Final Team Canada Roster Set

[V for Voodoo]

are you on crack?
.

Are you 12 years old? How about addressing people normally.

Talbot was VERY impressive at camp.
Dixon outplayed Perry as well.
I'm sorry if you think that Perry is god, but they did deserve it more then him. Some others didn't deserve it more then Perry though.

'I think Perry is god'. Forget my question above, it is confirmed.

My post was specifically about Brodziak who I would argue had a better camp of the three.
If you read the thread, it's been discussed. I will live with the decision just fine, doesn't mean i agree with it.

 

[Doomsday Device]

and nearly half of the 12 are Dmen and goaltenders..

Actually 7 of the 12 are forwards, and that's the second most already drafted 1st round forward selections behind 1995 as well.

As a clarification, by "already drafted" I mean players who were drafted previous to playing at the tournament.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If Mario Lemieux can get cut from the Canadian WJC team, me thinks Kyle Brodziak can get cut from the Canadian WJC team.

They can't take everybody.

 

[John Agar]

Coliton should not have made it...

ahead of Brodziak. The defensive specialist role re: Coliton doesn't wash with me as Brodziak is an extremely well balanced player, but with hands. We need to bring puck sense and bury the puck in the net. I don't want to see a bunch of role players skate around like ice-picks, with everyone lauding how hard they work. What matters is the scoreboard in the end. Remember Canada used role players in the Olympics and lost the previous time; they didn't make that mistake again as Gretzky went with skill, skill and more skill with puck sense.

I believe Coliton made it because he was on the under 18 team and they went with their "program" guys; team chemistry and all. Brodziak deserves to be there as his progress and stats are no fluke.

This is not a disaster, just a mis-deed on the integrity of the camp competition. Why not just do what the U.S. does then; though I don't agree with their system; hail to the spirit of real competition.

 

[Jacob]

I'm glad the Penguins are well represented.

 

[Kugel]

Point taken ...but you can't paint entire groups of players with the same brush... that might be true for a few here and there..

Then explain the Staal , Horton cuts from last year ....again not good enough to represent Canada but can play regularly in the NHL?? Poor skating and lazy defensive play could not have been there reason...

i think it was politics or somethign cause horton only got invited because of an injury. that is stupid horton was great and staal shoulda been on that team. i tihnk team canada should do what the great one did in the oylmpics, take the best players. they can adapt. it seemed to work for him. y not take horton as a checker, maybe this year he coulda got loaned to us.

 

[canucksfan]

ahead of Brodziak. The defensive specialist role re: Coliton doesn't wash with me as Brodziak is an extremely well balanced player, but with hands. We need to bring puck sense and bury the puck in the net. I don't want to see a bunch of role players skate around like ice-picks, with everyone lauding how hard they work. What matters is the scoreboard in the end. Remember Canada used role players in the Olympics and lost the previous time; they didn't make that mistake again as Gretzky went with skill, skill and more skill with puck sense.

I believe Coliton made it because he was on the under 18 team and they went with their "program" guys; team chemistry and all. Brodziak deserves to be there as his progress and stats are no fluke.

This is not a disaster, just a mis-deed on the integrity of the camp competition. Why not just do what the U.S. does then; though I don't agree with their system; hail to the spirit of real competition.

Colliton made it ahead of Brodziak because he's a better defensive player than Brodziak and he's better suited for the role as the 13th forward. He can play all of the forward positions something Brodaizk cant do.

Team Canada does not have all role players. Their fourth most likely will be Dixon Crosby and Tambellini. This will be the best fourth line in the tournament. Crosby and Tambellini are two players that can bury the puck. Dixon is a good 2 way player. The only role players that are on the team are Paille, Colliton and Brent. When you pick a team like this you need a checking line.

As far as the Olympics is concerned the team had Peca and Nieuwendyk on the team. They could have picked two more skilled players but they chose to role players because you need to have a shut down line in a tournament like the Olympics and World Juniors.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by The Messenger
and nearly half of the 12 are Dmen and goaltenders..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually 7 of the 12 are forwards, and that's the second most already drafted 1st round forward selections behind 1995 as well.
_____________________________________________________________



Personally I think 5 out of 12 (12-7=5) is as close to "nearly half" as you can get without it being half or chopping people up!

 

[BCCHL inactive]

How would you guys compare this team to Canada's teams previous years?

I must admit that there are quite a few names there that I am unfamiliar with (Josh Gorges, Brent Burns, Tim Brent, Jeremy Colliton, Nigel Dawes, Stephen Dixon).
Is this year's team a bit weaker "on the paper" than in previous years or does it hold up pretty good?
thanks

I can say something on the following...

Josh Gorges: Captain of the 2004 Memorial Cup host Kelowna Rockets. An excellent well-rounded defenceman who is both great in his own end while contributing offensively. There is not much that he cannot do. An excellent choice for Team Canada.

