Proposal: Finish the Rebuild

lush

@jasonlush
Sep 9, 2008
2,748
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Vancouver
Two things need to happen before you do something like the deal you suggested. The first thing needs some luck and the second some balls.

First: Hughes is established as #1/#2 D

Second: throw Eriksson down a flight of stairs so he goes onto LTIR and quietly retires

Then you have an off season where you spend cap space on a team need as well as trade some futures on another team need.
 

geebaan

7th round busted
Oct 27, 2012
10,180
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We are like a game above .500, and people think the rebuilds done. Alrighty. I’m gonna wait for posts rooted in reality.
 

BerSTUzzi

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
3,224
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Kamloops
Trade Edler for 1st plus....
Sign Edler for 2 year contract to bridge to next D core
Sign Stone
Dump all our garbage and only sign players beyond Stone for 1 to 2 year contracts.
Sit, wait, watch Bo, Petey, Brock, Quinn, Demko form the basis of our core.
Luck out that Woo or Madden or Lockwood become an NHLer...if by a miracle all three do it...realize it is a miracle.
 
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valkynax

The LEEDAR
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We have a stretch of good games after an incredibly bad one, and now we're talking about mortgaging the future before a SINGLE playoff game is played with our young core let alone facing the cup pressure?

Are you kidding me?

I mean EP40 BB6 and BH53 all look great and I'm all for optimism but still...

Are you f***ing kidding me????
 
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bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
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Not everyone else, but "many teams" generally won't include the elite teams that are actually looking to win the cup. For clarification you don't win the cup with a $10m lower effective cap than the other championship tier teams.

Even elite teams have some wasted space, but $14m in bad contracts for several years to come is a lot. When you have even more current bad contracts that were signed you have to wonder about what comes next as well.
Do you have any evdence that any of this is true?
 

bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
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Not everyone else, but "many teams" generally won't include the elite teams that are actually looking to win the cup. For clarification you don't win the cup with a $10m lower effective cap than the other championship tier teams.

Even elite teams have some wasted space, but $14m in bad contracts for several years to come is a lot. When you have even more current bad contracts that were signed you have to wonder about what comes next as well.
The Flames have 19 million in James Neal, Mike Smith, Michael Frolik and Michael Stone, who are far less useful than the players you've listed on the Canucks. The Sabres have 19 million in Kyle Okposo, Vladimir Sobotka, Matt Moulson and Jason Pominville.
 
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Eddy Punch Clock

Jack Adams 2028
Jun 13, 2007
13,126
1,823
Chillbillyville
Our rebuild may have gotten Finnished tonight. :mad:

Not yet ready to stop rebuilding though. I haven't enjoyed this many shiny new toys all at once before and I'm getting greedy.
 

604

Registered User
Nov 1, 2011
7,279
1,486
Taking shortcuts like trading for a 29 year old defenseman when you're still rebuilding usually backfire. Stay patient. When we are close we can make that big trade or signing but hopefully it is for a young player or a free agent that pushes us over the top.
For now, trade what doesn't fit into the teams long term plans for picks.

I'd make the arguement that #1 dmen are generally not available.

Nobody has a plan other than draft and hope to get one.

29 is not old for #1 dmen...it is when value start falling off but they have 5-6 years left which is an eternity in hockey years.

Most guys we draft now will not be impact NHLers prior to Horvat being a UFA, if they make it at all.
 
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Canucks1096

Registered User
Feb 13, 2016
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We are like a game above .500, and people think the rebuilds done. Alrighty. I’m gonna wait for posts rooted in reality.

Some fans think the rebuild didn't start yet. Canucks do have 9 picks in the 2019 draft, so maybe it just started
 
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VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
21,043
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Canucks need to fully embrace the rebuild. Dealing Nilsson was a start, which enables them to recall Demko...next, Del Zotto and Schaller need to go on waivers; Sutter should be asked to waive his NTC; and they need to elevate a couple of more young players from Utica...anybody would be better.

Despite all the rosy hue at the moment, still can't see this team making the playoffs in the West. Lose for Hughes is still alive.
 

forty47seven

Registered User
May 2, 2009
757
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The Flames have 19 million in James Neal, Mike Smith, Michael Frolik and Michael Stone, who are far less useful than the players you've listed on the Canucks. The Sabres have 19 million in Kyle Okposo, Vladimir Sobotka, Matt Moulson and Jason Pominville.

