Finland and Slovakia: almost same but very different

[Psych0dad]

I think the real difference is money. It's not like hockey isn't very popular in Slovakia as well, it's just that Finland is considerably wealthier.

True, in Finland the social programs and mentality is more towards getting young people to choose what they want to play and it's supported via various programs. Gear is not cheap but when there are programs to fund most of them, it becomes within reach for more kids.

 

[Eidyia]

True, in Finland the social programs and mentality is more towards getting young people to choose what they want to play and it's supported via various programs. Gear is not cheap but when there are programs to fund most of them, it becomes within reach for more kids.

True. Also Finland co-hosted the IIHF Worlds twice in the row in the early 2010's and the profits were directed to hire full-time skill and skating coaches for the 30 biggest junior teams in the country.

We're enjoying the results now.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

Why is there such a difference? Well for starters also look at the number of ice rinks in Finland and in Slovakia. Despite the similar population Finland has 268 indoor and 55 outdoor rinks compared to Slovakia's'62 indoor rinks and 17 outdoor rinks. 10-15 years ago the difference was even bigger as Slovakia was closer to 40-45 indoor rinks back then. That automatically means a smaller amount of clubs and hence also players.

But additionally even the fewer clubs that we have are a lot of the time short of the players, especially with the smaller teams they often struggle even to find 15 players to ice for games in leagues in low age catgories. And even the bigger teams don't have enough players to create good competition between them. Some people in Slovak hockey like to complain that it's all because of tablets, PCs etc. Which I think is just an excuse as those things exist in other countries as well. Kids change and you need to adapt to that instead of complaining about how you could make a selection of the best players back in the 70s and how you have to actively recruit to get enough players nowadays,

And that's a major factor at all youth levels that there isn't a very competitive envrionment which onviously isn't the case in Finland.

I was just thinking abut this when I watched the compeition between Petra Vlhova and Mikaela Shiffrin in the last few slaloms. Petra Vlhova is extremely disappointed to finish in 2nd place because she didn't beat Shiffrin which in turn motivates her to try harder in order to beat her next time like she did today. She doesn't want to finish 2nd, she wants to win. On the other hand I kinda feel like Slovak hockey and other team sports tbh don't have that mentality. I mean just look at what the coaches say ahead of WJC and UHWC-18 - the goal is to avoid relegation and make the QF (before when the sytem was that only 6 teams making the QF it was 1) avoid relegation 2) QF is a bonus, they are just lucky that now if they reach one they also automatically reach the other as well). I know you have to be realistic, but that doesn't mean you should have a loser mentality,

That is of course just one of the reasons as there are many others - there is definitely more money in Finnish hockey, their coaches throughout the system probably aren't stuck in the last century, Finland as a country overall is less corrupt than Slovakia etc.

Fun fact: Finn Jukka Tiikkaja is involved with the Slovak federation at the moment as part of a group that is creating a dvelopment plan for Slovak hockey

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

Why is there such a difference? Well for starters also look at the number of ice rinks in Finland and in Slovakia. Despite the similar population Finland has 268 indoor and 55 outdoor rinks compared to Slovakia's'62 indoor rinks and 17 outdoor rinks. 10-15 years ago the difference was even bigger as Slovakia was closer to 40-45 indoor rinks back then. That automatically means a smaller amount of clubs and hence also players.

But additionally even the fewer clubs that we have are a lot of the time short of the players, especially with the smaller teams they often struggle even to find 15 players to ice for games in leagues in low age catgories. And even the bigger teams don't have enough players to create good competition between them. Some people in Slovak hockey like to complain that it's all because of tablets, PCs etc. Which I think is just an excuse as those things exist in other countries as well. Kids change and you need to adapt to that instead of complaining about how you could make a selection of the best players back in the 70s and how you have to actively recruit to get enough players nowadays,

And that's a major factor at all youth levels that there isn't a very competitive envrionment which onviously isn't the case in Finland.