Brent Burns: Minnesota Wild - NHL ...enough said.

Nigel Dawes: He has an amazing goal-scoring talent. It seems that whatever he puts towards the net goes in. Put that together with a good defensive game, and you have a complete forward who possesses amazing puck skills.

The others play in the OHL and QMJHL, so I don't know much about them.

politics yet again
the politics of 2 French Canadian goalies happened again this year too i hope it blows up in their face like last year

Huh? I don't understand. Are you saying politics cost Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers the backup spot......or did you read the report wrong and think that there are 2 French-Canadian goaltenders on this team due to politics?

Your wording is very confusing.

Whoever picks these players screws over the QMJHL every year. Its like they don't want fast skaters that can put the puck in the net.

Give me a break. These fast skaters who can score in the Q are not chosen because they can't play a lick's worth of defence, and will likely get schooled at the international level. And it does not matter how big and solid the defencemen are...without help from the forwards, a team will not win games.

Team Canada has plenty of offence on this year's squad. Just because they aren't Quebecois doesn't mean they can't put points on the board.

I would much rather have scoring forwards who can play some defence as well, than to employ scoring forwards who are afraid to cross their own blue line simply because they play in a high-scoring league.

Getzlaf Carter Burns
Stewart Richards Dawes
Tambellini Crosby Brent
Colliton Paille Talbot

Paillé, the team captain and only returning forward, will not be on the fourth line.

Then explain the Staal , Horton cuts from last year ....again not good enough to represent Canada but can play regularly in the NHL??

When they were cut from Team Canada, they were not good enough to play in the NHL. A year later, they were. Players do improve from one year to the next....it's only common sense.

Your argument for Staal and Horton is moot because of the year's difference between them getting cut from the U20 national team and making the NHL.

 

[Damien]

Just thought I'd throw in my lines.

Tambellini-Crosby-Dawes
Carter-Richards-Burns
Brent-Getzlaf-Stewart
Talbot-Paille-Colliton
Dixon


Phaneuf-Seabrook
Coburn-Belle
Klein-Gorges
Meech



Fleury
Harding

 

[Mess]

When they were cut from Team Canada, they were not good enough to play in the NHL. A year later, they were. Players do improve from one year to the next....it's only common sense.

Your argument for Staal and Horton is moot because of the year's difference between them getting cut from the U20 national team and making the NHL.

With all due respect that is utter crap...

EVERYONE even posters on here knew that Staal and Horton would be high picks in the June draft... So they did not come out of no where like you are suggesting as all CBS and Redline rankings had them both top 10 picks...with some even having Staal #1 possibility..

Second your point about a year difference is well exaggerated... The WJC is in late December early January...and the CHL season is just a few months longer than that before the playoffs begin, where not all players because their teams are eliminated play... Then there is at least 4 months on no CHL hockey over the summer months till training camps start in September .. In actuality it is less than 6 months for the time of the tourney to the June 22 draft...

So your a lot can change over a year is a fairy tail in that there is more time off then on during this time....and are you saying that this is the time this kids suddenly developed over the summer, had growth spurts and grew 5 to 8 inches, put on 40 pounds of muscle and became better skaters, stick handlers etc... Just in time for the June draft where they came out of nowhere to become high draft picks and then go on to become NHL regulars...

That can't be what you are saying is it... If it is..then it contradicts the point that I also made that last year very few 18 year olds made the team and this year the opposite as lots of 18 and younger players, ignoring the 19 year olds that had the extra year of experience that you are stressing....

 

[Mess]

Actually 7 of the 12 are forwards, and that's the second most already drafted 1st round forward selections behind 1995 as well.

As a clarification, by "already drafted" I mean players who were drafted previous to playing at the tournament.

There is no pleasing some people ...If it would have been 6 as you said then it would be half so that would make 5 of 12 nearly 1/2.. by my way of thinking as well..

and could it be that during many tourney's your "already drafted " stat is meaningless because when the team takes 18 year olds and younger players ...they are not eligible to be drafted untill June ...6 months after the Tourney like MA Fleury was, or Staal and Horton could have been had they not been cut....depending on when there birthday is...

So all you are saying is that some times when Team Canada is represented by older or returning players that the number drafted could go up, and also not all years are strong draft years and often the 1st round of the entry draft consists of large portions or Euro players that are not eligible to play for CANADA...

 

[John Agar]

I stick to my guns...

Colliton made it ahead of Brodziak because he's a better defensive player than Brodziak and he's better suited for the role as the 13th forward. He can play all of the forward positions something Brodaizk cant do.

