Sounds like he's in good spirits. Nice guy, I wish him the best that life can still give him. He isn't brooding or saying "oh woe is me" or anything like that. Either way I respect him!
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Finding Murph: The sad story of Joe Murphy
- Thread starter bbfan419
- Start date
Sounds like he's in good spirits. Nice guy, I wish him the best that life can still give him. He isn't brooding or saying "oh woe is me" or anything like that. Either way I respect him!
hoss75
Registered User
Excellent post.
It's also worth noting how hypocritical fans are when they complain not enough is being done to protect players, while at the same time not wanting players to retire.
- Jan 29, 2003
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Si Hopkins
Registered User
Fascinating to take a peak at the 1986 entry draft. Bruins got Janney at 13. He probably should have gone top 5.
Has anybody done like a podcast on the lives of people drafted who never went anywhere? You know, like what happened to Staffen Malmqvist who the Bruins took 223rd overall? I might be the only person on earth who would want to listen to that.
Has anybody done like a podcast on the lives of people drafted who never went anywhere? You know, like what happened to Staffen Malmqvist who the Bruins took 223rd overall? I might be the only person on earth who would want to listen to that.
Bmessy
Registered User
I have some sympathy for these past players because they didn't really have such glaring examples of what they would become when they were putting themselves out there every night. Some guys would still have done it, no doubt. What is completely ridiculous is that both the NHL and NFL try to downplay CTE in order to not look bad, yet they are both completely changing their rules to limit head contact. Sleezy. They know it's an issue but won't publicly fess up.
I think it's a fact that we know more now than in the past, and if they just stated that and said they are trying to make it good then alot of these players would understand. But I guess there's no good faith in the land of lawyers and insurance.
I think it's a fact that we know more now than in the past, and if they just stated that and said they are trying to make it good then alot of these players would understand. But I guess there's no good faith in the land of lawyers and insurance.
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A good friend of mine passed away last year and he wanted his brain donated to BU. He had played high school and college football and as he got older he had mood swings that his friends got used to saying that;s just Bruce being Bruce.
Turns out he indeed had CTE.
More than 100 years ago college football was almost abolished because of violence and head injuries. Teddy Roosevelt chaired a committee that recommended widening the field but that was ruled out because of Harvard Stadium which was the first concrete stadium in the world and could not be changed.
So instead the committee made the forward pass legal.
How Harvard Stadium's concrete design changed the rules of football
Eighteen players died in 1905, leading to calls from Harvard President Charles W. Eliot to reform the game or abolish the team, and inspiring then-President Teddy Roosevelt to call a conference to reform the game. A series of innovations and new rules were floated to make the game less injury-prone, including widening the field 40 yards.
Since Harvard's field was hemmed in by a concrete horseshoe, the team proposed instituting the forward pass instead. Other teams of the day, fearful of losing the Harvard program to the rule change and anti-violence crusaders, hastily adopted the pass and other changes, in the name of making the game safer.
Personally, I think the NHL needs to go to the Olympic standard of 200 x 100 to create some more room. Bobby Orr wants to see the red line restored to slow the game down. At some point down the road, both the NHL and NFL are going to get nailed by a jury over injuries and Bettman knows it.
Something has to change.
Turns out he indeed had CTE.
More than 100 years ago college football was almost abolished because of violence and head injuries. Teddy Roosevelt chaired a committee that recommended widening the field but that was ruled out because of Harvard Stadium which was the first concrete stadium in the world and could not be changed.
So instead the committee made the forward pass legal.
How Harvard Stadium's concrete design changed the rules of football
Eighteen players died in 1905, leading to calls from Harvard President Charles W. Eliot to reform the game or abolish the team, and inspiring then-President Teddy Roosevelt to call a conference to reform the game. A series of innovations and new rules were floated to make the game less injury-prone, including widening the field 40 yards.
Since Harvard's field was hemmed in by a concrete horseshoe, the team proposed instituting the forward pass instead. Other teams of the day, fearful of losing the Harvard program to the rule change and anti-violence crusaders, hastily adopted the pass and other changes, in the name of making the game safer.
