Proposal: Finish the Rebuild

[valkynax]

Agreed...Its not this year..even though dramatic progress will have been made..(what happens at the end of the year when we have EP and Hughes..cant speak for that...?)

Excellent, we agreed on something.

Edler and Tanev are already declining, and the rest of the D clearly don't look like they are ready to take on heavier loads. What Hughes can do is unknown, OJ is not trending well, Tryamkin might not come back at all...simply too much uncertainties. If we had one or two deep playoff runs (say...conference finals), then it will be easier to be sure of what we are missing, what can be done to fix our weaknesses, and leveraging it to UFAs by saying hey see we were getting close, you might be what we need and let's work together to the cup?

What OP posted is not just the best case scenario...but the best case scenario in a parallel universe where nothing ever goes wrong with anything, EVER.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Excellent, we agreed on something.

Edler and Tanev are already declining, and the rest of the D clearly don't look like they are ready to take on heavier loads. What Hughes can do is unknown, OJ is not trending well, Tryamkin might not come back at all...simply too much uncertainties. If we had one or two deep playoff runs (say...conference finals), then it will be easier to be sure of what we are missing, what can be done to fix our weaknesses, and leveraging it to UFAs by saying hey see we were getting close, you might be what we need and let's work together to the cup?

What OP posted is not just the best case scenario...but the best case scenario in a parallel universe where nothing ever goes wrong with anything, EVER.

Disagree with the OP..If JB is a buyer at the TDL,would be dumb..

 

[Var]

I'd like us to eye the playoffs as well, but that Toronto game should be a wake up call for those of us that feel we're close to being the complete team we'd like to be. It doesn't seem like we quite have enough. We've got some good pieces, but after the top 6 players, it starts to fall off fast. To round us out, we're going to be relying on the development of a lot of the younger prospects like Quinn, Woo, Juolevi, and even guys like Hutton, Virtanen, and Stetcher who are still fairly new as well as other potentials like Rathbone, Madden, and others. But because of the large number of slots to be solidified, it's going to take some time to see what we have and gain some consistency.

The risk with what you're saying is that we become a middling team with a poor shot at prospects and not on an improving swing. There may be a good time to sacrifice the future for a great several years of playoff shots, but I don't think we're there yet.

 

[VintageBure]

Oh...you were serious?




And in response to this thread...I'd like to see the rebuild actually start first, before we talk about finishing it. Bad teams that end up with good prospects by virtue of being bad aren't rebuilding. They're just bad.

I said it’s not likely, I was never a fan of the juolevi pick, and his projection after the draft has been alarming (although not as alarming as some poster claim it is), a lot can change in four years for both juolevi and pieterangelo. I just don’t think it’s time for us to start trading prospects for aging players.

 

[DomY]

And in response to this thread...I'd like to see the rebuild actually start first, before we talk about finishing it.

I agree with this.

I think you can divide the roster into four parts: Core pieces, Complementary Core Pieces, Trade Currency, and Roster Filler.

Core pieces are the nucleus of the team and shape your team identity. The size and configuration of this depends entirely on the makeup of your team. Unless a major shift occurs, these players are untouchable. Right now our core is EP, Boeser, Horvat, and Edler*.

Complementary Core Pieces are players that augment the core, either by providing complementary skillsets (secondary scoring, physical element, emotional importance), but do not have either the top end ceiling or have a weakness that prevents them from being considered a part of the main core. These players are important but are not necessarily untouchable. On this roster it would include Tanev, Sutter, Markstrom, Hutton, Stetcher, Baertschi, Eriksson, Virtanen, Leivo, Gudbranson, Roussel, Beagle, Goldobin

Trade Currency are pieces that do not mesh well with the current core, and are not seen as long-term fits, on expiring contracts, or are made redundant by better complementary core players. This would be Gagner, Schaller, Pouliot, Gaunce, MDZ

Roster filler ideally would be players that can provide a few games of spark or a little something, rookies, or NHL/AHL Tweeners. On this team it would be Biega, Motte, Demko, Gaudette, MacEwan, Archibald (before trade)

The goal would be to have 15-17 core or complementary core pieces that match up favourably to other cup contenders before making a push for the Cup. This is the true meat of your roster; as we all know, in the playoffs rosters basically shrink to 3 lines and 4 dmen and 1 goalie, with a few changes here and there that have meaningful impact (bryan rust?).