Team Canada does not have all role players. Their fourth most likely will be Dixon Crosby and Tambellini. This will be the best fourth line in the tournament. Crosby and Tambellini are two players that can bury the puck. Dixon is a good 2 way player. The only role players that are on the team are Paille, Colliton and Brent. When you pick a team like this you need a checking line.

As far as the Olympics is concerned the team had Peca and Nieuwendyk on the team. They could have picked two more skilled players but they chose to role players because you need to have a shut down line in a tournament like the Olympics and World Juniors.

Brodziak is a well balanced player - Colliton is overated overall. Brodziak would have done just as well in a checking line role; but with hands.

And uh....Nieuwendyk...is not a role player; he is a well balanced player (two-way), with hands. Please check the NHL career statistics re: Joe Nieuwendyk = scorer;with a plus rating his whole career.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

So your a lot can change over a year is a fairy tail in that there is more time off then on during this time....and are you saying that this is the time this kids suddenly developed over the summer, had growth spurts and grew 5 to 8 inches, put on 40 pounds of muscle and became better skaters, stick handlers etc... Just in time for the June draft where they came out of nowhere to become high draft picks and then go on to become NHL regulars...

Junior hockey players of the stature of what Staal and Horton were (highly touted draft picks) don't take the summer off. They go to different cities to work with different trainers, they go to CSB testing, which has a lot to do with where they go in the draft, they skate on a regular basis......they don't sit around the phones at home eating donuts like one Dustin Byfuglien.

I'm not saying that Staal and Horton got all their skill over the one summer....but if they didn't work their asses off to put a little more muscle on, hone their skills on a regular basis, etc...after their junior season ended....they wouldn't have gone as high as they did in the draft.

They were NHL-ready after their first NHL training camps said so.....they were not NHL-ready at the 2003 Canadian U20 selection camp.

That can't be what you are saying is it... If it is..then it contradicts the point that I also made that last year very few 18 year olds made the team and this year the opposite as lots of 18 and younger players, ignoring the 19 year olds that had the extra year of experience that you are stressing....

Those 19 year-olds with the extra experience were the returnees who had a year of World U20 Championship experience....this year, there were only three of them, and one is gone with an injury. The best players period made the team this year. Next year, these 18 year-olds from this team will get every opportunity over an 18 year-old with no experience....no matter when CSB says they will get drafted.

 

[PEli*]

Let's not throw around accusations of bias when you're defending two players from the Q, Please.

Durochers is familiar with guys like Dixon and Talbot because they play in the Q, that much is fairly obvious. Brodziak is a player who has received very little exposure and probably was one of the lesser known players at camp, and he suffered because of it despite a performance that was worthy of making the team ahead of several players (including the two i targeted). I think it was a poor decision made based on familiarity, and I did not say it was a conspiracy to select Q players, it was simply a poor decision. I'll live with it, I don't have to agree with it. Fair enough?

Sorry for going off.

Defending these two guys is fair. Whether they're Q players or not, what you said about Derochers is unfair. If Stan Butler was coaching and the two guys that made it were W players and somebody said something like you said, I'd still feel the same way.

There are always poor or questionable decisions made about players making the team. That's just a part of the WJC camp. There are so many deserving players and only so many roster spots. Was I happy when Pascal LeClaire was passed up for Alex Auld one year? No. I, like you, lived with it but didn't agree with it.

 

[Doomsday Device]

There is no pleasing some people ...If it would have been 6 as you said then it would be half so that would make 5 of 12 nearly 1/2.. by my way of thinking as well..

and could it be that during many tourney's your "already drafted " stat is meaningless because when the team takes 18 year olds and younger players ...they are not eligible to be drafted untill June ...6 months after the Tourney like MA Fleury was, or Staal and Horton could have been had they not been cut....depending on when there birthday is...

So all you are saying is that some times when Team Canada is represented by older or returning players that the number drafted could go up, and also not all years are strong draft years and often the 1st round of the entry draft consists of large portions or Euro players that are not eligible to play for CANADA...

I pointed out that there were 7 forwards because in saying half were defenceman it seemed that you were implying that they were lacking at the forward position, which they aren't.

I also realize that there are multiple factors that play into the validity of the stat, including the fact that some guys are drafted largely on potential without much production. But, considering that last years draft year was considered to be extremely strong and 11 of these 12 players were drafted last year, this should indicate a fairly high talent level.

Anyways, I threw this stat out mostly for interest's sake not as a be all or end all.

 

[Mess]

Junior hockey players of the stature of what Staal and Horton were (highly touted draft picks) don't take the summer off. They go to different cities to work with different trainers, they go to CSB testing, which has a lot to do with where they go in the draft, they skate on a regular basis......they don't sit around the phones at home eating donuts like one Dustin Byfuglien.

I'm not saying that Staal and Horton got all their skill over the one summer....but if they didn't work their asses off to put a little more muscle on, hone their skills on a regular basis, etc...after their junior season ended....they wouldn't have gone as high as they did in the draft.