Calgary's a good example of how these contracts can hurt a team. They have a core just entering their prime but are still a few pieces, like a quality starter, away from being a cup favourite. This offseason they have 11 million in cap space to spend on 6 roster spots which includes signing a starting goalie and extending Tkachuk. Forget improving, it's going to be a struggle for them to maintain the status quo with 14 mill still tied up in boat anchors.
 
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PavelBure10

The Russian Rocket
Aug 25, 2009
4,693
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Cash in on Sutter and Gudbranson. Supposedly both players have generated interest in the past. Sutter had all 3 California teams supposedly inquiring about him. Gudbranson just recently had interest too. Collect prospects and draft picks for them. Let Gaudette and Biega get some ice time.

Either make Granlund the 13th forward or trade him.

Trade Eriksson, take half his wage, or buy him out.
 
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bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
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Calgary's a good example of how these contracts can hurt a team. They have a core just entering their prime but are still a few pieces, like a quality starter, away from being a cup favourite. This offseason they have 11 million in cap space to spend on 6 roster spots which includes signing a starting goalie and extending Tkachuk. Forget improving, it's going to be a struggle for them to maintain the status quo with 14 mill still tied up in boat anchors.
You're missing my point. Most playoff teams have similar low-value contracts on the books, and the notion that having those contracts puts the Canucks at a unique disadvantage so as to mimic operating with a cap 10m below that of other teams is patently false. Boston has nearly 9 million tied up in Backes and various buyouts. Montreal spends nearly 17 million on Price, Alzner and Steve Mason's buyout and have 8 million in cap space. The more meaningful variable is the number of young players on cheap deals.
 

bandwagonesque

I eat Kraft Dinner and I vote
Mar 5, 2014
7,097
5,397
Calgary's a good example of how these contracts can hurt a team. They have a core just entering their prime but are still a few pieces, like a quality starter, away from being a cup favourite. This offseason they have 11 million in cap space to spend on 6 roster spots which includes signing a starting goalie and extending Tkachuk. Forget improving, it's going to be a struggle for them to maintain the status quo with 14 mill still tied up in boat anchors.
Also, the Flames are 1st in the west. The idea that any rebuild needs to culminate in several years of top 2-3 contention and is otherwise a failure attributable to poor decisions is absurd.
 

TARS

Registered User
May 3, 2009
2,129
68
Vancouver
This from JPat gives a pretty good look at why we are nowhere close to being finished with the rebuild:

With eight apiece, Pettersson and Brock Boeser have combined to score 16 of the team’s past 39 goals (41%) in 13 games since December 9th. Boeser had a career-high 14 shot attempts against the Habs but was unable to score on any of his six shots on goal. He has launched 25 shots at the net in the past two games in Montreal and Ottawa.

The Canucks will need someone to step up to fill the scoring void left by Pettersson’s absence. Bo Horvat, Jake Virtanen and Loui Eriksson have all gone six games without scoring while Markus Granlund has gone nine since his last goal (an empty-netter) and 17 since last beating a goalie. Nikolay Goldobin, a healthy scratch the past two games, draws back into the line-up but he’s gone 10 without a goal and has just one in his past 17 games.

https://www.tsn.ca/canucks-prepare-...n-1.1236625?tsn-amp&__twitter_impression=true


Despite Horvat being an absolute beast this year and the offence being less of a problem than the D, we stilll have a way to go.
 

604

Registered User
Nov 1, 2011
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Edler - Franchise D (Jones/Petriangelo/Karlsson)
Q. Hughes - Tanev
Hutton - Guddy
Stetcher - Biega

That's a decent D corps that we could build around.

With Edler being 32 and Tanev being 29. There's not much time. Either we work with what we have or we have to look at a complete rebuild of the D which likely means we're not competitive prior to Horvat becoming a UFA. I think Horvat's contract is what puts the time pressure on us becoming competitive.

Last year I asked, "Even if we could magically get Karlsson + Tavares would we even be a playoff team." I think if we could get the same two guys today, the answer would be that we could be a contender. My belief is unfortunately that we are going to let this window go, if that's the case, we likely should maximize our return on guys like Edler + Tanev and the other lesser players like Guddy + Sutter.