The team has mis-identified Gudbranson and Eriksson and to a lesser extent Gagner, and Schaller as core pieces, or at best considered them trade currency pieces that have fizzled in value. Further, the current abilities (not ceilings) of other complementary core pieces (namely Goldobin, Virtanen, Baertschi) do not match up favourably to other top wingers around the league.

Improvement will have to come externally. We should be flipping guys that have shown improved value like Tanev, Hutton, Stetcher, Goldobin and Sutter for long term core pieces that will be together when our core has matured, or equally skilled players who can score goals. The core 15-17 players are simply not good enough, with only internal improvement from Stetcher, Hutton, Virtanen, Leivo, or Goldobin among the complementary players even possible and only Gaudette or Dahlen joining the core in the near future.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Absolutely terrible.


And you're proposing that we allow St. Louis to do to Pietrangelo what we should be doing with Edler/Tanev.... selling high while we're rebuilding.

This would be the best course of action.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I said it’s not likely, I was never a fan of the juolevi pick, and his projection after the draft has been alarming (although not as alarming as some poster claim it is), a lot can change in four years for both juolevi and pieterangelo. I just don’t think it’s time for us to start trading prospects for aging players.

I agree with your last statement. As down as I am on Juolevi, I wouldn't trade him for an aging player. Instead I would be looking to see if I can at least recoup a 1st round pick for him, knowing full well we'll never get the kind of value out of him as we could have got if we made the right pick at 5 in 2016.

But yes, we need to be stockpiling picks and prospects, not trading them away for vets.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I agree with this.

I think you can divide the roster into four parts: Core pieces, Complementary Core Pieces, Trade Currency, and Roster Filler.

Core pieces are the nucleus of the team and shape your team identity. The size and configuration of this depends entirely on the makeup of your team. Unless a major shift occurs, these players are untouchable. Right now our core is EP, Boeser, Horvat, and Edler*.

Complementary Core Pieces are players that augment the core, either by providing complementary skillsets (secondary scoring, physical element, emotional importance), but do not have either the top end ceiling or have a weakness that prevents them from being considered a part of the main core. These players are important but are not necessarily untouchable. On this roster it would include Tanev, Sutter, Markstrom, Hutton, Stetcher, Baertschi, Eriksson, Virtanen, Leivo, Gudbranson, Roussel, Beagle, Goldobin

Trade Currency are pieces that do not mesh well with the current core, and are not seen as long-term fits, on expiring contracts, or are made redundant by better complementary core players. This would be Gagner, Schaller, Pouliot, Gaunce, MDZ

Roster filler ideally would be players that can provide a few games of spark or a little something, rookies, or NHL/AHL Tweeners. On this team it would be Biega, Motte, Demko, Gaudette, MacEwan, Archibald (before trade)

The goal would be to have 15-17 core or complementary core pieces that match up favourably to other cup contenders before making a push for the Cup. This is the true meat of your roster; as we all know, in the playoffs rosters basically shrink to 3 lines and 4 dmen and 1 goalie, with a few changes here and there that have meaningful impact (bryan rust?).

The team has mis-identified Gudbranson and Eriksson and to a lesser extent Gagner, and Schaller as core pieces, or at best considered them trade currency pieces that have fizzled in value. Further, the current abilities (not ceilings) of other complementary core pieces (namely Goldobin, Virtanen, Baertschi) do not match up favourably to other top wingers around the league.

Improvement will have to come externally. We should be flipping guys that have shown improved value like Tanev, Hutton, Stetcher, Goldobin and Sutter for long term core pieces that will be together when our core has matured, or equally skilled players who can score goals. The core 15-17 players are simply not good enough, with only internal improvement from Stetcher, Hutton, Virtanen, Leivo, or Goldobin among the complementary players even possible and only Gaudette or Dahlen joining the core in the near future.

I have a different outlook in terms of how you view the pieces on this team. Working within the categories you used:

Core pieces: Elias Pettersson, Bo Horvat, Brock Boeser
Complementary Core Pieces: Ben Hutton, Troy Stecher, Nikolay Goldobin, Jake Virtanen
Trade Currency: Alex Edler, Chris Tanev, MDZ, Brandon Sutter, Sven Baertschi
Roster filler: Gudbranson, Pouliot, Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Motte, Eriksson, Gagner, Biega, Leivo

In other words, there's a lot of roster filler. I think everyone on that filler list (except for maybe Biega and Leivo) need to be gone before the team will realistically be a playoff team. In that group are either bad players or awful contracts (or both), sprinkled in with a couple of inconsequential players. Leivo and Biega could hang around as complementary depth players and be useful in their roles, but the others need to go.