I was just thinking abut this when I watched the compeition between Petra Vlhova and Mikaela Shiffrin in the last few slaloms. Petra Vlhova is extremely disappointed to finish in 2nd place because she didn't beat Shiffrin which in turn motivates her to try harder in order to beat her next time like she did today. She doesn't want to finish 2nd, she wants to win. On the other hand I kinda feel like Slovak hockey and other team sports tbh don't have that mentality. I mean just look at what the coaches say ahead of WJC and UHWC-18 - the goal is to avoid relegation and make the QF (before when the sytem was that only 6 teams making the QF it was 1) avoid relegation 2) QF is a bonus, they are just lucky that now if they reach one they also automatically reach the other as well). I know you have to be realistic, but that doesn't mean you should have a loser mentality,

That is of course just one of the reasons as there are many others - there is definitely more money in Finnish hockey, their coaches throughout the system probably aren't stuck in the last century, Finland as a country overall is less corrupt than Slovakia etc.

Fun fact: Finn Jukka Tiikkaja is involved with the Slovak federation at the moment as part of a group that is creating a dvelopment plan for Slovak hockey

This is also a big problem with football, where the talent is there but the effort level seems to be lacking. Combine that with coaches who are doing just enough to keep their jobs which means very little risk taking. Classic Slovak football strategy of parking the bus while possessing top quality in Hamsik, Duda, Rusnak, etc. (See recent UEFA nations league results)

The hockey teams and football teams often have that same mentality of playing to lose rather than to win.

 

[Urbanskog]

Why is there such a difference? Well for starters also look at the number of ice rinks in Finland and in Slovakia. Despite the similar population Finland has 268 indoor and 55 outdoor rinks compared to Slovakia's'62 indoor rinks and 17 outdoor rinks. 10-15 years ago the difference was even bigger as Slovakia was closer to 40-45 indoor rinks back then. That automatically means a smaller amount of clubs and hence also players.

But additionally even the fewer clubs that we have are a lot of the time short of the players, especially with the smaller teams they often struggle even to find 15 players to ice for games in leagues in low age catgories. And even the bigger teams don't have enough players to create good competition between them. Some people in Slovak hockey like to complain that it's all because of tablets, PCs etc. Which I think is just an excuse as those things exist in other countries as well. Kids change and you need to adapt to that instead of complaining about how you could make a selection of the best players back in the 70s and how you have to actively recruit to get enough players nowadays,

And that's a major factor at all youth levels that there isn't a very competitive envrionment which onviously isn't the case in Finland.

I was just thinking abut this when I watched the compeition between Petra Vlhova and Mikaela Shiffrin in the last few slaloms. Petra Vlhova is extremely disappointed to finish in 2nd place because she didn't beat Shiffrin which in turn motivates her to try harder in order to beat her next time like she did today. She doesn't want to finish 2nd, she wants to win. On the other hand I kinda feel like Slovak hockey and other team sports tbh don't have that mentality. I mean just look at what the coaches say ahead of WJC and UHWC-18 - the goal is to avoid relegation and make the QF (before when the sytem was that only 6 teams making the QF it was 1) avoid relegation 2) QF is a bonus, they are just lucky that now if they reach one they also automatically reach the other as well). I know you have to be realistic, but that doesn't mean you should have a loser mentality,

That is of course just one of the reasons as there are many others - there is definitely more money in Finnish hockey, their coaches throughout the system probably aren't stuck in the last century, Finland as a country overall is less corrupt than Slovakia etc.

Fun fact: Finn Jukka Tiikkaja is involved with the Slovak federation at the moment as part of a group that is creating a dvelopment plan for Slovak hockey

How are these outdoor rinks counted anyway? There must be by no exaggeration thousands of public outdoors rinks in Finland during winter.

 

[member 305909]

Last time I checked Slovakia had a slightly higher population than Finland but now it has fallen below Finland. Like other former Eastern-bloc countries probably Slovakia also loses a lot of population to emigration.

Well, that is politics and stuff for other forum.

 

[SpinninRodIntoArmpit]

How are these outdoor rinks counted anyway? There must be by no exaggeration thousands of public outdoors rinks in Finland during winter.

I don't know but I just made up a theory in my head that those 55 outdoor rinks are ones that have cooling pipes (or whattaya call them in American?) below the rink, for example the legendary Koulukatu in Tampere. However, if that was the case, then that amount would feel rather high.

