Final Fantasy VII Remake - OFFICIALLY RELEASED!! (No Spoilers)

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Do Make Say Think

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Also I'm not sure spending 40 hours in Midgar makes a lot of sense, they are going to have to stretch the story very, very thin or, add sidestories that won't matter and/or won't resonate because they will feel tacked on.

Then there is the fact that if this takes as long as we all assume it will, the difference in visuals between the first and the final part risk being a bit jarring.

I know I'm more skeptical than most pf you but there is so, so much that could go wrong... With Squeenix at the helm, it is hard for me to be optimistic.

I do like how combat looks so far though, that is a very good sign
 

Commander Clueless

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I guess I have the blessing (and the curse) of never having played the original, so it all looks new and interesting to me. :laugh:
 

Shareefruck

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Also I'm not sure spending 40 hours in Midgar makes a lot of sense, they are going to have to stretch the story very, very thin or, add sidestories that won't matter and/or won't resonate because they will feel tacked on.

Then there is the fact that if this takes as long as we all assume it will, the difference in visuals between the first and the final part risk being a bit jarring.

I know I'm more skeptical than most pf you but there is so, so much that could go wrong... With Squeenix at the helm, it is hard for me to be optimistic.

I do like how combat looks so far though, that is a very good sign
If I'm being optimistic, I would hope that the story isn't what fills up the majority of that forty hours and will be touched up but remain very similar in its primary structure (with maybe a bit more development of the tension between Avalanche and Shinra). Adding entirely new story arcs/focal points would be a complete disaster, IMO. If they go the latter route, I'm pessimistically expecting not much better than Kingdom Hearts level storytelling, personally.

I'm crossing my fingers that the game is forty hours because the now deeper and more involved gameplay (which looks promising) has become much more of the focus. I mean, just look at the length of those boss fights.

The original Midgar section is only 5-10 hours maximum because for the most part, you're just moving from story beat to story beat and the battle is an afterthought. If the structure for this game is such that the story beats are just strong bookends for meaningful gameplay..... I think that could potentially work. (obviously the gameplay won't be Sekiro level, but that type of delivery I could maybe be optimistic about)

Probably unlikely though.
 
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Commander Clueless

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You've never played Final Fantasy VII? Really?

Not only that, I've never really played a FF game at all. I have played a few hours of FFXV, but didn't really like it.

I was primarily a PC gamer growing up. We didn't have a console until I got a small summer job and bought an N64 for myself. Didn't own a PlayStation until the PS3.

Never played a mainstream Mario game, either. :laugh:
 

RandV

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Still not really clear on the game time thing. I guess you could play straight through the original FFVII in 40 hours? Typically though the game offers other things to do and your play through is going to be more 50-70 hours. RPG's typically have two time markers, the time to play through the main quest, and the time to 'do everything'.

I guess with part 1 in Midgard they could make it a pretty clear 40 hour linear playthrough with no extra's, but if they're talking about every episode being the length of a 'full game' once you leave Midgard is where it starts becoming a bit more ambiguous.
 

Do Make Say Think

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I really struggle to come up with ways to make Midgar last 40 hours without making it feel bloated.

We shall see but so often remakes should have simply been new games... I know people can never get enough nostalgia but it hard for me not to think that this could be even better if it had a new story and a new cast rather than be tied down to a 20 year old story.

I'd be much, much more interested in this if it was FFXVI honestly.
 
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Shareefruck

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I really struggle to come up with ways to make Midgar last 40 hours without making it feel bloated.

We shall see but so often remakes should have simply been new games... I know people can never get enough nostalgia but it hard for me not to think that this could be even better if it had a new story and a new cast rather than be tied down to a 20 year old story.

I'd be much, much more interested in this if it was FFXVI honestly.
I would completely agree if you're just saying that it's always better for companies to make new games from scratch rather than expanding on an existing brand (that said, I can think of exceptions). Doubly so if the company is actually capable of doing something new that's just as good.