I would also look for an upgrade on Goldobin. He can maybe develop into a decent 2nd liner, with defensive issues, but if the team is going to take a step forward they'll need someone better in that role. Virtanen I see as someone who can probably fill in on the 3rd line and do a decent job. We really still lack quality top 6 forwards on both the NHL team and in terms of prospects.

On the back end, outside of Hughes, I don't see much coming up the pipeline. Hutton and Stecher are good in that bottom pair/fill in on the second pair role. But ideally you would like an upgrade there if you're going to be a good team. I don't think Juolevi will be more than a bottom pair, PP specialist. He may end up being more of a Pouliot himself, which isn't useful.

It's very important that we purge the team of the rotten contracts that Benning has plauged it with, while also getting quality returns on our trade currency.

 

[Uhmkay]

I still can't believe there are people that think we're close to finishing the rebuild... the has been a season where VERY little has gone wrong. No long term injuries, etc. We are not close to being a contender.

 

[valkynax]

I still can't believe there are people that think we're close to finishing the rebuild... the has been a season where VERY little has gone wrong. No long term injuries, etc. We are not close to being a contender.

Hey look on the bright side - this thread had united almost EVERYONE on the board: tankers, Benning bros, Benning critics...etc.

We all set aside our different opinions and almost unanimously agree on one thing: thinking the rebuild can be finished with one or two overpaid UFA is nothing short of monumental unadulterated lunacy.

I for one am quite happy to be able to agree with PoM on this subject matter~.

 

[Cupless44]

I have a different outlook in terms of how you view the pieces on this team. Working within the categories you used:

Core pieces: Elias Pettersson, Bo Horvat, Brock Boeser
Complementary Core Pieces: Ben Hutton, Troy Stecher, Nikolay Goldobin, Jake Virtanen
Trade Currency: Alex Edler, Chris Tanev, MDZ, Brandon Sutter, Sven Baertschi
Roster filler: Gudbranson, Pouliot, Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Motte, Eriksson, Gagner, Biega, Leivo

In other words, there's a lot of roster filler. I think everyone on that filler list (except for maybe Biega and Leivo) need to be gone before the team will realistically be a playoff team. In that group are either bad players or awful contracts (or both), sprinkled in with a couple of inconsequential players. Leivo and Biega could hang around as complementary depth players and be useful in their roles, but the others need to go.

I would also look for an upgrade on Goldobin. He can maybe develop into a decent 2nd liner, with defensive issues, but if the team is going to take a step forward they'll need someone better in that role. Virtanen I see as someone who can probably fill in on the 3rd line and do a decent job. We really still lack quality top 6 forwards on both the NHL team and in terms of prospects.

On the back end, outside of Hughes, I don't see much coming up the pipeline. Hutton and Stecher are good in that bottom pair/fill in on the second pair role. But ideally you would like an upgrade there if you're going to be a good team. I don't think Juolevi will be more than a bottom pair, PP specialist. He may end up being more of a Pouliot himself, which isn't useful.

It's very important that we purge the team of the rotten contracts that Benning has plauged it with, while also getting quality returns on our trade currency.

I agree with the way you have grouped the players completely

 

[DomY]

I have a different outlook in terms of how you view the pieces on this team. Working within the categories you used:

Core pieces: Elias Pettersson, Bo Horvat, Brock Boeser
Complementary Core Pieces: Ben Hutton, Troy Stecher, Nikolay Goldobin, Jake Virtanen
Trade Currency: Alex Edler, Chris Tanev, MDZ, Brandon Sutter, Sven Baertschi
Roster filler: Gudbranson, Pouliot, Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Motte, Eriksson, Gagner, Biega, Leivo

In other words, there's a lot of roster filler. I think everyone on that filler list (except for maybe Biega and Leivo) need to be gone before the team will realistically be a playoff team. In that group are either bad players or awful contracts (or both), sprinkled in with a couple of inconsequential players. Leivo and Biega could hang around as complementary depth players and be useful in their roles, but the others need to go.