E: Actually there's two rinks at Koulukatu, so if there's other places like that and you count the rinks separately, then maybe.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Money is the main factor IMHO. Hockey needs a lot of money to be played. Not only for the players (parents), but it costs a lot of money to build a rink, to maintain it, in most of the countries as the temperatures rise there won't be many rinks out there if we exclude the big towns. Soccer needs much less money, thus in a country like Slovakia, where it's the number one sport, can still succeed as players have not only easier access, but also a lot more other countries to move to, to improve as a player and have more visibility.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

When money mattered less, Slovenia produced Anze Kopitar. He was born more than 30 years ago. Will we ever see another star hailing from the Slovenian program? I doubt it.

 

[stastny12]

This is also a big problem with football, where the talent is there but the effort level seems to be lacking. Combine that with coaches who are doing just enough to keep their jobs which means very little risk taking. Classic Slovak football strategy of parking the bus while possessing top quality in Hamsik, Duda, Rusnak, etc. (See recent UEFA nations league results)

The hockey teams and football teams often have that same mentality of playing to lose rather than to win.

I would say that this is case only for national team(Kozak thing). Our clubs are different(only Spartak play defensively). AS Trencin, MSK Zilina, DAC and probably Slovan too, all are well-known for their offensive skills and lack of defensive qualities.

 

[Lepardi]

True, in Finland the social programs and mentality is more towards getting young people to choose what they want to play and it's supported via various programs. Gear is not cheap but when there are programs to fund most of them, it becomes within reach for more kids.

How many Finnish NHL players don't come from wealthy families? My guess would be zero.

 

[talitintti]

No one cares about football in Finland, is it even the #2? Definitely much more arguable, than hockey's position as the runaway #1 sport.

 

[SotasicA]

where ice-hockey is second most popular sport (after football)

LOL what? Soccer is not nearly as popular as hockey is in Finland. Just look at attendance and revenue. It's not even close. Hockey teams pull off about 10x the revenue.

Kids play soccer because it's easy and cheap, and as a second sport among winter sports or motor sports, and there's plenty of registered players, but the top talent moves on to hockey because that's where the money is.

 

[SotasicA]

No one cares about football in Finland, is it even the #2? Definitely much more arguable, than hockey's position as the runaway #1 sport.

Finnish rules baseball could have soccer beat, not sure.

 

[SotasicA]

Aren't Canada and Finland the only 2 countries where hockey is #1?

I actually thought Slovakia was one of those countries too, but I guess not.

 

[member 305909]

It would be interesting to see if soccer would challenge hockey in terms of popularity in Finland if the Finnish national team started to be more successful or at least once in a while qualify for the euros or the world cup.

Iceland destroyed our favourite excuse for lack of success in soccer. Namely, we are such a small country.

 

[Husqvarna]

Aren't Canada and Finland the only 2 countries where hockey is #1?

Well, Finland will play in the Play Offs for the European Championships in a couple of months time ... and yesterday they actually beat Sweden(!) 1-0 in Quatar!

Football, folks.

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

I actually thought Slovakia was one of those countries too, but I guess not.

Nope not even close really

 

[Jumptheshark]

Per Wiki:

115	Finland	5,522,015	November 30, 2018	0.072%	Official monthly estimate
116	Slovakia	5,445,087	June 30, 2018	0.071%	Official estimate

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Both countries with almost the same population.
Both countries, where ice-hockey is second most popular sport (after football).

But now comes the differencies:
Slovakia has only 10 727 registered players (according to IIHF)
Finland has 73 374

Slovaks top league is way way under the Finnish Sado Maso Liiga.

Slovak junior leagues are even more under the level of the Finnish.

Now tell me: Why? Why are there such big differences?

Yeah

You need to spend time in both countries

Finland is far more develop and far more hockey arenas

Slovakia is just now starting to build an inferstructure and other things.. Slovakia used be part of Czechoslovakia and when they went independent it becomes obvious Czech part was far more developed

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

Yeah

You need to spend time in both countries

Finland is far more develop and far more hockey arenas

Slovakia is just now starting to build an inferstructure and other things.. Slovakia used be part of Czechoslovakia and when they went independent it becomes obvious Czech part was far more developed

OP is from Slovakia, he’s just looking for a more in depth explanation

 

[member 305909]

I'm convinced that football or soccer, whichever you want to call it, will manage just fine if there are two or three countries in the world where it is not the number one spectator-sport.

 

[stastny12]

I actually thought Slovakia was one of those countries too, but I guess not.