They were NHL-ready after their first NHL training camps said so.....they were not NHL-ready at the 2003 Canadian U20 selection camp..

Sure I am not disagreeing ..that they worked on improving themselves for the NHL...but most of that happened after they where drafted in June, not before... between the CHL playoffs ending and the June entry draft is not alot of time that they suddenly got drafted higher than they would have otherwise... They went 2 & 3 in the draft afterall..

but the point was they where cut from the WJC team with players their equals that where projected as high first round picks..The team chose smaller less physical players like Wellwood etc over them...

I just think its a no brainer and players like Staal, Horton, Coburn should have made the CANADA team... other countries simply select the team..Canada has a tryout camp and then regardless of their performance over their whole CHL career ...they base the selection on a pair of intra squad games and 2 UOA exhibition games... If a Junior star player has a bad couple of days he is cut from the team...We are lucky that MA Fleury had a good couple of days otherwise last year top 3 drafted players could have been cut, and PM Bouchard didn't have a good selection camp last year, but they just couldn't cut a player and send him back to the NHL...and that to me is why I am questioning the selection committee, when even enthusiastic posters on HF would have had all 3 (Staal, Horton, Coburn) on the team...the only factor to consider was that Horton was recovering from a broken Jaw at the time and really wasn't himself yet...but any other factor should have been irrelevant..IMO

You also mentioned defensive ablilities in an earlier post about Locke..yet Russia takes players like Kovalchuk and we know he has no defense either...

Maybe this is one of the reasons that Canada has not won gold in past years????

 

[moosefan]

Sure I am not disagreeing ..that they worked on improving themselves for the NHL...but most of that happened after they where drafted in June, not before... between the CHL playoffs ending and the June entry draft is not alot of time that they suddenly got drafted higher than they would have otherwise... They went 2 & 3 in the draft afterall..

but the point was they where cut from the WJC team with players their equals that where projected as high first round picks..The team chose smaller less physical players like Wellwood etc over them...

I just think its a no brainer and players like Staal, Horton, Coburn should have made the CANADA team... other countries simply select the team..Canada has a tryout camp and then regardless of their performance over their whole CHL career ...they base the selection on a pair of intra squad games and 2 UOA exhibition games... If a Junior star player has a bad couple of days he is cut from the team...We are lucky that MA Fleury had a good couple of days otherwise last year top 3 drafted players could have been cut, and PM Bouchard didn't have a good selection camp last year, but they just couldn't cut a player and send him back to the NHL...and that to me is why I am questioning the selection committee, when even enthusiastic posters on HF would have had all 3 (Staal, Horton, Coburn) on the team...the only factor to consider was that Horton was recovering from a broken Jaw at the time and really wasn't himself yet...but any other factor should have been irrelevant..IMO

You also mentioned defensive ablilities in an earlier post about Locke..yet Russia takes players like Kovalchuk and we know he has no defense either...

Maybe this is one of the reasons that Canada has not won gold in past years????

I agree that Canada should stop bringing all role players over and try bringing their most skilled players. Last year I was at the World Junior and the SUmmer and Winter camps here in Halifax and Eric Staal did nothing but impress and he never made the team, Locke was great in the offensive zone as well but he got cut, Braydon Coburn last year should have made the team by far but he was cut as well. I find Canada does not take the best players, their selections consist of age, two way play and overall strength. Though I do not agree with you saying Horton should have been on the team last year, he was maybe the worst player on the ice in the Winter Camp.

 

[Mess]

I agree that Canada should stop bringing all role players over and try bringing their most skilled players. Last year I was at the World Junior and the SUmmer and Winter camps here in Halifax and Eric Staal did nothing but impress and he never made the team, Locke was great in the offensive zone as well but he got cut, Braydon Coburn last year should have made the team by far but he was cut as well. I find Canada does not take the best players, their selections consist of age, two way play and overall strength. Though I do not agree with you saying Horton should have been on the team last year, he was maybe the worst player on the ice in the Winter Camp.

Right thats all I am saying that these role players are not working and they should take skill instead.. Its seems MORONIC to me that HIGHLY Skilled and either CBS ranked or drafted kids by the NHL should be AUTOMATIC's.. No offense intended but Jeremy Colliton types are not going to be the reason should Team Canada win...and CHL players of the year should be there instead...

and in regards to Horton I did qualify my response by saying recovering from an injury and not back to 100 % mentally and physically and therefor if excluded is understandable..

just like this year....Ian White was not healthy and even though the unwritten rule of.... if you played last year you are guaranteed a spot... There are lots of good young dmen to chose from and if he is not healthy then so be it...If they would have cut a more deserving player this year just to make room for White who may infact not even be ready for the tourney I would have been annoyed as well...