I would also look for an upgrade on Goldobin. He can maybe develop into a decent 2nd liner, with defensive issues, but if the team is going to take a step forward they'll need someone better in that role. Virtanen I see as someone who can probably fill in on the 3rd line and do a decent job. We really still lack quality top 6 forwards on both the NHL team and in terms of prospects.

On the back end, outside of Hughes, I don't see much coming up the pipeline. Hutton and Stecher are good in that bottom pair/fill in on the second pair role. But ideally you would like an upgrade there if you're going to be a good team. I don't think Juolevi will be more than a bottom pair, PP specialist. He may end up being more of a Pouliot himself, which isn't useful.

It's very important that we purge the team of the rotten contracts that Benning has plauged it with, while also getting quality returns on our trade currency.

I absolutely agree with your category of the current roster players (with some exceptions, but we all have personal preference). In my example I was trying to illustrate "what if" this Canucks roster was to be considered a Contender, but we both came to the same conclusion (ie: this team is nowhere near good enough and have only half of the requisite key roster at this point). Yours more accurately highlights that the current Canucks have nearly half the active roster that should just be considered Roster Filler.

I do like Roussel, and I think you can win with Beagle or Sutter, but having both is redundant and I would prefer our third line (4th line based on ice time) to have a more offensive centerman. I agree that this team should upgrade on Goldobin. I'd sell on Baertschi too, but he'll need to rebuild some of his value. Leivo might be a good guy to invest a bit of time on as well.

I think Motte is a perfect candidate for this team to pump up with a bit more ice time (maybe once Goldy is traded), then flip his inflated totals for futures. Similarly with Hutton and Stetcher - you're going to lose one to Seattle in 2 years, might as well get an asset back.

To go back to the topic, I think we need at least 4 very good wingers, a 60pt center (think RNH, Stastny, Thornton) and at least 2 more defensemen better than Ben Hutton. I think Markstrom may have legitimately turned a corner (functional changes not just a hot run), and I'm excited to see what we have in Demko.

The trump card we hold at least is EP. I think he is as good as Crosby, McDavid, and other top centers in the sense that you can play him with less talented wingers (Rust? Cagguila?) and still get top line production out of the entire line and make a 2nd and 3rd line that much more dangerous. This will make finding 1 or 2 suitable wingers easier.

I do acknowledge though that finding good Top-4 dmen in the league right now is very difficult, especially with the game sort of in a state of phase change. I think we should be changing the dialogue when it comes to dmen to similar to starting pitchers baseball: being a middle of the rotation caliber starter is a very big complement.

To "finish" the roster off, and assuming the Canucks do not pick in the lottery, I would open the chequebook for Mark Stone or Erik Karlsson (hell even both). Mark Stone would easily be the 2nd best winger on the team, if not the first. Karlsson needs no introduction. I would go to Nashville to acquire Dante Fabbro, maybe flip them Virtanen. Alternatively, I would be inquiring very intently on the availability of Seguin and/or Benn. Either I would be comfortable expending futures on acquiring.

Core of EP, Boeser, Horvat, Stone, Karlsson; Secondary core of Edler, Tanev, Markstrom, Fabbro, Hutton, Roussel, Sutter (to be upgraded) are competitive. The rest of the roster will shake out over the following 2 or 3 years (or in a deadline deal). The window would now be wide open.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I haven’t read the entire thread but I think that we’re missing a huge core piece still.

Pettersson, Boeser and Horvat is a good trio but we need another elite blue chip prospect to add to that.

I know we have Quinn but I don’t place him in that elite category that Jack is in.

If you look at teams like Tampa or Toronto, it’s Kucherov, Hedman, Point, Vasilevsky and Stamkos, or Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Rielly and Nylander.

Our core 3 is good but 3 is not enough. Even 4 isn’t even enough, and that’s assuming Quinn develops as well as we hope.

If we had another elite young player like Matthew Tkachuk, we might be able to start talking about filling the holes, but as of right now I think our foundation still needs work before we worry about anything else.

 

[Havre]

How are we going to pay for Stone and Karlsson with 17.9m going to Sutter, Beagle, Gudbranson, Roussel and Schaller?

Add 20m+ for Stone and Karlsson.

I just don't see how that would realistically be done.