Actually, you were right. Everything changed in last few years, though. There is no more such a success in hockey and NHL stars like we used to have. On the other hand, in football, things are changing for the good. And thats the reason why people tend to watch a football, mostly.

Moreover, they tend to watch individual sports like a biathlon, skiing and cycling(Sagan), because there were a pretty decent results, recently.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Biathlon is so weird, I don't get either why people watch it or why skiers just don sprint the hell out of them avoiding shooting making up for the penalties

 

[GaboriklessWild]

Per Wiki:

115	Finland	5,522,015	November 30, 2018	0.072%	Official monthly estimate
116	Slovakia	5,445,087	June 30, 2018	0.071%	Official estimate

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Both countries with almost the same population.
Both countries, where ice-hockey is second most popular sport (after football).

But now comes the differencies:
Slovakia has only 10 727 registered players (according to IIHF)
Finland has 73 374

Slovaks top league is way way under the Finnish Sado Maso Liiga.

Slovak junior leagues are even more under the level of the Finnish.

Now tell me: Why? Why are there such big differences?

So many BS there.

Hockey is much more popular than football in Finland and football is much more popular than hockey in Slovakia.

Most of Slovakia's population is not interested in hockey. Especially in the southern regions. The similarity of the two country's population is therefore completely irrelevant.

Why are there such big differences? The biggest problem is that IIHF/NHL are corrupt af and NHL doesn't have to follow any transfer system. The Slovakian teams have no interest in educating and training the best players because they will definitely lose them when they are 18 years old. Slovakian/european teams receive a one-time payment of about $240,000 per player they lose from NHL. Or worse, they don't get anything for them because the IIHF doesn't ban international transfers of players under 18 years. It's a big joke.

It currently has no effect on the countries with better social benefits. But this theft will have a great impact on hockey in Europe.

The youth developmentin football is much better protected by FIFA. They reward clubs investing in the training and education of young players. There are Training Compensation and Solidarity Payments.

For example, Zilina sold Skriniar for €6m to Sampdoria. One year later, Sampdoria sold Skriniar for €34m to Inter but Zilina received a few percent of this amount. Now Skiriniar is one the best defender in the World and worth over 100m€, Zilina will receive a few percent of this amount again when Inter sell him.

That's why football is growing and the popularity of hockey is decreasing in Slovakia.

Last time I checked Slovakia had a slightly higher population than Finland but now it has fallen below Finland. Like other former Eastern-bloc countries probably Slovakia also loses a lot of population to emigration.

Well, that is politics and stuff for other forum.

I guess you're a little confused. Slovakia is not a Baltic country. Those countries are losing their population to a great extent.

Both Slovakia and Finald have a positive net migration rate. The difference is that Finland let in more people. That is why their population is growing more.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

So many BS there.

Hockey is much more popular than football in Finland and football is much more popular than hockey in Slovakia.

Most of Slovakia's population is not interested in hockey. Especially in the southern regions. The similarity of the two country's population is therefore completely irrelevant.

Why are there such big differences? The biggest problem is that IIHF/NHL are corrupt af and NHL doesn't have to follow any transfer system. The Slovakian teams have no interest in educating and training the best players because they will definitely lose them when they are 18 years old. Slovakian/european teams receive a one-time payment of about $240,000 per player they lose from NHL. Or worse, they don't get anything for them because the IIHF doesn't ban international transfers of players under 18 years. It's a big joke.

It currently has no effect on the countries with better social benefits. But this theft will have a great impact on hockey in Europe.

The youth developmentin football is much better protected by FIFA. They reward clubs investing in the training and education of young players. There are Training Compensation and Solidarity Payments.

For example, Zilina sold Skriniar for €6m to Sampdoria. One year later, Sampdoria sold Skriniar for €34m to Inter but Zilina received a few percent of this amount. Now Skiriniar is one the best defender in the World and worth over 100m€, Zilina will receive a few percent of this amount again when Inter sell him.

That's why football is growing and the popularity of hockey is decreasing in Slovakia.



I guess you're a little confused. Slovakia is not a Baltic country. Those countries are losing their population to a great extent.

Both Slovakia and Finald have a positive net migration rate. The difference is that Finland let in more people. That is why their population is growing more.

@vorky what do you think