With something like this, it's more of a practical benefit than a nostalgic benefit for me, though. I don't think Square Enix is capable of imagining/conceiving of anything that's even a fraction as good as that twenty year old story anymore (or anything from their prime from FFIV to FFIX, really), and if they made a new game, it would likely only be as good as FFXIII or FFXV, which were absolutely dreadful. They're bad at it now, so maybe it's better if they have training wheels on.

As far as respectful and tasteful remakes go, I'm 100% onboard with the idea of fixing all the superficial imperfections of classics so that they're as good/refined as humanly possible (especially when they're massively flawed yet inspired the way that FFVII is). If for no other reason than to fully take advantage of the foundation that made it special and give it the treatment that it deserves, with the benefit of hindsight.

It's so rare that this happens successfully that maybe it ultimately isn't worth it though, I can give you that. Still though, I don't care about novelty and I don't care about sentimental manipulation. I just want whatever would create the tightest and most worthwhile experience. If you can do it by creating a new game (next to impossible with Square Enix), you should do it, and if you can do it by modernizing a classic (still doubtful but much more plausible with Square Enix), you should do it.
 
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Papa Francouz

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I'm not exactly a Final Fantasy expert (or even a player, really), but didn't X also use that X-2 structure?

Yes, and both of the X games were just as crap as the XIII games.

You've never played Final Fantasy VII? Really?

I'm a big RPG guy, and I've never played VII, either. Going back to the original now would only highlight the advances in technology since its initial release, and I have to imagine that would be distracting. This remake is my shot to play through it for the first time.
 

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Yes, and both of the X games were just as crap as the XIII games.



I'm a big RPG guy, and I've never played VII, either. Going back to the original now would only highlight the advances in technology since its initial release, and I have to imagine that would be distracting. This remake is my shot to play through it for the first time.

It's a matter of opinion. Sometimes I recommend playing a remake instead of the original (Dragon Quest I, for example) but usually I'd say that playing the original first is what I'd recommend and in this case 1997-era technology doesn't significantly impair the gaming experience IMO.
 

Papa Francouz

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It's a matter of opinion. Sometimes I recommend playing a remake instead of the original (Dragon Quest I, for example) but usually I'd say that playing the original first is what I'd recommend and in this case 1997-era technology doesn't significantly impair the gaming experience IMO.
I'll take your word for it in this case. I've got it downloaded on my PC, but didn't plan on playing it until I made it through a good chunk of my backlog. With the remake coming out, I figured I would never play the original, but I might change that if I get some extra time.
 

Jovavic

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I would recommend playing the PS1 FFs over something like DQ7 or Xenogears if you're basing it on technology because the two aforementioned games looked like shit in their time with the 3D backgrounds, I can't imagine what they look like now. In this instance, the 2D paintingesque backgrounds helped those three games.
 

RandV

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I would recommend playing the PS1 FFs over something like DQ7 or Xenogears if you're basing it on technology because the two aforementioned games looked like **** in their time with the 3D backgrounds, I can't imagine what they look like now. In this instance, the 2D paintingesque backgrounds helped those three games.

Feels like odd games to pick here. DQ7 you could rotate the camera but otherwise it was all pixel graphics. Xenogears used more 3d but the base characters were still pixels/sprite which have more of a classic look and age much better than the blocky FFVII.

People will focus on different things but personally what I find stands out from that era the 3 FF games are among the biggest offenders - wasting time with battle animations. In the pixel JRPG's while earlier ones could have their own time wasters in slow or excessive text displays generally an enemy or character attacks it will flash a skill name on the screen the attacker will flash there's a quick effect animation imposed over the target(s) and that's it. Higher end special attacks may have a bit more, but still would be short and brief. When the games moved to 3D models on PS1, it gave the creators the options to full animate all attacks - and they got carried away over doing it because they could without thinking if they should.