Personally, I think the NHL needs to go to the Olympic standard of 200 x 100 to create some more room. Bobby Orr wants to see the red line restored to slow the game down. At some point down the road, both the NHL and NFL are going to get nailed by a jury over injuries and Bettman knows it.
Something has to change.
weaponomega
Registered User
These are all short term effects of choices you might make. Do you think about maybe not getting a desk job because 30 years from now you might have debilitating back pain from years of not moving around, or maybe not getting hooked on artificial sweeteners because health problems years down the road?
Players probably knew hey I'll probably get my bell wrung by playing in the NHL, but I'm sure none of them knew years after leaving the NHL years after sustaining a concussion they'd become depressed, drug addicted and suicidal.
Concussion is a serious issue in all contact sports. It has been a huge issue in rugby, especially in recent years with a number of high profile incidents raising awareness. They have been constantly tweaking the rules to try and protect the players head. This coming season they are changing the rule so that no arm can hit an opponent higher than the nipple/armpit line in a tackle. Anything above this will result in either a yellow card (10 mins sin bin) or red (permanently off with an automatic one game suspension) depending on the severity of the contact.
The big issue in rugby was that even after a player was clearly concussed during a game they would still want to play on. This is natural for any sports player high on adrenaline who might initially feel fine after coming to! This is were the responsibility of the medical staff and/or coach comes into play. The coach's priority has too often been to win in circumstances like this and not the well being of his player.
There is zero tolerance to this now in rugby with a few teams being investigated and subsequently fined for not putting the well being of the player first due to either the medical team relaying false information or the coach continuing to play the player regardless of there being clear signs of concussion.
It's easy to say a player should take responsibility of their own body but in the ultra macho world of professional sports a player might be seen as weak or not a team player if he refuses to play especially if a morally corrupt coach or medic is saying he is fine. And don't forget the last thing a player wants to do is not play!
The onus has to lay at the hands of the sports organisation in question to ensure there is a) clear protocols in place to deal with concussion in real time b) an environment is created were concussion is taken seriously c) proper return to play protocols are adhered to and d) serious fines/penalties are given to any team or individual found to be in breach of any of the above.
There can be no excuses anymore when it comes to concussion in any sport. We know now how serious the effects can be long term. You would hope individual players will look after themselves but in a high stakes game were the last thing the player wants to do is leave the game then the coach or medical staff have to step up.
The big issue in rugby was that even after a player was clearly concussed during a game they would still want to play on. This is natural for any sports player high on adrenaline who might initially feel fine after coming to! This is were the responsibility of the medical staff and/or coach comes into play. The coach's priority has too often been to win in circumstances like this and not the well being of his player.
There is zero tolerance to this now in rugby with a few teams being investigated and subsequently fined for not putting the well being of the player first due to either the medical team relaying false information or the coach continuing to play the player regardless of there being clear signs of concussion.
It's easy to say a player should take responsibility of their own body but in the ultra macho world of professional sports a player might be seen as weak or not a team player if he refuses to play especially if a morally corrupt coach or medic is saying he is fine. And don't forget the last thing a player wants to do is not play!
The onus has to lay at the hands of the sports organisation in question to ensure there is a) clear protocols in place to deal with concussion in real time b) an environment is created were concussion is taken seriously c) proper return to play protocols are adhered to and d) serious fines/penalties are given to any team or individual found to be in breach of any of the above.
There can be no excuses anymore when it comes to concussion in any sport. We know now how serious the effects can be long term. You would hope individual players will look after themselves but in a high stakes game were the last thing the player wants to do is leave the game then the coach or medical staff have to step up.