I try not to think about it too often because it just depresses me, but whenever you start to analyze how to build on that roster going forward (and then I mean 20-21 or even further out) you quite quickly realize it just isn't going to work unless we end up with a bit of a fluke run like Ottawa or Vegas.

Even worse we will be p"%!%"!"! away most of Horvat's prime years. I love Horvat, but the wise thing would be to trade him.

 

[DomY]

How are we going to pay for Stone and Karlsson with 17.9m going to Sutter, Beagle, Gudbranson, Roussel and Schaller?

Add 20m+ for Stone and Karlsson.

I just don't see how that would realistically be done.

I try not to think about it too often because it just depresses me, but whenever you start to analyze how to build on that roster going forward (and then I mean 20-21 or even further out) you quite quickly realize it just isn't going to work unless we end up with a bit of a fluke run like Ottawa or Vegas.

Even worse we will be p"%!%"!"! away most of Horvat's prime years. I love Horvat, but the wise thing would be to trade him.

After July 1 Eriksson's actual money owed drops down to something very palatable, like $9m over 3 years, and his NMC evaporates. He can be moved.

Gudbranson, Sutter, Baertschi, and Schaller are all UFA at the same time as Pettersson, so unless you're planning on signing EP for more than $13M/season, the money there is a wash, even factoring in replacement level salaries for 4 roster players.

I do think Horvat is not untouchable though. Yes, he's a core member of this team, but moveable for a king's ransom (like both of Colorado's 1st picks plus a prospect). That being said, he's probably a guy you find money for as well.

Look, we're a ways away. But at least the pieces are starting to fall into place. And just like how UFAs like Lucic (despite how that worked out) want to go to Edmonton to play with McDavid, they might also want to play with EP.

 

[ZEBROA]

Enough with all the Finnish! Finnish gold, Finnish topprospects, Finish rebuild. I say Swedish the rebuild , with a few more underated swedes.

 

[Havre]

After July 1 Eriksson's actual money owed drops down to something very palatable, like $9m over 3 years, and his NMC evaporates. He can be moved.

Gudbranson, Sutter, Baertschi, and Schaller are all UFA at the same time as Pettersson, so unless you're planning on signing EP for more than $13M/season, the money there is a wash, even factoring in replacement level salaries for 4 roster players.

I do think Horvat is not untouchable though. Yes, he's a core member of this team, but moveable for a king's ransom (like both of Colorado's 1st picks plus a prospect). That being said, he's probably a guy you find money for as well.

Look, we're a ways away. But at least the pieces are starting to fall into place. And just like how UFAs like Lucic (despite how that worked out) want to go to Edmonton to play with McDavid, they might also want to play with EP.

We still need players. Giving EP the money from 4 players leaves us 3 players short.

I don't see any pieces starting to fall into place. I see another Edmonton Oilers "fall into place". And I'm generally speaking a naive optimist when it comes to my sport teams.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Hey look on the bright side - this thread had united almost EVERYONE on the board: tankers, Benning bros, Benning critics...etc.

We all set aside our different opinions and almost unanimously agree on one thing: thinking the rebuild can be finished with one or two overpaid UFA is nothing short of monumental unadulterated lunacy.

I for one am quite happy to be able to agree with PoM on this subject matter~.

This should be the last season to tank. We will have another top 10 pick this year. If we resign Edler and sign a solid Defender as a UFA, with the addition of Hughes, our D will be much better. A UFA like Mark Stone would give us two solid scoring lines. Our B level prospects would have gained pro experience and hopefully be closer to making a jump. Pettersson would have a year under his belt playing centre on N.A. Ice and will be an Elite Superstar to start next season. We have to start trending upwards, we can’t be the Oilers of the past.

 

[y2kcanucks]

To "finish" the roster off, and assuming the Canucks do not pick in the lottery, I would open the chequebook for Mark Stone or Erik Karlsson (hell even both). Mark Stone would easily be the 2nd best winger on the team, if not the first. Karlsson needs no introduction. I would go to Nashville to acquire Dante Fabbro, maybe flip them Virtanen. Alternatively, I would be inquiring very intently on the availability of Seguin and/or Benn. Either I would be comfortable expending futures on acquiring.

Core of EP, Boeser, Horvat, Stone, Karlsson; Secondary core of Edler, Tanev, Markstrom, Fabbro, Hutton, Roussel, Sutter (to be upgraded) are competitive. The rest of the roster will shake out over the following 2 or 3 years (or in a deadline deal). The window would now be wide open.