In this league, you're either trying to finish last to get a franchise player or you should be trying to win with what you have. Based on Petterson's play, I don't think we're going to be bad enough to build through the draft any more so we're going to have to build through trades and UFA.
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
Juolevi could be better than pieterangelo in 3-4 years

:laugh:

Oh...you were serious?

:shakehead


And in response to this thread...I'd like to see the rebuild actually start first, before we talk about finishing it. Bad teams that end up with good prospects by virtue of being bad aren't rebuilding. They're just bad.
 

vanarchy

May 3, 2013
9,100
8,355
The development of Petterson may have me too excited. It has me thinking the team may be okay up front and just needs a stud franchise dman while Edler and Tanev can still play.

Any thoughts on the team giving up a package, say Madden + Juolevi + DiPietro +2020 1st + 2020 2nd (we obviously can't trade the 2019 1st) + a cap dump for Alex Petriangelo?

Not really sure where value lies, not sure if there is value in our prospects but likely selling high after good WJC for two of them.

It would also be nice to dump some salary so we could go after one of the big UFA forwards like Stone or Panarin.

Seems like the time to do something like this would be during Petterson's ELC.

Edler - Petriangelo
Hughes - Tanev
Hutton - Stetcher

Could be good for years to come.
This is a terrible idea, man. Petriangelo will be at the tail end of his career when this rebuild is complete while most of the kids you're suggesting we trade would be hitting their prime.
 

valkynax

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Edler - Franchise D (Jones/Petriangelo/Karlsson)
Q. Hughes - Tanev
Hutton - Guddy
Stetcher - Biega

That's a decent D corps that we could build around.

With Edler being 32 and Tanev being 29. There's not much time. Either we work with what we have or we have to look at a complete rebuild of the D which likely means we're not competitive prior to Horvat becoming a UFA. I think Horvat's contract is what puts the time pressure on us becoming competitive.

Last year I asked, "Even if we could magically get Karlsson + Tavares would we even be a playoff team." I think if we could get the same two guys today, the answer would be that we could be a contender. My belief is unfortunately that we are going to let this window go, if that's the case, we likely should maximize our return on guys like Edler + Tanev and the other lesser players like Guddy + Sutter.

In this league, you're either trying to finish last to get a franchise player or you should be trying to win with what you have. Based on Petterson's play, I don't think we're going to be bad enough to build through the draft any more so we're going to have to build through trades and UFA.

You consider sacrificing future when the team's near the cup, and just need that extra push. Right now, with EP40 playing like Jesus and NOTHING goes wrong, we're a borderline playoff team. The moment anything fails, the whole team collapses. Edler and Tanev are not in their primes, both players already started to decline. This is not the time to push for cup (laughable idea to do so).

And you speak like these UFA's are drooling, lining up and fighting tooth to nail to come to Vancouver like they gonna get an audience with the f***ing Pope...if we cannot even convince a lumbering moron like Lucic to sign here, what chance if any do we have for Pietrangelo? Or Karlsson? Or Stone?????
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
25,983
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You consider sacrificing future when the team's near the cup, and just need that extra push. Right now, with EP40 playing like Jesus and NOTHING goes wrong, we're a borderline playoff team. The moment anything fails, the whole team collapses. Edler and Tanev are not in their primes, both players already started to decline. This is not the time to push for cup (laughable idea to do so).

And you speak like these UFA's are drooling, lining up and fighting tooth to nail to come to Vancouver like they gonna get an audience with the ****ing Pope...if we cannot even convince a lumbering moron like Lucic to sign here, what chance if any do we have for Pietrangelo? Or Karlsson? Or Stone?????
We're not going to make the playoffs...we've already played too many games...
 
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valkynax

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We're not going to make the playoffs...we've already played too many games...

Sorry I wasn't being too clear. I meant if we play a full season with virtually everything going our way.

Do you think what he proposed is a good idea? I know the team's made some progress, but honestly...I think sacrificing our future right now for imaginary cup run is nothing short of monumental short-slightness and delusional lunacy.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
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Sorry I wasn't being too clear. I meant if we play a full season with virtually everything going our way.

Do you think what he proposed is a good idea? I know the team's made some progress, but honestly...I think sacrificing our future right now for imaginary cup run is nothing short of monumental short-slightness and delusional lunacy.
Agreed...Its not this year..even though dramatic progress will have been made..(what happens at the end of the year when we have EP and Hughes..cant speak for that...?)

A big trade this season would be daft...I'm sure that JB is aware of that ..
 
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