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
how many 16 year old kids in todays world don't know smoking might have long term effects? and how many start smoking anyhow?
how many of us don't know that carrying extra weight might be bad for us... but how many of us are going to hit the gym tonight?
when the boxer steps into the ring for the first time... how many honestly don't know that getting hit in the head might be bad for them?
as for your question... yes I do think about these things. my wife refuses to drink diet pop because shes worried about the effects of the artificial sweetners. people do make decesions based on this stuff
hockey players today are getting involved in class action law suits and saying that no one warned them about this 30 years ago... hell I didn't know about this stuff 30 years ago myself. I bet you didn't. and I bet the league didn't either.
ok... been there done that. if the players can get a lawsuit win... whatever... I don't care...
BUT HERES THE KICKER
today you know about this. today I know. today the league knows. and today there are 100s of young hockey players desperate to start playing in the nhl
everybody knows today and it doesn't change one bit of reality
the players will still choose to play because that's what they will always do. the risk is a known risk. the rewards are a known rewards. these players will with all the knowledge in the world continue to make the same choice
all this... I didn't know garbage... maybe it might apply to a few guys. I mean megatron walked away from his career... barry sanders did... there was that guy in san Francisco.... paul kariya retired early...
we can name a few dozen guys maybe that feel hockey/football are too dangerous and walk away
and we could name 1000s and 1000s this year who are going to play because they don't care about the risks
sorry... but its true
I mean there was no league that ever told these players to take steroids... and yet the players took them anyhow. theres no league that tells the players to hit the club after the game and get drunk... and yet the players do it anyhow.
im sorry, but players have always been willing to take risks that have known harmful effects on them because that's simply what they do. the whole concusion thing is the flavor of the month and comes with huge potential lawsuit settlements. theres a lot of rea$on$ why some down on their luck ex players might want to give this cause celebrity
im not letting the league off the hook... im sure as they slowly learnt about concussions over the last 30 years... they were reluctant to play it up and cause a panic. they probably didn't want to publicize it when they were first learning
but even today... most doctors ive heard speak say that they are still learning. they don't know all the answers yet. there isn't wide spread agreement how it works.
if the doctors themselves still aren't sure and still need to do more studies... how are we expecting the league to be 100% certain about any of it?
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
I think its only the most common sense that the leagues would tweak the rules to protect their stars. car racing changes rules to make it safer. boxing has rules to stop the fight when it gets too violent. hockey itself has passed rules against many types of hits.
theres a lot of money being paid to insurance/to players on the injury list/to their replacements too...
theres probably a billion dollars or more between all the various sports leagues spent against the risk and the reality of injuries each year. some danger must be allowed to continue in many sports or the sport will lose all its appeal to the audience. some sports are only interesting when they are dangerous. but even these dangerous sports will try to make themselves safe for the sake of the talent assets that sell the sport to the ticket buying public
weaponomega
Registered User
Smoking and poor eating habits have had years and years of research - much more than concussions. Concussion research is in its infancy. No one knew 30 years ago that getting a concussion would have the debilitating long term effects that it does.
If the league doesn't believe the risks and long term after affects exist, why have they bothered to try to mitigate head shots, why the concussion protocol?
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
im not sure your point... so I will just clarify my own
yes fat/smoking are well known... and people still do it
and yes concusions are not as well known but my point is that it really doesn't matter. people still willingly do things that are bad for them as evidenced by my example of smoking and overweight and many other examples I could bring up
trying to make the nhl the bad guys because they don't know how bad concusions are... is very flawed. boxers know... and they choose to box. car racers know and they choose to car race. all the knowledge in the world about how bad something is wouldn't stop people doing it
I bet if the roman gladiator games were brought back and the pay was high enough... there would be volunteers to do that too. I mean people go sky diving and bungee jumping for free...
people are very willing to take huge risks. women get silicon implants and we all know that isn't healthy... people don't really care about the risks if the rewards are strong enough
weaponomega
Registered User
My point is they didn't know the risks 30 years ago. They do now. You state that players will still play - I agree. But the same amount of players? Will parents be willing to put their kids in hockey now knowing the risks?