It only makes sense to ope the cheque book for Karlsson and/or Stone if we could dump Eriksson, Beagle, Sutter, Gudbranson, and Roussel. Stone and Karlsson will likely cost the Canucks $20M. Right now we're paying Eriksson, Beagle, Sutter, Gudbranson, and Roussel $20.3M. I also pencil Boeser in for an $8M extension, and Pettersson for an eventual $10M extension. That's a lot of cap space for 4 players, which is why we really can't afford the bad contracts Benning has saddled this team with.

This is a perfect example of why teams that are actually rebuilding avoid throwing out bloated contracts long-term to marginal players. Because when you're trying to get better and have the opportunity to bid for a quality UFA or two, you don't have the necessary cap space.

Filling out the roster:

Goldobin - Pettersson - Boeser
Baertschi - Horvat - Stone
UFA - UFA - Virtanen
Gaunce - Gaudette - Leivo

UFA (Methot?) - Karlsson
Hughes - Tanev
Hutton - Stecher

Markstrom
Demko

That's a team I could get behind. Still could use an upgrade at LW, and defense lacks prospects (which is why it's so important we can get something for Edler...I really like the idea of going after Fabbro). Damn it would have been nice to have Matthew Tkachuk on this team.

 

[tantalum]

Goldobin - Pettersson - Boeser
Baertschi - Horvat - Stone
UFA - UFA - Virtanen
Gaunce - Gaudette - Leivo

UFA (Methot?) - Karlsson
Hughes - Tanev
Hutton - Stecher

Markstrom
Demko

That's a team I could get behind. Still could use an upgrade at LW, and defense lacks prospects (which is why it's so important we can get something for Edler...I really like the idea of going after Fabbro). Damn it would have been nice to have Matthew Tkachuk on this team.

Certainly....a completely revamped roster is one I can get behind. I just don't think this is the management team to pull it off. If they do I will give them all the kudos in the world.

Still needs work. The LW is weak. Very weak IMO. Blueline would likely need improvements and, as you say, the entire prospect depth needs to improve.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Certainly....a completely revamped roster is one I can get behind. I just don't think this is the management team to pull it off. If they do I will give them all the kudos in the world.

Still needs work. The LW is weak. Very weak IMO. Blueline would likely need improvements and, as you say, the entire prospect depth needs to improve.

A complete roster revamp is very difficult & unlikely due to the contracts handed out to Mediocre players. A starting roster like this is more likely (do agree that LW is weak).


Edler Myers/Stralman
Hughes Tanev
Hutton Stecher
Juolevi Biega
Gubdranson

Goldobin - Pettersson - Boeser
Baertschi - Horvat - Stone
Eriksson - Sutter - Virtanen
Roussel - Beagle - Motte
Gaudette
Dahlen

Out: Pouliot, Del Zotto, Schaller, Granlund
Demoted: Gubdranson

 

[valkynax]

A complete roster revamp is very difficult & unlikely due to the contracts handed out to Mediocre players. A starting roster like this is more likely (do agree that LW is weak).


Edler Myers/Stralman
Hughes Tanev
Hutton Stecher
Juolevi Biega
Gubdranson

Goldobin - Pettersson - Boeser
Baertschi - Horvat - Stone
Eriksson - Sutter - Virtanen
Roussel - Beagle - Motte
Gaudette
Dahlen

Out: Pouliot, Del Zotto, Schaller, Granlund
Demoted: Gubdranson

Again...why are we making the assumption that these UFA's gonna simply land on our laps like kids jumping on mall Santa Claus?

This is the best possible scenario where absolutely NOTHING goes wrong...

 

[tantalum]

A complete roster revamp is very difficult & unlikely due to the contracts handed out to Mediocre players. A starting roster like this is more likely (do agree that LW is weak).


Edler Myers/Stralman
Hughes Tanev
Hutton Stecher
Juolevi Biega
Gubdranson

Goldobin - Pettersson - Boeser
Baertschi - Horvat - Stone
Eriksson - Sutter - Virtanen
Roussel - Beagle - Motte
Gaudette
Dahlen

Out: Pouliot, Del Zotto, Schaller, Granlund
Demoted: Gubdranson

Let's leave aside that the canucks will be hard pressed to attract one big name UFA let alone multiple big name UFAs. Pettersson aside, if I'm Karllson am I joining the Canucks or someone like the Golden Knights?