Case in point:


FFVI

vs


FFVII

It was very cool when it first came out but they can start to drag after seeing it the first few times and now it just feels really dated because it's just poor quality 3D animation.

Of course some re-releases on steam and the like may give you the option to speed up or skip battle animations. But otherwise if you're talking about playing classic PS1 era JRPG's but worried about it seeming dated I'd shy away from the FF's and go more with games with better gameplay flow like Suikoden, Valkyrie Profile, Grandia, or the already mentioned Xenogears. Of course Dragon Quest has always down their classic take so if you're fine with that then nothing wrong with DQ7 either.
 

Jovavic

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I picked those two because even back then I found them to be very ugly whereas for FF games, they are on PS1, of course they're going to be blocky...and games like Suikoden looked best to me.
 

Big McLargehuge

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Xenogears would have been amazing had the second disk involved just about any gameplay, rather than a mind-numbing amount of exposition dumps that practically turned it into a graphic novel.
 
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guinness

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Not only that, I've never really played a FF game at all. I have played a few hours of FFXV, but didn't really like it.

I was primarily a PC gamer growing up. We didn't have a console until I got a small summer job and bought an N64 for myself. Didn't own a PlayStation until the PS3.

Never played a mainstream Mario game, either. :laugh:

*shocked Pikachu*

Although I guess I'm in a similar, but opposite boat, when I read people wax poetic about the Amiga and the Commodore 64 games. Although TBH, nostalgia is simply a bad trip for me, the games just don't grab me much anymore, and a remake of FF VII wouldn't be the same as teenage me plugging in time in front of the little CRT in my bedroom with the original, and I have no desire to play or even emulate my PS; the 3d graphics just look like crap now.

I don't even remember what the story in FF VII was, I think one of the main characters was killed, and another went rogue, but most of the stories are so generic now, I could be confusing it with another.
 

RandV

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Xenogears would have been amazing had the second disk involved just about any gameplay, rather than a mind-numbing amount of exposition dumps that practically turned it into a graphic novel.

I couldn't tell when I originally played it when I was younger but replaying the game this past decade ('legally' this time on a PSP!) it was blatantly obvious that they simply ran out of time/budget and just had to stitch together the few random pieces they had created together - a boss fight here, a portion of a level there, etc, to get you to the ending. Prior to that everything was sorted nicely into a detailed "chapter" structure, and you can kind of tell on the world map at the end the empty places where a proper story chapter should have taken place.

To it's credit though if you look past that short coming it's one of the few JRPG's where the story keeps young in suspense right to the very end. For me normally having played so many JRPG's over the years it seems more often than not I get to a point near the end where you know how it's going to turn out and there's nothing left to discover so all that's left is a grind to the finish... which begins to feel like a chore so I lose interest and never actually finishing the game.
 

Fixxer

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Feels like odd games to pick here. DQ7 you could rotate the camera but otherwise it was all pixel graphics. Xenogears used more 3d but the base characters were still pixels/sprite which have more of a classic look and age much better than the blocky FFVII.

People will focus on different things but personally what I find stands out from that era the 3 FF games are among the biggest offenders - wasting time with battle animations. In the pixel JRPG's while earlier ones could have their own time wasters in slow or excessive text displays generally an enemy or character attacks it will flash a skill name on the screen the attacker will flash there's a quick effect animation imposed over the target(s) and that's it. Higher end special attacks may have a bit more, but still would be short and brief. When the games moved to 3D models on PS1, it gave the creators the options to full animate all attacks - and they got carried away over doing it because they could without thinking if they should.

Case in point:


FFVI

vs


FFVII

It was very cool when it first came out but they can start to drag after seeing it the first few times and now it just feels really dated because it's just poor quality 3D animation.