Youth football participation declines as worries mount about concussions, CTE
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
I personally think parents need to make choices for kids... most of us don't let kids play with guns... most of us don't let our kid get a motor cycle... and when a wild animal wanders into the back yard most of us don't let the kid go pet it
as we understand risks we are prone to deny our kids a chance to take these risks. so its understandable that parents would stop kids from playing football the same way they stop kids from fighting bulls
but as the kids get to the age they can make their own choices... I don't feel danger is enough to stop a very large portion of society. we wont all go run with the bulls... but some of us will. every year there are people that run with the bulls. we wont all go down hill sking but every year people hit a tree and end up in a wheel chair for life because they thought the risk was worth it. Im far and away not the most educated person on the planet... but I am aware of these risks
I know the mohammad ali story... its not that hard to find out. I know I wont go box because theres a chance my brain will get scrambled. but then again I am not good enough to make any money at it
would I let mike Tyson punch me in the head for 1.23 for 16 million dollars??? hell yeah I would
there is a price I would risk my health for.
if someone offered me 5 million dollars to go live in jail for 5 years... would I do it? again... I can safely say I would. id give up 5 years of my freedom and risk the hell of jail to provide for my family with that money
the argument keeps going back to players didn't know about concusions 30 years ago, so now they should be allowed to blame the league for an unsafe work enviorment and sue for a lot of money. ultimately the courts will decide. the league will probably pay up because of public opinion goodwill.
but that said... I don't anticipate the nhl will have a hard time finding 720 willing players that will risk more concusions this season... or next... or in 30 years from now either
would some kids be kept from playing? yes...
but will talented athletic 18 year olds say they will rather go sell insurance than take a shot at an nhl career because one job is safer than the other? I don't fear that much... nhl will still attract most of the best hockey players on the planet to come and carve themselves out 10-15 year careers and earn themselves 15-90 million dollars for their trouble
Roll 4 Lines
Pastafarian!
I agree with a lot of your points, but I disagree that "No one" knew the dangers of concussions 30 years ago.
You yourself mentioned Ali. How long ago did Brett Lindros retire? May not be 30 years, but it feels like it.
Research and knowledge have come a long way, but I do think many people have been aware of long-term concussion issues.
That said, you're right that many people are willing to take the risk.
Edit: I may have quoted the wrong poster...sorry!
The money does make you think twice.
Ponder this that Jimmy Hayes has made $2 million dollars more playing hockey than Bobby Orr. Adjusting for inflation Orr has made more but you get the idea.
Prospects who elect to play junior hockey instead of NCAA are gambling they will make the NHL because if they don't with a lack of a solid education they could be looking at a career at Canadian Tire.
I had my bell rung once in high school and I woke up the next day having no clue if we won or lost.
Ponder this that Jimmy Hayes has made $2 million dollars more playing hockey than Bobby Orr. Adjusting for inflation Orr has made more but you get the idea.
Prospects who elect to play junior hockey instead of NCAA are gambling they will make the NHL because if they don't with a lack of a solid education they could be looking at a career at Canadian Tire.
I had my bell rung once in high school and I woke up the next day having no clue if we won or lost.
Their position has little to do with looking bad, ane everything to do with liability. They admit the reality of CTE, they get sued by former players, major.
This is why I detest Bettman & the NHL owners, as well as Roger whatever his name is & the NFL owners. They are like Big Tobacco. They know perfectly well that concussions and CTE are (and have been) a reality. To admit this they would have to pay up. Hence, stonewalling.
Disgusting.
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
even in todays world where you and I know the effects of alcohol... do you still drink? do I?
even in todays world where we can all read the latest conspiracy theories about genetically altered tomatos… do we still buy over the counter tomatos or do we take the time to grow our own or buy at the farmer market?
when we hear about the negative effects of sun tanning... do we cover up or do we still put on the bikini and show our bod at the beach?
its way way way too easy for us to point the finger at big brother and say they are out to get us. even when we know all the details, we still make the same choices. lets suck it up and own our share of the blame too.