No doubt that amount of roster churn is extremely difficult, likely beyond ambitious and bordering on impossible. And that's been my entire frustration with this season in a nutshell. The management team has spent all this time putting in place what they felt is the best support system. That's why the long deals for vets. The trading of picks and prospects. It takes time but they achieved that roster churn and here we are with a few really good core pieces that are performing as good as you can expect them to as a collective (probably better) and the support system is a complete dud. That's the reason management should be terminated. Not really for individual trades I feel were bad or giving up future assets but because when you take everything they've done the focus has been on having those support players in place for the kids when they start to perform. Well the kids are performing and the support system is pulling them down. The Benning rebuilt blueline is killing them. The big money players are inconsequential.

As fans we are asking our management to do significant amount of roster turnover to improve the roster. This management team has already shown that they aren't capable of that task. How the hell they get more time is beyond me.

 

[Cupless44]

How are we going to pay for Stone and Karlsson with 17.9m going to Sutter, Beagle, Gudbranson, Roussel and Schaller?

Add 20m+ for Stone and Karlsson.

I just don't see how that would realistically be done.

I try not to think about it too often because it just depresses me, but whenever you start to analyze how to build on that roster going forward (and then I mean 20-21 or even further out) you quite quickly realize it just isn't going to work unless we end up with a bit of a fluke run like Ottawa or Vegas.

Even worse we will be p"%!%"!"! away most of Horvat's prime years. I love Horvat, but the wise thing would be to trade him.

And don't forget planning for the Luongo cap penalty. If he retires with one season left the cap hit for the Canucks is 8 million.

 

[DomY]

It only makes sense to ope the cheque book for Karlsson and/or Stone if we could dump Eriksson, Beagle, Sutter, Gudbranson, and Roussel. Stone and Karlsson will likely cost the Canucks $20M. Right now we're paying Eriksson, Beagle, Sutter, Gudbranson, and Roussel $20.3M. I also pencil Boeser in for an $8M extension, and Pettersson for an eventual $10M extension. That's a lot of cap space for 4 players, which is why we really can't afford the bad contracts Benning has saddled this team with.

This is a perfect example of why teams that are actually rebuilding avoid throwing out bloated contracts long-term to marginal players. Because when you're trying to get better and have the opportunity to bid for a quality UFA or two, you don't have the necessary cap space.

Filling out the roster:

Goldobin - Pettersson - Boeser
Baertschi - Horvat - Stone
UFA - UFA - Virtanen
Gaunce - Gaudette - Leivo

UFA (Methot?) - Karlsson
Hughes - Tanev
Hutton - Stecher

Markstrom
Demko

That's a team I could get behind. Still could use an upgrade at LW, and defense lacks prospects (which is why it's so important we can get something for Edler...I really like the idea of going after Fabbro). Damn it would have been nice to have Matthew Tkachuk on this team.

I get the deals for Sutter and Eriksson and even Gudbranson and Gagner at the time, with the philosophy at the time (ie: I am convinced that ownership wanted to try to win in the Sedin era, not that I agree that was smart) but they are not long term pieces on this roster. Horvat and EP being this good ahead of schedule makes having expensive safety valves like Sutter redundant.

I mentioned in a different post that Gudbranson, Schaller, MDZ, Gagner, Baertschi and Sutter all become free agents the same time as Pettersson is a RFA, so I am not worried about finding an extra $10m for him. You are right though - the lack of prospect depth on defense really hurts us, namely because the cost of a bottom pairing dman in free agency is roughly $3-4m. If Woo, Juolevi, Tryamkin, or Utenen become bottom pairing dmen on this team, that saves us a bit of money. Likewise on LW for Lind, Dahlen, or Madden.

These next couple years in the draft will be very important in terms of developing our own "filler" type players if nothing else. A steady stream of affordable and cost controlled players will make it easier to justify big salaries for big time players. UFAs should be reserved for top end talent to supplement the core, which is why I don't mind going after Karlsson or Stone.

The Goldobins, Baertschis, Erikssons, Mottes and Leivos should be built up and churned if they don't establish themselves as legitimate top 6 players with chemistry with top line players.