But on the issue of Abby and Cleary, he does not seem to agree at all.
Why hasn't he tried playing Z with Weiss yet? If anyone can get the guy to start scoring, it's Zetty. Sticking him on the 4th line is just ********
Maybe try this for top 6:
Zetterberg - Weiss - Alfie
Franzen - Datsyuk - Tatar
Lost the room, lines are ******ed, style of play is ******** we aren't a top contender anymore but we ain't no nashville predators either. Our roster isn't capable of the style he wants to be played either.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes to the op question.
I'd give Babcock until the end of the season. If there isn't major improvement and we struggle to make the playoffs and get bounced early or fail to make it altogether then I think change would be best for both. The team would seemingly have no choice but to transition to more of a rebuild. Not sure if Babcock is the right coach for that scenario.
we could see a lineup next year like:
I would feel better with Blashill coaching that team than Babcock.
Separate names with a comma.