I mean the forest catches fire and burns down my home... am I supposed to blame god for it? why did he let this happen? or is there a good chance that it was someone that didn't put out their campfire properly? I guess everyone might be blamed but will that stop me from living near a forest?
I like outdoor living... I will accept the risks. I wont be storing flammable gasoline jugs out in my yard though. common sense precautions against risks are sensible
are you trying to say that nhl or nfl knowingly didn't make common sense precations to make the game safer? seems to me they were insisting on helmets that the players wanted to refuse... were bringing in rules against stick swinging when players were the ones that did the stick swinging... were developing new boards to lesson impacts... and many other innovations to protect their assets {the players}
concusion research was never agreed upon in the early days. a lot of very reputable medical sources did not agree with the early concerns. trying to look back now and say that everyone should have knowing this stuff 20-30 years ago is total nonsense. even 10 years ago, there was still a lot of debate in the medical community
and today? what can be done? what do concerned citizens like you who are up to date on all the latest research think... should be done? whats your suggestions that the nhl isn't following?
do we just outlaw the game because its too dangerous now? tell those 720 volunteer nhl players they cant be trusted to make their own decesions? shut it down because they might get a concusion?
I wonder what everyone expects the nhl to be doing today... other than paying up to these huge class action lawsuits that they older players want to file now that they are out of the game
You ask a number of rhetorical questions which I will bypass.
I would say this:
Do I believe NHL owners & commissioners knew the danger posed by concussions & CTE in the not too distant past? You bet I do. Do I believe they cynically downplayed this phenomena to avoid liability lawsuits? Yes. Do I believe that, bottom line, NHL owners and their stooge Bettman could care less about the health of "their" players? Damn straight.
Rumpy made a valid point: players *do* know the significant health risk they run. They can make a Faustian bargain, running that risk for a chance to play, and get paid, in the NHL.
Such knowledge may indict the innocence of players. This does not exculpate NHL ownership from attempting to deny the effects of concussions/CTE. Or, indeed, that the latter even exists.
We can go round and round about this. I think I see what you're saying; I just think differently.
Bruinaura
Resident Cookie Monster
- Mar 29, 2014
- 46,438
- 90,799
- Jan 29, 2003
- 25,470
- 20,887
PJ Axelsson's career was not mediocre
Now, back to the original discussion....
About 10 goals and 18 assists per year is pretty mediocre...regardless of how good you are defensively.
https://www.tsn.ca/joe-murphy-finds-shelter-in-kenora-motel-1.1186535
KENORA, Ont. – For the moment, Joe Murphy has a roof over his head.
In late August, TSN reported the former National Hockey League star was living homeless in this city of 15,000 near the Ontario-Manitoba border. Murphy said in a follow-up interview a few weeks later that while he had received support from local residents who offered him food, bottled water and other basic needs, he hadn’t heard from anyone in the hockey world.
Murphy said on Thursday that NHL Alumni Association president Glenn Healy and Adam Graves, one of Murphy’s former teammates with the Edmonton Oilers, visited him for a few hours in September.
Healy and Graves declined to comment.
While an effort to place Murphy in an apartment failed, a source told TSN that officials who administer the NHL/NHLPA Emergency Assistance Fund agreed to pay for a room for Murphy in a local motel. A motel employee confirmed that Murphy’s room has been paid up through the end of October.
Whenever the NHL’s Department of Player Safety suspends a player, his forfeited salary is committed to the emergency assistance fund, which has been in existence for approximately 70 years. At least 150 former NHL players and their family members receive monthly help from that fund, a source said.
Officials who help to administer the fund include former NHL players Pat LaFontaine and Mathieu Schneider and NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly.
Murphy is suffering from mental health issues and he said he understands he can’t legally leave the province. Murphy said he faces an assault charge related to an incident that took place in April in a homeless shelter in Sioux Lookout, Ont.
Murphy, who made more than $15 million during his playing career, now lives on an NHL pension that pays him about $1,100 per month. Since he arrived in Kenora in early April, he slept in a local homeless shelter, on the Canadian Tire property, and in the bush along Highway 17, The Trans-Canada Highway.