Of course some re-releases on steam and the like may give you the option to speed up or skip battle animations. But otherwise if you're talking about playing classic PS1 era JRPG's but worried about it seeming dated I'd shy away from the FF's and go more with games with better gameplay flow like Suikoden, Valkyrie Profile, Grandia, or the already mentioned Xenogears. Of course Dragon Quest has always down their classic take so if you're fine with that then nothing wrong with DQ7 either.


FF VIII was guilty of that too. I don't know if you mean (flash) vs. (damage dealt) but calling the GF is not only long, but once they are summoned, it gets long. That was the last FF I played and the first I didn't complete, but I can tell Ifrit and I believe Shiva took quite some time, so I expect it's the same or longer with future GF acquired after.
I checked and the animations are about 20 seconds long.
 

Shareefruck

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So apparently they just aired a seven minute nostalgia-heavy minimal-game-footage commercial of it that is now the longest commercial to ever air in Japan.


Honestly, I found it pretty cheesy.
 
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Gardner McKay

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So apparently they just aired a seven minute nostalgia-heavy minimal-game-footage commercial of it that is now the longest commercial to ever air in Japan.


Honestly, I found it pretty cheesy.


While I would agree it was cheesy, I don't know enough about Japanese culture to know if something like this would be well received or not. It did hit me right in the nostalgia feels though...
 

Shareefruck

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While I would agree it was cheesy, I don't know enough about Japanese culture to know if something like this would be well received or not. It did hit me right in the nostalgia feels though...
Yep, but in a completely manipulative Hallmark commercial kind of way that I can entirely do without, personally.

Not that we should really expect anything more than that out of a marketing campaign, but the ambitiousness of the length had me fooled for a bit.
 

Shareefruck

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There are three things about the game's story that are pivotal to me and that I'm dreading that they'll probably **** up.

1. Mentioned a billion times already, but the way that Sephiroth's presence was tastefully withheld as his mystique builds and a trail of blood and bread crumbs is left behind in the original was masterful, and they've already somewhat compromised that by having him show up prominently early flashbacks.

2. There was a very cool and subtle element to Cloud's personality and subsequent reveal that was heavily implied but could have easily been lost in translation for most people who played it. Cloud starts off as an obnoxious Clint-Eastwood-esque cool-guy, and you think that the game just lacks self awareness about how eye-roll-y he comes across, but after it's revealed that he was just faking it to make it the whole time, it becomes apparent that pretty much everyone thought he was just a try-hard idiot who weirded them out with his mannerisms rather than thought he was legitimately cool in any way. Instead of him being Clint Eastwood, it's more like Tom Holland trying to pass himself off as Clint Eastwood, and then accepting that he's a complete dork by the end of the game. That's what the whole "Let's mosey!" exchange was all about. I hope they keep that aspect and fear that they won't.

3. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm somewhat pessimistic that they're going to screw up that ambiguous ending (they've already done it once before with the whole compilation of games that negated everything). There are thematic ideas/allegories that are represented in the game and the way that they jockey for space at the end is one of the more artful and often misunderstood things in the game. That whole final section is supposed to be about both Holy and Weapon functioning as the planet's white blood cells that identify and attack whatever poses the greatest threat to it. The surprising twist is that both identify Shinra's long-standing environmental damage (and potentially humankind as a whole) to be greater threats to the planet than either Sephiroth or Meteor. Holy ends up helping Meteor destroy Midgar instead of saving everyone, leaving the lifestream (humanity) to resist their own fate. The planet lives on, but it should remain ambiguous if humankind was wiped out as a result of what they've done to the planet. The sound of children laughing at the end is meant to hint at the glimmer of hope that they were given a second chance. Sakaguchi isn't exactly Shakespeare with this kind of thing, but it works perfectly in its own way. I feel like a lot of that went over people's heads at the time, and if it gets thrown away in favor of the cheesy crowd-pleasing "where is everyone now?" 80s ending montage that everyone expected instead, that's going to be the biggest deal-breaker of all for me.
 
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