The NHL has declined to comment on Murphy’s situation.
Joe Murphy’s descent from Stanley Cup champion to homelessness a harrowing story - The Boston Globe
KENORA, Ont. – For the moment, Joe Murphy has a roof over his head.
In late August, TSN reported the former National Hockey League star was living homeless in this city of 15,000 near the Ontario-Manitoba border. Murphy said in a follow-up interview a few weeks later that while he had received support from local residents who offered him food, bottled water and other basic needs, he hadn’t heard from anyone in the hockey world.
Murphy said on Thursday that NHL Alumni Association president Glenn Healy and Adam Graves, one of Murphy’s former teammates with the Edmonton Oilers, visited him for a few hours in September.
Healy and Graves declined to comment.
While an effort to place Murphy in an apartment failed, a source told TSN that officials who administer the NHL/NHLPA Emergency Assistance Fund agreed to pay for a room for Murphy in a local motel. A motel employee confirmed that Murphy’s room has been paid up through the end of October.
Whenever the NHL’s Department of Player Safety suspends a player, his forfeited salary is committed to the emergency assistance fund, which has been in existence for approximately 70 years. At least 150 former NHL players and their family members receive monthly help from that fund, a source said.
Officials who help to administer the fund include former NHL players Pat LaFontaine and Mathieu Schneider and NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly.
Murphy is suffering from mental health issues and he said he understands he can’t legally leave the province. Murphy said he faces an assault charge related to an incident that took place in April in a homeless shelter in Sioux Lookout, Ont.
Murphy, who made more than $15 million during his playing career, now lives on an NHL pension that pays him about $1,100 per month. Since he arrived in Kenora in early April, he slept in a local homeless shelter, on the Canadian Tire property, and in the bush along Highway 17, The Trans-Canada Highway.
The NHL has declined to comment on Murphy’s situation.
Joe Murphy’s descent from Stanley Cup champion to homelessness a harrowing story - The Boston Globe
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
lets say someone tells you that driving fast might lead to more damage from accidents and a greater increase in the likelihood to have accents in the first place... but theres no proof that you would get damaged in an accident or even have one if you drove fast. there are people that drive fast everyday and don't have accidents. there are people who have accidents at high speed and walk away
but lets say that there are people doing studies and most of the results say that its less safe to drive at very high speeds...
and lets say the government doesn't want to spend a lot of money on accident results... maybe the government even values the safety of us drivers... its possible
why would you be shocked that the govement might put in some mitigating rules like speed limits when they have this partial information that seems to point to slower speeds might be safer?
now lets look at nhl where the league markets these players to sell tickets and merchandise. if theres some evidence that the players can get hurt and have their careers cut short by concusions, why wouldn't the league try to stop it?
anyhow your argument sort of goes against the players and is more my argument. im not sure why you directed this question to me. I fully believe the league tried to do its best to stop concusions but they are very hard to stop. I believe the league didn't know all the evidence and thus had a hard time sharing it. I still believe that the doctors are researching this and don't know the answers themselves.
you are saying that the research isn't strong. that's my point. the players are trying to get money because they believe research was held from them. I don't think there was any research that people agreed upon 30 years ago.
and I go one step further... today when everyone knows the research that is out there... I say the players still play anyhow. I say the league is trying to get concusions out of the game, but there are players that are still breaking the rules and creating dangerous situations.
the players are trying to get a lawsuit and blame it all on the league for not telling them... but even when they are told they still play... and they still play reckless and break the rules. it wouldn't have stopped them from playing back then if they were told.
the lawsuit is a joke and should be thrown out... but if the league wanted to help these players {and the union should too} then I think everyone would like that. it would be good public relations. the fans would be happy that the leagues billionare owners were giving these players hazard pay for suffering injuries no one knew about.
I don't believe there should be a lawsuit but I would be fully behind some human compasion
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